PWO fats instead of carbs on cutting...

dtg · #1 07-02-2008, 03:42 PM

I read that for cutting, it's a good idea to substitute fats (i.e. natty pb) for the simple sugars in the PWO shake.

Currently, I only drink 40g whey with water with nothing else in it for my PWO shake --- but I read that this is not good because the protein will be converted to sugar since there is no carbs or fats to act as a "carrier"

I have no idea what that means! Can someone explain if my goal is Cutting; 1) should I add fat to whey for the PWO shake, or 2) should I just stick to whey only?

Thanks.

Venom · #2 07-02-2008, 03:54 PM

I'd only do that if you are on a very low carbohydrate diet (i.e. ketogenic). Otherwise, you absolutely should have carbs post exercise. Yes that will lower fat oxidation, but carbs are important for performance and growth, and after a weight training session, those factors are premium.

After cardio, you might go low carb, higher fat though. Actually, a lot of people wait an hour to eat after cardio. Recent study showed that this results in greater fat metabolism.

dtg · #3 07-02-2008, 04:18 PM

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I'd only do that if you are on a very low carbohydrate diet (i.e. ketogenic). Otherwise, you absolutely should have carbs post exercise. Yes that will lower fat oxidation, but carbs are important for performance and growth, and after a weight training session, those factors are premium.

After cardio, you might go low carb, higher fat though. Actually, a lot of people wait an hour to eat after cardio. Recent study showed that this results in greater fat metabolism.

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Thanks for the feedback, but problem here is that I do cardio immediately following weights for greater fat metabolism (so I heard). Also, I am on a very low carb diet as I'm trying to lose very stubborn belly fat that I've carried for the last 5 to 6 years... not a whole lot but it's very stubborn. I eat less than 50g carbs daily.

Currently, I do weights 4 times per week (split) followed by 20 mins cardio --- then I do the PWO shake (w/o carbs).

I can switch it up --- do weights only 4 times per week and then do cardio by itself on empty stomach 3 times per week --- in which case, I would not eat for 45min following cardio.

What do you think?

Venom · #4 07-02-2008, 04:28 PM

My comment about the carbs still remains. But cardio is another subject.

You don't need to overkill on the cardio. Do only as much as is necessary. What I do is just 10-15 minutes low intensity cardio after weights, and 5-10 pre-weights for warm up. Does not seem like much but it adds up and its easy to adhere too. It's also perfect for active recovery.

I really don't buy the cardio on an empty stomach. But I would include 2-3 cardio sessions weekly on a cut.

dtg · #5 07-02-2008, 09:00 PM

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My comment about the carbs still remains. But cardio is another subject.

You don't need to overkill on the cardio. Do only as much as is necessary. What I do is just 10-15 minutes low intensity cardio after weights, and 5-10 pre-weights for warm up. Does not seem like much but it adds up and its easy to adhere too. It's also perfect for active recovery.

I really don't buy the cardio on an empty stomach. But I would include 2-3 cardio sessions weekly on a cut.

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I assume the 2-3 cardio sessions you refer to in your last paragraph are seperate from the 10-15 minutes you suggest post weight?

I'm still not clear about doing a PWO shake with whey and pb instead of whey and sugar?

Also, can I do just whey as a mid-day snack or do I need to add fat to it?

I'm trying to eliminate the gut so I've been very low calories lately, so my two mid-day snacks consist of just a whey with water or sometimes just almonds.

Looking forward to your feedback. Thanks.

Trench · #6 07-02-2008, 09:56 PM

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My comment about the carbs still remains. But cardio is another subject.

You don't need to overkill on the cardio. Do only as much as is necessary. What I do is just 10-15 minutes low intensity cardio after weights, and 5-10 pre-weights for warm up. Does not seem like much but it adds up and its easy to adhere too. It's also perfect for active recovery.

I really don't buy the cardio on an empty stomach. But I would include 2-3 cardio sessions weekly on a cut.

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Venom, can you go more into detail with what you mean my low intensity cardio afterwards. Example? I hate cardio with a passion and would like to know how you do what you do..

I hit cardio three days a week in the mornings. Its something I dont look forward to doing. I may adjust based on what you suggest. Thanks. [img]/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Venom · #7 07-02-2008, 10:00 PM

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I assume the 2-3 cardio sessions you refer to in your last paragraph are seperate from the 10-15 minutes you suggest post weight?

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yeah

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I'm still not clear about doing a PWO shake with whey and pb instead of whey and sugar?

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read window of opportunity nutrition section...

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Also, can I do just whey as a mid-day snack or do I need to add fat to it?

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I always combine either fats or carbs with proteins, for their protein sparring effects. Just make it work within the scheme of your diet.

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I'm trying to eliminate the gut so I've been very low calories lately, so my two mid-day snacks consist of just a whey with water or sometimes just almonds.

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Have you tried essential amino acids? This is a great way to lower calories and still get the same anabolic response. I have essential amino and fish oil pills between meals for instance.

Venom · #8 07-02-2008, 10:01 PM

Trench,

An example would be walking 3.5 MPH.

dtg · #9 07-03-2008, 01:13 AM

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Have you tried essential amino acids? This is a great way to lower calories and still get the same anabolic response. I have essential amino and fish oil pills between meals for instance.

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No, I have not. I take BCAAs upon waking up (just before my workout) then I follow with whey.

Are you saying I should substitute EAAs for whey protein during the day?

My question really is: Let's say I drink a whey shake with water and down 2000mg of fish oil... is this sufficient to be counted as a "meal" and will this "meal" keep my metabolism going --- or do I actually need to eat whole foods that require my body to digest in order for it to count as a meal and keep my metabolism going?

Venom · #10 07-03-2008, 01:26 AM

I'd count that as a meal. But again, it depends on your caloric intake. If that is all your diet allows calories wise, than that is a good meal.

Yes, you can seperate EAA for whey. One technique is to have EAA between meals. I.E. if you have 5 whole meals daily, have eaas between those meals.