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Old 10-13-2014, 04:21 AM
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Exclamation Having Doubts?

I thought about this subject recently as I'm sure everyone including myself at times have doubts in regards to our faith. After all it's the devil's job to instill them in every possible thinking person he can. So, is there a cure? What can we do to curb or stop doubts from overwhelming our joy of service to our beloved Creator? Well I thought about creating a thread whereby whom ever wanted could post ideas, of course backed by scriptural reference when possible that would help one to overcome doubts they may have. Also, sometimes we have just good things to encourage one another with by way of words. The Scriptures do indicate our faith is fortified by our interaction among our fellow worshipers. So if you can encourage someone by eradicating their doubts, joy should be achieved by both! Nothing like winning a battle with you know who. So then, I have a few thoughts I can start with that maybe might help someone whom may be having doubts of some sort.


Think About Your Beliefs

We should always try to remember belief in creation does not require "blind faith." Rather, it rests on sound reasoning. Consider this:

Everything you experience in life teaches you that where there is design, there is a designer. When you see a camera, a plane, or a house, you rightly conclude that someone designed it. Why should you abandon that logic when you consider the human eye, a bird in the sky, or our planet Earth? Aren't the latter just as sophisticated, complex, etc. or more so than the former? How many times have you heard a medical expert say they don't understand completely some system in the human body? Yet, when it comes to an airplane for example, the designer can tell you the ends and outs of that complex airship while being in an comatose state.


Is it reasonable to think that an airplane was designed but a bird was not?
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Old 10-13-2014, 07:57 AM
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I thought about this subject recently as I'm sure everyone including myself at times have doubts in regards to our faith. After all it's the devil's job to instill them in every possible thinking person he can. So, is there a cure? What can we do to curb or stop doubts from overwhelming our joy of service to our beloved Creator? Well I thought about creating a thread whereby whom ever wanted could post ideas, of course backed by scriptural reference when possible that would help one to overcome doubts they may have. Also, sometimes we have just good things to encourage one another with by way of words. The Scriptures do indicate our faith is fortified by our interaction among our fellow worshipers. So if you can encourage someone by eradicating their doubts, joy should be achieved by both! Nothing like winning a battle with you know who. So then, I have a few thoughts I can start with that maybe might help someone whom may be having doubts of some sort.


Think About Your Beliefs

We should always try to remember belief in creation does not require "blind faith." Rather, it rests on sound reasoning. Consider this:

Everything you experience in life teaches you that where there is design, there is a designer. When you see a camera, a plane, or a house, you rightly conclude that someone designed it. Why should you abandon that logic when you consider the human eye, a bird in the sky, or our planet Earth? Aren't the latter just as sophisticated, complex, etc. or more so than the former? How many times have you heard a medical expert say they don't understand completely some system in the human body? Yet, when it comes to an airplane for example, the designer can tell you the ends and outs of that complex airship while being in an comatose state.


Is it reasonable to think that an airplane was designed but a bird was not?
a bird isnt design, its evolutionary steps, we already know this from fossils of similar animals with smaller wings, more wings, fatter bodies, I am not against the idea of belief but the evidence of species evolution is there to see..
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Old 10-13-2014, 09:20 AM
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a bird isnt design, its evolutionary steps, we already know this from fossils of similar animals with smaller wings, more wings, fatter bodies, I am not against the idea of belief but the evidence of species evolution is there to see..
Well friend I'm not able to discuss this point with you due to my lack of understanding and knowledge of evolution. However, throughout my years of being a Christian, or rather trying to be one, I have also been an Atheists at one time. So naturally I did believe in evolution at the time. I just didn't really know how or why. From what I remember when I did look into the evolution theory it was always confusing for me. It seems like you would have to have more faith in it's mechanism(s) for producing life and sustaining it, than belief in an Creator for me. Maybe if someone could feel in the gaps I would be able to see evolution's point of view clearer. At this point, I can't even find a shred of convincing evidence that persuades me to believe it is what caused life.

Adaption? Yes I do see the species "adapting" to environmental pressures and the like. However, I don't see them moving from one kind to another kind. The species always stays the same kind of species. All I see is that a particular species adapted/evolved into a variation of itself. For instance, I don't see fossil proof of the final stages of a fish becoming a man. If I could see this transition in the fossil record, then I would have to challenge my faith at that point.

I can see where folks do put their faith/trust in evolution tho. I do see certain events in the fossil record which if not looked upon thoroughly would appear to have maybe transformed into a complete different creature. So lets see what your view is klosey and I can get a better idea of what you are seeing in the fossil record that I'm not. It would be educational for me to learn more about it.

Last edited by 2ndWind; 10-13-2014 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 10-13-2014, 09:50 AM
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What you see in fossil records are essentially survival of the fittest... natural adaptations to improve survival chances of a creature....
several animals that are evolving during our life times include (forced to by the way we treat them)

River fish - hudson particullarly, fish are being born that are immune to toxic waste, they have evolved by dropping six base pairs from their genes that actually were effected by toxins

Elephants are being born with shorter tusks as only long tusk elephants are killed for ivory. the short tusk males reproduce more and pass the gene on

the southeast fence lizard, for example. When fire ants were accidentally introduced to the States about 70 years ago, the fence lizard found itself defenceless against them. The ants had no natural enemies, and it only took 12 of them to take a lizard down in about a minute. Seventy years later, the lizards that live closest to the port where the ants were first introduced have evolved an unlikely strategy for dealing with their antagonists. How unlikely? Well, there's a dance involved, which makes these animals the first on record to employ the West Side Story method of self-defense.[left]
lerista skink is literally losing its arms.. you can find some with tiny from arms, and some without where as fossils show all of them had arms originally,

n 1971, scientists introduced 10 Italian wall lizards to an island in Croatia, but right after they dropped them off, the Croatian War for Independence prevented the researchers from following up on their little lizard guinea pigs. In fact, the scientists couldn't get back to the island until 2004. When they did, they found 5,000 lizard descendants who had not only annihilated the entire indigenous lizard population, but also rewired the shape of their own innards to accommodate the local diet.

Last edited by klosey; 10-13-2014 at 09:56 AM.
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Old 10-13-2014, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by klosey View Post
What you see in fossil records are essentially survival of the fittest... natural adaptations to improve survival chances of a creature....
several animals that are evolving during our life times include (forced to by the way we treat them)

River fish - hudson particullarly, fish are being born that are immune to toxic waste, they have evolved by dropping six base pairs from their genes that actually were effected by toxins

Elephants are being born with shorter tusks as only long tusk elephants are killed for ivory. the short tusk males reproduce more and pass the gene on

the southeast fence lizard, for example. When fire ants were accidentally introduced to the States about 70 years ago, the fence lizard found itself defenceless against them. The ants had no natural enemies, and it only took 12 of them to take a lizard down in about a minute. Seventy years later, the lizards that live closest to the port where the ants were first introduced have evolved an unlikely strategy for dealing with their antagonists. How unlikely? Well, there's a dance involved, which makes these animals the first on record to employ the West Side Story method of self-defense.


lerista skink is literally losing its arms.. you can find some with tiny from arms, and some without where as fossils show all of them had arms origonally

Hey friend before we go any further let me ask you something. In the ToE is the human race considered the final stage of evolution? I guess I'm asking this right. *LOL*. In other words, from the one cell organism(?) that started ToE until now is the human race the last of the animals to have evolved? Are we evolving into some other kind (species)? If not, why? Has evolution stopped with humans? Why don't we evolve into something else?
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Old 10-13-2014, 10:16 AM
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Hey friend before we go any further let me ask you something. In the ToE is the human race considered the final stage of evolution? I guess I'm asking this right. *LOL*. In other words, from the one cell organism(?) that started ToE until now is the human race the last of the animals to have evolved? Are we evolving into some other kind (species)? If not, why? Has evolution stopped with humans? Why don't we evolve into something else?
We havent stopped evolving, its just not as a dramatic change...
look at how height, life expectancy, intelligence,
natural immunity, strength..
Its all evolution but evoltion that we our selves are bringing...

Personally i believe there will never be a final step.. we simply will always adapt to surrounding.. we will only stop when there is no need to progress (like crocodiles)
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Old 10-15-2014, 01:57 PM
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We havent stopped evolving, its just not as a dramatic change...
look at how height, life expectancy, intelligence,
natural immunity, strength..
Its all evolution but evoltion that we our selves are bringing...

Personally i believe there will never be a final step.. we simply will always adapt to surrounding.. we will only stop when there is no need to progress (like crocodiles)

Ok, I see your point about the change within the human race. However, we are still humans, right? All I can gather from that is "adaption" of the species.

Alright, think about this for a sec, humans supposedly according to ToE, are millions of years old, correct? If so, how is that not enough time for us to have evolved into something else? Also, shouldn't we have ample fossil evidence of this transition? Especially in the latter stages of the process. What's your take on it, friend?
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Old 10-15-2014, 07:06 PM
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Ok, I see your point about the change within the human race. However, we are still humans, right? All I can gather from that is "adaption" of the species.

Alright, think about this for a sec, humans supposedly according to ToE, are millions of years old, correct? If so, how is that not enough time for us to have evolved into something else? Also, shouldn't we have ample fossil evidence of this transition? Especially in the latter stages of the process. What's your take on it, friend?
In my opinion. There hasn't been anything to force the adaptation. We have survived through intelligence and adapting our surroundings to suit us rather than adapting to the surroundings, animals have to adapt to compensate for weather, food, etc. We don't. We grow what we need, we turn the heating up. Or put on a jumper, I get what you mean though
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Old 10-16-2014, 08:50 PM
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In my opinion. There hasn't been anything to force the adaptation. We have survived through intelligence and adapting our surroundings to suit us rather than adapting to the surroundings, animals have to adapt to compensate for weather, food, etc. We don't. We grow what we need, we turn the heating up. Or put on a jumper, I get what you mean though

Klosey, I've got to give this some thought. Very interesting point, friend! I never thought of it that way. However, deep down, I feel that ToE isn't that smart. If ToE is a natural process, it seems like it wouldn't know which animals are in the outdoors or not. It's like ToE is attaching an intelligent component to the mix. I'm probably not making this point right at the moment. Let me gather my thoughts so that I can explain the way I want. Again, tho, very interesting theory on the matter.
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Old 10-17-2014, 11:03 AM
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Klosey, I've got to give this some thought. Very interesting point, friend! I never thought of it that way. However, deep down, I feel that ToE isn't that smart. If ToE is a natural process, it seems like it wouldn't know which animals are in the outdoors or not. It's like ToE is attaching an intelligent component to the mix. I'm probably not making this point right at the moment. Let me gather my thoughts so that I can explain the way I want. Again, tho, very interesting theory on the matter.
Not really... The Theory of evolution is purely that creatures evolve / survival of the fittest... we already know about neanderthal and Australopithecus africanus.... the latter was concered one of first evidence as it showed a species which had the brain shape of a human but the body was more like a gorillas,

Think about it like this
If two species where around at the same time... say two human type species.. both lived in caves.... one with thumbs, one without, neither could understand or intergrate with each other but needed the same diet... which would be most likely to survive?

The one with thumbs would be able to make procession tools, grip things, the one without could not... the one with thumbs would be able to collect more food which over years would = better life expectancy, better mating chances.. they would progress and the other species would suffer untill the thumbed on essentially wiped out the thumbless.. allow for stuff like genetic mutations etc.. and the thumbed would win
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