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Old 10-06-2014, 12:02 PM
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I ran across this passage while reading my bible and I'm having some doubts about what I have been taught in mainstream religion. I've always thought the "teaching" was that we can be forgiven for anything as long as we are truly repentent for the sin. Is this so? Here is why I'm questioning that reasoning. Look at

(Hebrews 10:26-31)

[b]"26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[a] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." [NIV]


Also what about the "unforgivable" sin that one can commit? Is anyone familar with these passages? I've found several google inquires on this matter, however, none seem to know exactly what this means. Anyone?

Last edited by 2ndWind; 10-06-2014 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 10-06-2014, 02:23 PM
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Look at the wording of the text, it is very strong and should not be ignored.

The idea (as I understand it) is that if you are DELIBERATELY and CONTINUALLY sinning, then you were never saved in the first place.

And this is not just sinning like violating the speed limit, the author of Hebrews uses the terms REJECTED the law, TRAMPLED the Son of God.
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:31 PM
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Look at the wording of the text, it is very strong and should not be ignored.

The idea (as I understand it) is that if you are DELIBERATELY and CONTINUALLY sinning, then you were never saved in the first place.

And this is not just sinning like violating the speed limit, the author of Hebrews uses the terms REJECTED the law, TRAMPLED the Son of God.

Yes I was under the same impression. However, what got me to thinking was the sin of Adultery. It definitely is forgiven from what I understand as long as the offender is repentant genuinely. So how is Adultery NOT DELIBERATE AND CONTINUAL? The two have to plot,act, deceive UNTIL they get CAUGHT most of the time. Yet is readily forgiven when truly repentant. Now I can understand a one night stand where the two simply got out of control on that ONE night, thereby constituting an mistake. What's your take on it friend?
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:27 AM
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As I read the text again. Hebrews is definitely describing someone who is not saved.

"treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace"

The person described has no love or appreciation for Jesus based on 10:29.

And while you are correct that INDIVIDUAL sins can be both deliberate and continual, it doesn't give us the whole picture. The author of Hebrews is talking about someone who has made it their LIFESTYLE to sin. And not just that, but they do it with the intention of rejecting Christ. When I sin, I can tell you that it is not with the purpose of rejecting Christ.
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Old 10-07-2014, 02:30 PM
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As I read the text again. Hebrews is definitely describing someone who is not saved.

"treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace"

The person described has no love or appreciation for Jesus based on 10:29.

And while you are correct that INDIVIDUAL sins can be both deliberate and continual, it doesn't give us the whole picture. The author of Hebrews is talking about someone who has made it their LIFESTYLE to sin. And not just that, but they do it with the intention of rejecting Christ. When I sin, I can tell you that it is not with the purpose of rejecting Christ.
Do you mean someone whom has NEVER ACCEPTED Christ? Look at the following vs.

[b]
"26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left."



Isn't this speaking of a person who has ACCEPTED Christ, THEN later on at some point in time, REJECTING Christ? If so, this would mean a person isn't saved once and for all, right? According to this passage a person can fall away from the grace that they once accepted as truth. This would mean the ole adage "once saved, always saved" is not true. What is your view on it?

Last edited by 2ndWind; 10-07-2014 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 10-07-2014, 04:10 PM
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Receiving knowledge is not the same as accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior.

We receive knowledge each and every day which we run through our own personal filters.

I have knowledge of Muhammad and who Muslims believe him to be, but I don't believe he was a prophet from God.

Demon's know who Jesus is but have not accepted Him as their Savior.

Mark 1:24
"What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are--the Holy One of God!"

James 2:19
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

The person described in the passage of Hebrews is in direct contradiction with the person described in 1 John 3:9:
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God

(FYI - the NIV offers a nice translation because it captures the idea of habitually abiding in sin)

Other helpful verses:
John 3:16; Romans 10:9, John 1:12; Acts 2:21
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James 1:16-17 ESV
Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights
With God's help...Mens sana in corpore sano

Last edited by Commander; 10-08-2014 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 10-07-2014, 04:51 PM
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As J. Vernon McGee (Thru the Bible) says that once the prodigal son returned to his father with a changed heart, he no longer returned to the pig pen because he was always the son of the father and never a pig. Pigs like pig pens. If you enjoy sinning, maybe you are not the father's son and saved in the first place. If you are saved, sinning weights heavy on your heart. If you are not, it doesn't.


Also read Romans 5-6.


I believe that Commander had it right in the first place when he wrote, "The idea (as I understand it) is that if you are DELIBERATELY and CONTINUALLY sinning, then you were never saved in the first place".
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Old 10-10-2014, 12:08 PM
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First let me say I really appreiciate the reasonable responses to my inquiries. It's nice to be able to discuss such a touchy subject without getting out of hand.

So, I have researched deeper as you guys recommended and I tell you what, the scriptures can be very challenging to even the most well read person alive! Which I'm not! I can litterally see the view the two of you are teaching. I also see another possible view.

Take a look at:

Hebrews 10:32-35

"31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32 Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you endured in a great conflict full of suffering. 33 Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. 34 You suffered along with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions. 35 So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded."




Isn't this saying people can "throw away" thier salvation? In other words, they were saved, yet, coudlln't endure to the end. It even talks about them suffering persecution as a christian I'm assuming. What is your take on this?
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Old 10-10-2014, 02:03 PM
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I wouldn't say that at all.

Salvation describes our positional relationship with Christ.

Confidence is an attitude we can have or not have regardless of salvation. And in this passage, it is specifically an attitude towards prayer, or to "draw near to God" as written in v. 22

Remember the context, it is written in v. 19-20: Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body,

Formerly we could not come into God's presence. Only the High Priest could do so, and even then only once per year. The confidence is in regard to our ability to pray directly to God and not through an intermediary.

To throw away that confidence is to no longer go to God in prayer with the boldness/attitude that God is faithful to help you do His will.
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Old 10-10-2014, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndWind View Post
Isn't this saying people can "throw away" thier salvation? In other words, they were saved, yet, coudlln't endure to the end. It even talks about them suffering persecution as a christian I'm assuming. What is your take on this?
If God has 100 sheep, when it is all said and done, He will still have 100 sheep.

You can lose your reward, not your salvation.

The question remains whether or not individuals who continue sinning were ever saved in the first place.

Matthew 16:27 King James Version (KJV) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Salvation is free and cannot be earned. Rewards are earned.
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