Does a bigger protein meal mean longer duration release of aminos?

[elmura]

We've probably all read or heard the mantra that protein doesn't get stored and thus you need to replenish protein levels every 3 hours to keep your body anabolic, or at the least, anti-catabolic....

I've searched for an answer to this question on the web with so far no success:
Q. Instead of consuming say a 30g protein meal every 3 hours to get your protein levels for the day, what if you had a 60g serve of protein in one meal. Would that mean you could effectively go twice as long before having to consume protein again and still stay nitrogen positive?
Or, would that provide a bigger surge of nitrogen for the same 3 hours?
Or, does your body simply do away with the excess and turn it into urea (or fat)?

[HardCory]

Read this: http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/prote..._frequency.pdf

[elmura]

Thanks for that. This article raises some additional questions:

Layne Norton talks about the level of protein at a meal required to obtain the maximum benefit for muscle building and states "at a protein intake above this level the body would merely oxidize the excess amino acids for energy".

But then later on in the article, suggests "it is better to consume larger protein doses spaced further apart and maximize protein synthesis" which doesn't equate with the first point.

So, I theorise that if you ate more protein than the required level for MPS at a single meal, and you aren't in an energy deficit, either of these scenarios would occur:

1. Excess would be stored as fat, or
2. Excess would be excreted, or
3. The larger size of the meal would take longer to digest and thus you would have a more sustained release of aminos over a longer period of time

What do you guys think? Is there any evidence of which of these scenarios occur in trained men?

[keeptruckin]

Originally Posted by elmura

Thanks for that. This article raises some additional questions:

Layne Norton talks about the level of protein at a meal required to obtain the maximum benefit for muscle building and states "at a protein intake above this level the body would merely oxidize the excess amino acids for energy".
But then later on in the article, suggests "it is better to consume larger protein doses spaced further apart and maximize protein synthesis" which doesn't equate with the first point.

So, I theorise that if you ate more protein than the required level for MPS at a single meal, and you aren't in an energy deficit, either of these scenarios would occur:

1. Excess would be stored as fat, or
2. Excess would be excreted, or
3. The larger size of the meal would take longer to digest and thus you would have a more sustained release of aminos over a longer period of time

What do you guys think? Is there any evidence of which of these scenarios occur in trained men?

Good questions. Keep in mind that in those statements by Layne that no mention of quantity is made. He is talking in principles. Here is, I believe, the resolution of the two statements ..

1. A certain amount of protein (specifically, the amount that raises your blood Leucine concentration to a threshold level) gets you into synthesis. Any more than that makes no further contribution to synthesis and is essentially extra calories.


2. Because synthesis is a cycle that works as follows ...

- It must be stimulated by reaching your Leucine threshold (i.e. more protein AT ONE SITTING ... so that your Leucine essentially pulses up to synthesis threshold)
- It must run its course and return to baseline before it can be stimulated again (with the cycle being about 5-6 hours)

... it is better to eat less frequently with more protein per sitting (specifically, enough to stimulate synthesis) at each meal, as compared to higher frequency, lower protein which never pulses your Leucine up to threshold. Just make sure you don't eat too much more than necessary to stimulate the synthesis (number 1 above).

[elmura]

Thanks for that helpful answer to the first part.

Does anybody have any evidence of which of these scenarios occur in trained men when they have consumed above the Leucine threshold:

1. Excess would be stored as fat, or
2. Excess would be excreted, or
3. The larger size of the meal would take longer to digest and thus you would have a more sustained release of aminos over a longer period of time
?

[Commander]

1. Hard to get fat overeating protein
2. Maybe, but I'd rather overshoot a little than not stimulate protein synthesis
3. This is likey to occur IMO and that's a good thing.

[elmura]

Cheers for that.

So, what I've gained from this discussion is to consume just over your Leucine threshold at one sitting, then repeat in 4-5 hours. Thanks guys.

PS - If that avatar is you commander, I'm impressed.

[Commander]

Originally Posted by elmura

Cheers for that.

So, what I've gained from this discussion is to consume just over your Leucine threshold at one sitting, then repeat in 4-5 hours. Thanks guys.

PS - If that avatar is you commander, I'm impressed.

Yes, it is me. Results of dieting last summer/fall.

Picture is mid October 2010.

Here are my other pictures:
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forums/album.php?u=10595

[GooDFeLLa]

Wow, really insightful stuff. I have a few questions that I could never really find an answer to though..
1. Are you suppose to add Leucine and a slow burning carb in between meals? I remember Layne talking about this but from what it sounds like in the article it is better to have a huge spike all in one sitting
2.Is there any kind of template of this diet?
3. And finally has anyone gone this route and been successful with it? I've been doing 2 to 3 hour meals for the most part of my bodybuilding life. Does this really make a huge difference doing it this way? Thanks!

[Commander]

1. If your meals are far enough apart you can spike with some Leucine or BCAA. Add carb depending on your goals (bulking/cutting), but they aren't necessary.
2. That depends on your goals. The basic idea is larger meals, spread farther apart to allow for peaks and valleys in protein synthesis. Within that framework, there is room for different macronutrient breakdowns dependent on your training and goals.
3. I have had success. The last 2 years have by far been the most productive I have had in my lifting lifetime. I eat as little as 2 meals a day (intermittent fasting) and as many as 4. It gives you great freedom, not having to stress about having food every 2 hours.