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Old 01-02-2010, 08:02 AM
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Default Alcohol and the Bible.

I study hebrew quite a lot. Not fluent but getting there. I came across this looking at different words for wine. Its an interesting little study. I quit drinking years ago, but its good stuff to know check it out.
http://logosresourcepages.org/Believers/alcohol.htm
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Old 01-02-2010, 08:49 PM
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interesting article, i learned a lot and enjoyed reading it.

are u studying Hebrew on your own or through a university?
I have a few friends studying it and says it makes their bible readings make so much more sense and help's them see the real meaning of Scripture rather that the many interpretations that are found among the various translated versions.
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Old 01-03-2010, 05:03 AM
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I got started here.
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/
And am teaching myself. I have a Lexicon from that site as well as a all Hebrew Torah. What I have learned from learning hebrew is beyond measure.
Amazing Stuff.
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Last edited by gr0undz3r0; 01-03-2010 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 01-03-2010, 04:50 PM
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thats something i plan to get into at some point in my life... most likely after grad school. lol
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:14 PM
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Iím going to have to call BS this guyís feelings about alcohol. He states in his webpage that, ďNo Biblical defense can be used to support the consumption of alcohol!Ē That is completely incorrect. Quite the contrary there are many places in scripture that show us that there is nothing wrong with consuming alcohol when moderation is used.

Deut 14:25-26 - Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household;

Micah 4:4 - But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.

John 2:7-10 - Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it. When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

Luke 7:33-34 - For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! (Here Christ, in his own words, states that he did drink wine).

Mat. 26:27-28 -And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

These are just a few scriptures which talk about yayin and shekar and nowhere does it say that these drinks are forbidden. Now drunkenness is definite forbidden and seen as an abomination is Godís eyes which is where this man is coming from. However, if one has the Holy Spirit dwelling in him he should be showing the fruits of the spirit of which the last is temperance. One should be able to temper the use of alcohol before drunkenness becomes a problem. I can see that since he was a former alcoholic he thinks that the alcohol is the sin, but that is not what God states, and God is who we should be listening too. This guy is placing his views as Godís views and that is very dangerous and deceitful. If you do not want to partake of alcohol that is fine (although I would say that you had better drink wine at the Passover no matter what), but donít distort the truth and claim that God is against alcohol.
Thanks for the post though. Always interesting to see otherís point of view.
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Old 01-05-2010, 12:10 AM
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I was listening to Jack Graham a couple weeks ago and he was doing a sermon on this subject, I wish the episode was still available online because it was extremely helpful, but he said there's two kinds of wine in the Bible, the fermented and unfermented, but both translate into English as the same word, so it's easy to see where the confusion comes from.
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:19 AM
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Like I mentioned I was studinig hebrew when I found this stuff. I am going to do some more digging. But to what Wizard24 says I think the point is more the types of wine and alcohol levels on them (some of them could be plain old grape juice diluted with water - which is quite good by the way). So when the bible proclaims drinking wines as ok, we should know what they were drinking. I think we can all agree on that.
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Old 01-05-2010, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr0undz3r0 View Post
Like I mentioned I was studinig hebrew when I found this stuff. I am going to do some more digging. But to what Wizard24 says I think the point is more the types of wine and alcohol levels on them (some of them could be plain old grape juice diluted with water - which is quite good by the way). So when the bible proclaims drinking wines as ok, we should know what they were drinking. I think we can all agree on that.
I don't.

Just as the Israelites worried more about the letter of the law instead of the heart of the law, I don't think knowing what type of wine they were drinking will help at all. Rather we need to ask, what is the intent? And the intent is to not be intoxicated.

Obviously, the alcohol content affects how quickly this would happen, not to mention, previous alcohol consumption, size of the individual, amount of food eaten, etc.

I could drink a sip of grain alcohol and be fine, does this mean I'm sinning and a barbarian (as the article mentions)? No, because I wouldn't be intoxicated.

I could drink a lower percentage (more acceptable according to the article) wine but drink too much on an empty stomach and get blasted which would obviously not be OK.

You can come up with all sorts of scenarios that seem to contradict each other and confuse people if you get caught up in percentages and types of wines. Just keep it simple, don't get drunk. Enjoy wine in moderation.
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Old 01-06-2010, 02:15 PM
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Thats totally up to you. I do see stuff in the bible about not getting into drunkeness, but like most things "Drunkeness" is a matter of opinion. It could be feeling the slightest bit off balance to one man and falling down to another. I know the bible has lots of warning about getting drunk, drinking strong drink, and offering your brother strong drink, and so on.
The points I pulled out of this article is simply that what we drink today is not what is mentioned in the bible.
What you do with that information is up to you.

Personally I feel people that drink are weak in spirt and in flesh. There is no real REASON to drink. But again thats my personal opinion.
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Old 01-06-2010, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr0undz3r0 View Post
Personally I feel people that drink are weak in spirt and in flesh.
Excuse me? That's pretty judgemental.

Romans 14:1-13 NIV

Romans 14
The Weak and the Strong
1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' "[a] 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gr0undz3r0 View Post
There is no real REASON to drink.
Here's one:
Many people enjoy the flavor and do not drink for any other reason than that. And many can enjoy a glass of wine without being even close to intoxicated.
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