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  #11  
Old 07-07-2010, 01:13 PM
Wizard24 Wizard24 is offline
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Originally Posted by Commander View Post
Fair enough, but I wouldn't consider something fundamental doctrine unless there was Scriptural backing for it.
Such as Sunday worship, heaven or hell (eternal life in a fiery d*mnation) once you die, the Trinity? These are not scriptually backed.
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"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." - Galations 5:22-23
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  #12  
Old 07-29-2010, 12:18 PM
alganubi alganubi is offline
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Originally Posted by xdisciplex View Post
1) How do you determine biblical truth? Do you ever come to a point where you can really say that you are absolutely confident that you truly understand what the bible says regarding important topics such as:...
Maybe one good question is where do you start looking for biblical truth?

When you want clear water, will you find it at the end of the river? or will you find it at the spring, at the first point where truth issues forth?
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  #13  
Old 07-31-2010, 12:12 AM
Chance Cater Chance Cater is offline
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Originally Posted by Wizard24 View Post
Such as Sunday worship, heaven or hell (eternal life in a fiery d*mnation) once you die, the Trinity? These are not scriptually backed.
Trinity-
Matthew 28:18-20 (New International Version)
18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Heaven or Hell-
Revelation 21:1-8 (New International Version)
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
5He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."

6He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
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  #14  
Old 07-31-2010, 06:44 AM
alganubi alganubi is offline
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Originally Posted by xdisciplex View Post

1) How do you determine biblical truth? Do you ever come to a point where you can really say that you are absolutely confident that you truly understand what the bible says regarding important topics...
It is hard to determine biblical truth by yourself. You'll end pufffed-up. Everybody needs teachers and mentors. The Almighty simply leads us to the right people on the right time for our specific needs.

Quote:
I am no scholar! How shall I, even if I think the bible says A, ever be sure that I am not missing something and that the bible actually says B?
How shall I ever trust that I understand the bible?
You will gradually have a grasp on the bible truth, if you stay on this SANCTUARY SECTION threads.
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  #15  
Old 08-24-2010, 02:04 PM
Wizard24 Wizard24 is offline
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Originally Posted by Chance Cater View Post
Trinity-
Matthew 28:18-20 (New International Version)
18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
Just because God the Father and Christ the Son are two separate beings does not mean that the Holy Spirit is a separate and distinct being as well. It is a thing. More specifically it is the power of God, not a 3rd personage. I can ask you to be a good person in the name of world peace, but is world peace a person? The Supremes asked listeners to “Stop in the Name of Love”. Was Love a person that they were singing about? Absolutely not.

I think this scripture can be explained by first understanding 2 points.

#1 – Jesus Christ was begotten of the Holy Spirit. In Matthew 1:20 we learn of Mary, “that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit”. So right away we see that Jesus was begotten by the Holy Spirit, however, this might lead some to believe that the Holy Spirit is a person. So let’s look at the account in Luke. In chapter 1 the archangel Gabriel appeared to Mary and told her that she was to give birth to a son whom she should name Jesus. When questioned how this would be since Mary had not slept with any man, “And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” (Luke 1:35) The Holy Spirit, the very power of God, was to come upon Mary, meaning that Christ was to be begotten by the Holy Spirit. Therefore if Christ was begotten of the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is a 3rd distinct being, that would make the Holy Spirit Christ’s father, not God. However the New Testament is literally jam-packed with scriptures attesting to the fact that God if Christ’s father, including Luke 1:35 which concludes that Christ, “shall be called the Son of God.” Jesus Christ was the Son of God the Father. The Father begat Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit.

#2 – Converted Christians are also begotten of the Holy Spirit. In Ephesians 1:13 Paul writes that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit after we believe and are baptized. He then goes on to write of the Holy Spirit, “Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.” It is by the Holy Spirit that God will resurrect His firstfruits upon Christ’s return. It is the earnest, or down payment that we get until we receive our inheritance at that time. It is the gift of the Holy Spirit that signifies God’s people.

Now in grasping these 2 points we can look back at the scripture you quoted with better understanding. We are reconciled to God through the death of Jesus Christ (Rom 5:10). God brings us to and grants us repentance (Rom 2:4), after which we are baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). It is the Spirit that actually begats us as sons of God (Rom 8:9-17). As the begetting agent that comes from God, the Holy Spirit is the earnest or down payment of our salvation. This is why we are to be baptized, as Christ instructed, “in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” (Mat 28:19).
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"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." - Matthew 24:35

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." - Galations 5:22-23
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  #16  
Old 08-24-2010, 02:21 PM
Wizard24 Wizard24 is offline
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Originally Posted by Chance Cater View Post
Heaven or Hell-
Revelation 21:1-8 (New International Version)
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
5He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."

6He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
I’m not sure why you chose this scripture to support the existence of an eternal life in a fiery d*mnation of hell since the word hell does not appear in it. However verse 8 is quite clear that the lake of fire will bring the “second death”. First these people will die, then they will be resurrected to go into the lake of fire and die again (this time forever). In fact this scripture actually disproves the eternal life in hell belief.
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"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." - Matthew 24:35

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." - Galations 5:22-23
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  #17  
Old 09-06-2010, 06:17 AM
psaturn psaturn is offline
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this is to respond to xdisciplex. The best way I can answer you according to my experience is that true Christianity is really a relationship with Christ and it is living and ongoing. Meaning that God reveals to you regularly His character and will to you.

Jesus promised that His sheep shall hear His voice and be able to recognize Him.

So combining both the reading and hearing the Word and then God personally speaking to you, He will not lead you astray unless you are willfully listening to other voices.

Scriptures are bases on which to judge whether the voice you hear is from the Lord or not.

God's character does not change and so knowing what He is like in the Scriptures help you determine that you are hearing from Him.
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  #18  
Old 03-06-2011, 08:41 PM
victorsteven victorsteven is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander View Post
Fair enough, but I wouldn't consider something fundamental doctrine unless there was Scriptural backing for it.
All really great advice and wisdom, let me add however ,
faith is not a denomination,rather it is what I have in my relationship with God.
I can't stress enough that there has to be a personal relationship with God.

You want it plain and clear?
Take it to God pray and believe.
Jesus said if you'd do the sayings and follow after him he'd make the way clear and that HE and God would reveal themselves to you....

Jhn 8:31 ¶ Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed;

Jhn 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Continue in my word , be a disciple, believe and trust in him and you SHALL know the truth.

In the book of 1 John there are plenty of scriptures that tell how we know what we know in the Lord.
1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

The scriptures teach us that the anointing we have because of our relationship with our father that teaches us all things. We have a guide into all truth, the Holy Spirit.

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Do you have this kind of relationship with God? It's a pity that people are not taught and disciple d properly.So many people twist, turn and minimise the scripture to whatever end they have have in mind. The truth is there for the hungry heart it's too bad that the "tares must grow with the wheat" but so it is.

When a group departs from the God designed guide as to how this life is to be lived out you have all the endless discussions and arguments that come out from people whose motives are not exactly for their Masters kingdom but theirs .
If you truly want to serve God in all truth and would honestly follow him in truth and no preconceived and prejudiced view God would want you to come to him.

Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Jhn 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

All the learning in the world won't find a spiritual relationship for you so stop educating yourself into the kingdom and go to the Door who is Christ and establish yourself as a born again believer so you can receive his anointing and so begin on your way to real truth

He promises to reveal himself plainly but only to those whose heart motive is pure and follow his word

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him].
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  #19  
Old 07-15-2011, 05:01 PM
kranked354 kranked354 is offline
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I am very much so in agreeance with Commander: It is not a Fundamental Doctrine if it is not scripturally based. There are many things in every denomination that the leaders hold slightly 'skewif'. So, for example, I have been attending a Pentecostal church for a number of years, and if I have a question that has been bugging me and I cannot find an answer to it I would ask others the question and chat about it and spur on Bible study (naturally). But I have now learned that many of the answers you get will depend on people's church background.

For example, many of the churches in Tasmania around where I live that I have attended (excluding the catholic churches, I am yet to attend one) there have a similar grounding view based upon John Calvin's views - which I find to be completely irrational and birthed out of poor philosophical understandings. The problem is that these sorts of things spread, and so we get many things that end up being "Fundamental Truths" of the Bible that end up being based on a person's words rather than God's.

One of them being "God knows exactly what WILL happen to you in your life" as oppose to my free-will and purpose driven understanding that "God knows exactly what CAN happen to you in your life" because He is the smartest guy around, but He doesn't already know what you'll do in exactly ten years, three days, six hours and 43 minutes time. But He does know what you could do, every possibility in fact, because He is just that smart. But if He knew EXACTLY... then free will doesn't work the same, and God would have sinned by creating Adam and Eve KNOWING that they will sin.

That's why it comes down to prayer, scripture and bible study/discussion as to determine Biblical truths. Also the scripture is to ALWAYS be used in context and in accordance with the greek definitions in order to be precise and accurate in highlighting Biblical Truths.


Well that's I've come to realise. People aren't always right. No matter how great their reputation or IQ, or how long they've studied in an area.
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