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  #21  
Old 06-15-2009, 09:00 PM
sjohnston sjohnston is offline
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a lot of founding fathers were also free masons and who knows what goes on with them
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  #22  
Old 06-16-2009, 12:48 AM
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rootb33r, you address a great point concerning the crusades and tv evangelist. I agree that it is discusting how greedy and evil the church has become, and trust me, judgement day is coming for them. But You must understand, God never intended it to be that way. There are many who call themselves christian but are not! The true definition of christian is Christ like. Jesus said the road is narrow and few find it. Please dont base christianity on what religion does or what sinful people do, but on the example Jesus set for us. I know WE are supposed to be the example, but unfortunately many are like you said "faux".
I used to speak bad of christianity, saying they are nothing but hyprocrites, but now i realize that was just me justifying my selfish pride. now I see the standard set by God and i follow it rather than follow hyprocritical humans.
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  #23  
Old 06-16-2009, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by GonnaGetBig View Post
From here on out I’m only speaking about the Christian faith because the Christian faith is different than religion. Religion is man trying to save himself through works….Christianity is God reaching out to man because we will never be good enough to save ourselves.

Anyway….

Again you’re blaming God for human sinful nature. I mean where is the logic here? The Bible demands that you don’t Kill, steal, etc. and people do it anyway and then you point the finger at God?

My bad for assuming you were a left wing liberal but you guys use a lot of the same arguments. Only speaking of the Christian faith here ok… The crusades were a black eye for Christianity but again it was humans that did these things and once again you’re blaming God for something that “we” did. Keep in mind there is nothing we can’t screw up beyond belief.
No offense, but you can't see the forest through the trees my friend. Christianity was the BASIS of the Crusades and countless other violent acts.


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Originally Posted by GonnaGetBig View Post
Ok first off people don’t kill themselves or others just to get on TV unless there is something severely missing in their lives (that would be Jesus) or they have some kind of mental issues. And yeah I blame the media as well…for bashing God every chance they get, pushing the gay marriage agenda 24/7 and giving people like Bill Maher air time.
People commit atrocities to get the media's attention. The Virginia Tech shootings were done by someone severely mentally ill, but he also sent a letter to a local news station... so obviously he wanted some sort of attention.

The media does not bash God every chance they get. I can't believe you think that. It is VERY risky to bash God openly. Even someone like Wolf Blitzer on CNN says things like "we pray for the families of.." and other similar statements which tell me that even CNN's anchors and reports are probably Christian. I think they have to be, to be honest with you.

Liberal does not always mean atheist, man. There are tons of liberal Christians. Even gay people are Christian. By the way, that's another reason I hate Christianity... it breeds hatemongers and redneck hillbillies that spout prejudice and racist remarks. The bible belt is a cesspool of idiots and racists.

P.S. I saw "Religulous," and, I am probably biased, but I can't see how anyone who watches that movie can come out of there with rock-solid faith. It definitely pulls back the curtain on the fraud and capitalism that reeks within the church.

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Originally Posted by rogjodoin View Post
rootb33r, you address a great point concerning the crusades and tv evangelist. I agree that it is discusting how greedy and evil the church has become, and trust me, judgement day is coming for them. But You must understand, God never intended it to be that way. There are many who call themselves christian but are not! The true definition of christian is Christ like. Jesus said the road is narrow and few find it. Please dont base christianity on what religion does or what sinful people do, but on the example Jesus set for us. I know WE are supposed to be the example, but unfortunately many are like you said "faux".
I used to speak bad of christianity, saying they are nothing but hyprocrites, but now i realize that was just me justifying my selfish pride. now I see the standard set by God and i follow it rather than follow hyprocritical humans.
OK, so it's like your role-model is Harry Potter or someone of that nature: a fictional character. Whatever makes you a better person brother

"I'm not all there; I'm a faithful sinner
I might get lost, but I'll be home for dinner
If god don't like me, he can send me to hell"

... the rest of the song is irrelevant lol.
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  #24  
Old 06-16-2009, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rootb33r View Post
No offense, but you can't see the forest through the trees my friend. Christianity was the BASIS of the Crusades and countless other violent acts.

People commit atrocities to get the media's attention. The Virginia Tech shootings were done by someone severely mentally ill, but he also sent a letter to a local news station... so obviously he wanted some sort of attention.

The media does not bash God every chance they get. I can't believe you think that. It is VERY risky to bash God openly. Even someone like Wolf Blitzer on CNN says things like "we pray for the families of.." and other similar statements which tell me that even CNN's anchors and reports are probably Christian. I think they have to be, to be honest with you.

Liberal does not always mean atheist, man. There are tons of liberal Christians. Even gay people are Christian. By the way, that's another reason I hate Christianity... it breeds hatemongers and redneck hillbillies that spout prejudice and racist remarks. The bible belt is a cesspool of idiots and racists.

P.S. I saw "Religulous," and, I am probably biased, but I can't see how anyone who watches that movie can come out of there with rock-solid faith. It definitely pulls back the curtain on the fraud and capitalism that reeks within the church.
If my child went out and killed someone even after I had taught them it's wrong and then said they did it for me.....am I responsible for that murder?

When I say "God bash" I don't mean they come out and say "I hate God" like yourself. They do it in other ways like have specials a day or two before Christmas about how the nativity could not have been accurate (they have done this 2 years in a row now). Or like when James Camron claims he found the tomb of Jesus...trying to disprove the Bible and failed terribly. Or you have people like Bill who make movies like "Religulous". And by the way I have friends who saw it and found it funny. Evidently Bill found the most over the top people to put in his film. I was also told that it was painfully obvious he didn't have a clue about the Christian faith...but that doesn't matter to you so long as he hate God I guess. So I'm not just talking about the news media I'm also talking about hollywood.

I did not say that liberal “ALWAYS means atheist” although there is a trend between the two. Yes there are lots of gay people who claim to be Christian...and I have members on my wife’s side of the family who are gay and claim to be Christian. I don’t agree with gay marriage/lifestyle and I will never apologize for that in any way shape or form but at the same time I treat gay people just like I would anyone else…with love and respect because that is what the Bible teaches.

The Bible belt has a lot of old school people who grew up in the woods with hardcore racist families that have not changed with the times and that has absolutely NOTHING to do with Christianity. They are just narrow-minded people surrounded by more narrow-minded people who are just as racist as them. Christianity does not teach racism or hate in any way…in fact it teaches just the opposite.

Last edited by GonnaGetBig; 06-16-2009 at 08:03 PM.
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  #25  
Old 06-16-2009, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by rootb33r View Post
OK, so it's like your role-model is Harry Potter or someone of that nature: a fictional character. Whatever makes you a better person brother
Ya know, he has been very polite and ^ that was not cool in my opinion. It's one thing to not agree it's something else to just be rude.

Mr rootb33r, I think I'm done here with this conversation but if you ever have any questions at all feel free to PM me. Not that I have all the answers but I can find'em for you if I don't know myself.

I don't expect I'll be hearing from you but hey...ya never know.
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  #26  
Old 06-16-2009, 08:20 PM
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Root, my old friend. I know you and I have been around this dance floor before, but I’m still a bit confused by your views to say the least. You don’t believe in God, but you hate Him. You believe that we as human have free will, were not created by a supreme power and are not influenced by one, yet you are angry with God for the “bad” things that people do (e.g. Crusades, televangelism. . .). You are angered and distressed (I could be wrong about this, but it is definitely what comes across in your posts) that people have God in their life and “waste their time” reading scripture or trying to live up to his standards. However I have yet to meet the person who is just so distressed that they have God in their life and believe that everything would be just fine if they could get rid of Him. I think you are confusing what God instructs us to do and what man does in “the name of the Lord”.

So since this thread has obviously taken a turn from where it was intended to go, and in the hopes of preventing a Holy War (or Unholy as the case may be) I have another question. You believe that the purpose of life is to love. What do you believe happens once we die? I mean if we only have an extremely short period of consciousness and then that is all, what is the whole point anyway?

I would encourage other people who have responded to this thread to answer because I feel that there is a massive amount of misunderstanding about what our purpose is.
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  #27  
Old 06-16-2009, 08:23 PM
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I was in the middle of writing a long post along the lines of what Wizard posted....since I took the time, I am going to throw it up anyway.....(sorry the post is so messy)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rootb33r View Post
First of all, yes, I hate religion . Secondly, I never said I was left-wing. In fact, I'm a registered conservative I am fiscally, morally, and socially conservative...


Fiscally conservative?

(following quotes taken from this thread)
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90109&highlight=adam&page=7

Quote:
Originally Posted by rootb33r View Post
As for economics, I don't shun the laissez-faire approach, though I prefer Keynesian economics myself.


Most wouldn't consider Keynesians conservative.


Morally and socially conservative?

(following quotes taken from this thread)
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91500&highlight=adam&page=12

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Originally Posted by rootb33r View Post
I think it promotes monogamy by providing an alternative, harmless outlet for sexual desire. And you're right, I am not married, but I have been in several long-term relationships (the longest being 3 years), where in all cases, pornography was used (on occasion, of course) to "mix it up." And believe me, the sexual part of our relationship was never the reason for separation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootb33r View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootb33r View Post
Pornography should perhaps even be utilized within the marriage to strengthen it. [Ironic statement, coming from me:] God knows there are a lot of couples that need help with their sex lives. And sex is very important.


not very conservative

Quote:
Originally Posted by rootb33r View Post
Christianity's views on sex have always been one of my biggest issues with religion. Some of the happiest marriages and other relationships I know have thriving sex lives, and believe me, they're not "doing it for procreation."


Who says Christian’s only “do it for procreation.” A thriving sex-life is OK with God. In fact, he encourages it.


Finally, you just don’t seem to be consistent on several other issues (references below):
You don’t believe God exists, but you do believe in some supreme being.
You hate God, but you don’t believe in his existence.
You hate religion, but deism and pantheism are religions.
You have pretty consistently in past posts mentioned that you like to know that things are scientifically rooted or proven, but you make that statement that it is possible some supreme being created the universe and then left it on it’s own. I am assuming you can’t prove with science that the supreme being suddenly stopped caring about our existence.

(following quotes taken from this thread)
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91500&highlight=adam&page=12

Quote:
Originally Posted by rootb33r View Post
The irony lies in that, if you believe in god, his "creations" (aka humans) are creating things to prove his non-existence. THAT is ironic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootb33r View Post

...But I don't believe he exists


(following quotes taken from current thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rootb33r View Post
Well, I'm not a God-hater, I just refuse to believe something that has never been proven. So in effect, all I'm doing is "not taking a giant leap of faith." Right? Hah.

No, I take that back, I do hate God. I hate him because of what this fictional being has turned our world into. Violence, greed, hate, and utter irrationality amongst billions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rootb33r View Post
I'll also add that I am somewhere between a deist and a pantheist. Basically I do not DENY the existence of some supreme being, but I 100% deny that this being did anything more than just create the universe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootb33r View Post

Basically I don't believe in God as you all know him via scripture. I believe in the possibility of some supreme being, who, may not even care that we exist. He created the universe and went on vacation


Just want to let you know, I always enjoy talking with you and I write this as an "online friend."
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Last edited by Commander; 06-16-2009 at 08:31 PM.
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  #28  
Old 06-16-2009, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizard24 View Post
I would encourage other people who have responded to this thread to answer because I feel that there is a massive amount of misunderstanding about what our purpose is.
I was going to PM you but I can't...not enough post yet...man that's annoying.

Anyway, do you feel like I have said anything inaccurate?

I’m open for correction if so…at least some conversation anyway.
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  #29  
Old 06-16-2009, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by GonnaGetBig View Post
If my child went out and killed someone even after I had taught them it's wrong and then said they did it for me.....am I responsible for that murder?

When I say "God bash" I don't mean they come out and say "I hate God" like yourself. They do it in other ways like have specials a day or two before Christmas about how the nativity could not have been accurate (they have done this 2 years in a row now). Or like when James Camron claims he found the tomb of Jesus...trying to disprove the Bible and failed terribly. Or you have people like Bill who make movies like "Religulous". And by the way I have friends who saw it and found it funny. Evidently Bill found the most over the top people to put in his film. I was also told that it was painfully obvious he didn't have a clue about the Christian faith...but that doesn't matter to you so long as he hate God I guess. So I'm not just talking about the news media I'm also talking about hollywood.

I did not say that liberal “ALWAYS means atheist” although there is a trend between the two. Yes there are lots of gay people who claim to be Christian...and I have members on my wife’s side of the family who are gay and claim to be Christian. I don’t agree with gay marriage/lifestyle and I will never apologize for that in any way shape or form but at the same time I treat gay people just like I would anyone else…with love and respect because that is what the Bible teaches.

The Bible belt has a lot of old school people who grew up in the woods with hardcore racist families that have not changed with the times and that has absolutely NOTHING to do with Christianity. They are just narrow-minded people surrounded by more narrow-minded people who are just as racist as them. Christianity does not teach racism or hate in any way…in fact it teaches just the opposite.[/quote]

Well you're really picking and choosing your Christian cohorts here. I understand what you're saying, unfortunately according to your 'standards,' your religion only has a few true Christians. I don't understand how if the bible is your guiding light that there can be so many caveats to the religion: "oh, they don't count," or "they're a disgrace to the religion." I don't get how there can be so many different facets of Christianity yet you all follow the same book, and you vehemently try to separate yourselves from the others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GonnaGetBig View Post
Ya know, he has been very polite and ^ that was not cool in my opinion. It's one thing to not agree it's something else to just be rude.
Eh, he said that Christianity is about being like jesus... and really that means it's about following a fictional story.
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  #30  
Old 06-16-2009, 10:28 PM
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Fiscally conservative?

(following quotes taken from this thread)
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90109&highlight=adam&page=7



Most wouldn't consider Keynesians conservative.
Well since true Laissez-Faire economics does not exist (for reasons we won't get into), it would be foolish to throw all of my weight behind true conservatism. I do believe that there is an element of the economy that runs itself, but I also feel that things like the Fed are necessary to regulate and provide a certain degree of stability to the market, and thus the economy.

I also change my mind on this a lot, depending on the state of the economy. Right now I believe we need government intervention (actually it's more like government FIXING). If we fix certain problems, the economy should self-regulate and slowly recover (there's the hint at conservatism/laissez-faire).

Quote:

Morally and socially conservative?

(following quotes taken from this thread)
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91500&highlight=adam&page=12

[size=3][font=Times New Roman][color=red]


not very conservative



Who says Christian’s only “do it for procreation.” A thriving sex-life is OK with God. In fact, he encourages it.
Man, I've gotta say, pornography is just ... normal. I don't see that as siding one way or the other on the conservative/liberal scale.

Like you quoted, I do think Christianity's views on sex are way too strict. I'm not saying go out and have sex with everyone, but there really is a physical chemistry that you really need to know exists between you and your partner. That is truly what I feel.
Now, I'm not promiscuous in the least bit... my parents raised me to be a gentleman and morally conservative; that is where I come from. I don't do drugs, I rarely drink, and I don't approve of promiscuity of any kind, but I do believe in physical forms of affection (with time in a relationship, of course... just not waiting until marriage). If you play your cards right, there's nothing wrong with having sex with multiple people.


Quote:
Finally, you just don’t seem to be consistent on several other issues (references below):
You don’t believe God exists, but you do believe in some supreme being.
You hate God, but you don’t believe in his existence.
You hate religion, but deism and pantheism are religions.
You have pretty consistently in past posts mentioned that you like to know that things are scientifically rooted or proven, but you make that statement that it is possible some supreme being created the universe and then left it on it’s own. I am assuming you can’t prove with science that the supreme being suddenly stopped caring about our existence.

(following quotes taken from this thread)
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91500&highlight=adam&page=12



(following quotes taken from current thread)





Just want to let you know, I always enjoy talking with you and I write this as an "online friend."
Well thank you my friend, I enjoy our discussions as well.

Now, as for my "mixed views..."

I'll lay it all out for you:
-I do not believe in God
-It is possible that a supreme being exists (I never said god, and if I did, I meant "supreme being," or a god of some kind)

When I said that quote about hating god, I meant that I hated him indirectly. As a general statement, I suppose you could say that I meant to say I hated religion. I hate "god" as a symbol.

I guess technically deism and pantheism are religions, but only by definition. I don't believe that there is a god who is affecting day-to-day life. I'm not even sure if I believe in a "creator." I suppose the possibility exists, but it's just as likely that there is no such thing as god.

My siding as a deist or pantheist is really a moniker for my almost-atheist attitude. I can't positively say there is no god, so I'll just say yes, the possibility exists there is a supreme being... but who cares?
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