Research Question of the Week - What is Knowledge? And How do we know?

[Venom]

We all claim to know or understand something.

Most of the members on ABC, advocate having dextrose and maltodextrin post exercise.

Many others on this site claim to know that the bible is true, and everything in it.

But how do we know what we know?

How do we validate what we advocate to others?

For instance, recently, myself and the other moderators have had the displeasure of dealing with some bodybuilders, who to put it bluntly, are completely vein. These people claim that the only way you can know what works for bodybuilders, is to either have competed or be “huge” whatever that means. And they refuse to listen to any other piece of advice against all reason or logic.

What do you guys think of this mentality?

To sum up my question this week, how do you guys know whether something is true or not, or whether it is garbage advice? What makes advice sound, or not sound to you? And, what sources do you use to obtain your own knowledge.

I hope to write an article on this in the next issue of JHR. I think it is pivotal that we understand this topic.

Let me say, there is no right or wrong answer. There are many ways of "knowing' and acquiring knowledge. I am just interested in what methods you guys use. And hopefully, this will make people more cognizant when analyzing advices.

If you need any help, I highly advise studying this article, A Systematic Annihilation of Pseudo “Scientific” Arguments

[newbuilder]

Venom,
Thank you for posting this, I was just pondering this tonight.
After reading and being inspired by the Proverbs4:5 "Get wisdom, get understanding:", I became motivated and enlivened to update my knowledge and understanding in bodybuilding.

How about the saying that goes something like :
You really know you are knowedgeable in something when someone asks you a question and you can confidently answer "I don't know"

This has been the approach that I have been taking when delving into the Advanced Nutrition articles here on this website, and then doing what I can to utilize.

Something that all the article have in common are References. This implies to me that every article is not actually an original or new piece of knowledge, but a selective collaboration of the collected knowledge of many other people who have come before. Is the latest and greatest new information that we receive on bodybuilding really latest and greatest or even in fact new?

Another question to ask - what came first? Knowledge or understanding?
Is understanding gained through the collection of knowledge? Or is knowledge the fruit of understanding?

There are many questions to ask and I really don't know how to tell the validity and truth of any of the information that I receive on this website or anywhere else for that matter on bodybuilding.

[Njari]

[ QUOTE ]
We all claim to know or understand something.

Most of the members on ABC, advocate having dextrose and maltodextrin post exercise.

Many others on this site claim to know that the bible is true, and everything in it.

But how do we know what we know?

How do we validate what we advocate to others?

For instance, recently, myself and the other moderators have had the displeasure of dealing with some bodybuilders, who to put it bluntly, are completely vein. These people claim that the only way you can know what works for bodybuilders, is to either have competed or be “huge” whatever that means. And they refuse to listen to any other piece of advice against all reason or logic.

What do you guys think of this mentality?

To sum up my question this week, how do you guys know whether something is true or not, or whether it is garbage advice? What makes advice sound, or not sound to you? And, what sources do you use to obtain your own knowledge.

I hope to write an article on this in the next issue of JHR. I think it is pivotal that we understand this topic.

Let me say, there is no right or wrong answer. There are many ways of "knowing' and acquiring knowledge. I am just interested in what methods you guys use. And hopefully, this will make people more cognizant when analyzing advices.

If you need any help, I highly advise studying this article, A Systematic Annihilation of Pseudo “Scientific” Arguments

[/ QUOTE ]

How can we discern if something is true? Well we need to set up some definitions first--the issue here is physical truth (as opposed to moral truth, which is measured by a different standard--the character of God). The best definition of physical truth that I have heard is "that which conforms to reality."

So, if I want to know if something is true, we need to ask if the statement conforms to reality (which is objective, and not influenced by will, desire, or personal experience--there is only <u>one</u> reality). One way to stest if something conforms to reality is to test it via the scientific method. I prefer this method to examine postulates.

Example (inspired by Venom's article on "Pseudoscience"):
Statement: Arnie is huge and smoked weed, so lighting up does not hinder you from getting huge."

What I first do is translate this observation into a hypothesis: "Smoking weed does not completely abrogate muscle development."

Now test it: Have someone smoke weed (Arnold already did this). Did they develop muscle? YES!!!

Conclusion: the hypothesis is true!

Now, I form a new hypothesis: "Smoking weed does not hinder muscle development."(this is a subtle yet crucial modification of the first hypothesis).

Test it: This would require a well controlled (perhaps double blind: smoking real dope vs. smoking fake dope) study with enough participants for statistical significance.

Conclusions would be drawn on these data, leading to a new hypothesis.

The bottom line: one should treat anecdota evidence (Arnold did it, so...) as an observation from which to form a hypothesis, NOT data from which to draw a conclusion.

[AZIronMine]

I have two favorite quotes from Albert Einstein, who I view as one of the most brilliant scientific minds of our time:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge"

and perhaps more on topic...

"I want to know God's thoughts. The rest are just details."

[Venom]

AZIronMine,

Welcome to ABC!

Could you tell us what your thoughts are on those quotes? Thanks!

And great posts guys, I am going to coment more later. [img]/forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[President Wilson]

[ QUOTE ]
The bottom line: one should treat anecdotal evidence (Arnold did it, so...) as an observation from which to form a hypothesis, NOT data from which to draw a conclusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Beautifully written!

[AZIronMine]

[ QUOTE ]
AZIronMine,

Welcome to ABC!

Could you tell us what your thoughts are on those quotes? Thanks!

And great posts guys, I am going to coment more later. [img]/forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
I do not pretend to be a philosopher, but I have followed Albert Einstein as a combination of curiousity and in admiration.

As to the quote regarding imagination, my interpretation is that knowledge is specific and discrete. It can be attributed to individual experience, validation of other's experience, and in some cases careful reasoning and assertion.

Yet, I thought that Einstein also recognized our purpose goes beyond that of knowledge. We have to also think somewhat beyond. Hence, imagination.

As to the last, I think it is almost self-explanatory. Einstein might or might not have been a religious man, but I believe that he recognized something/someone was beyond him and beyond the questions of physics and mathematics. Even the most abstract questions of: "What is the universe and how did we come to be ?" cannot currently be answered by other than theory. Its more about believing and feelng, and whether you follow the paradigm of God or the paradigm of science.

If we believe in God, then we can perhaps assume that what God thinks is what is ultimately important. In some manner, knowledge helps us to learn and become more comfortable with our surroundings and things that we have no control over (history, nature, space, ontology).

My apologies for rambling and again, I caveat that I do not claim in any manner to be a philosopher, theologist, scientist or intellectual. I'm just a believer.

[jth16]

First off I would like to comment that this is one of the many reasons why I love ABC. It isn't only focusing on improving your body, but it also makes you brainstorm and think abstractly.

[ QUOTE ]
To sum up my question this week, how do you guys know whether something is true or not, or whether it is garbage advice? What makes advice sound, or not sound to you? And, what sources do you use to obtain your own knowledge.


[/ QUOTE ]

In my highly uneducated opinion, to deteremine whether something is factual or not it must have some form of evidence backing the validity of the statement.

The credentials and history of the person, or database that I am acquiring the information from impact whether or not I accept the given information as true or not. If the person or database has little or no credentials, and or has a history of giving false information then I would immediately disreguard the information or do some research of my own if I thought the information could have any truth to it.

Also, personal experience allows me to determine whether or not information is factual or not. For example, I have gone to church all of my life. I know the information commandments, and I have known I need him in my life to achieve eternal salvation since I was very young, but until the summer going into 9th grade did I finally accept Jesus as my Lord and Saviour. I had known the information, I had seen other people around me with Him in their lives, but I had not yet had a personal experience with him. After I did, it lead me to fully believe in Jesus and the Bible in its entirety. I still continue to see factual, physcial, mental, and spiritual evidence that Jesus Christ is alive and working, which affirms even moreso my beliefs.

[ QUOTE ]
Most of the members on ABC, advocate having dextrose and maltodextrin post exercise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I use maltodextrin and dextrose post workout.
How do I know that this is the most optimal post workout nutrition? I have several forms of evidence backing my belief.

1. The article is backed by many sources by highly accredited scientist.

2. After I implemented maltodextrin and dextrose into my post workout shake, I noticed that I gained muscle faster, and I felt like I had more energy after my workouts.

3. I see testimonials from many of my ABC brothers.


I hope my insight can help in some way.

Jordan

[Njari]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The bottom line: one should treat anecdotal evidence (Arnold did it, so...) as an observation from which to form a hypothesis, NOT data from which to draw a conclusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Beautifully written!

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks, I appreciate it!

The nature of truth is fascinating to me--as an aspiring scientist, my "job" is to discern truth, but even this is becoming increasingly opposed to the popular worldview as our culture becomes more postmodern ("What is true for you is not necessarily true for me.") The Christian community is starting to mount a response to this perverted logic--I know focus on the family is starting something called the "Truth Project," (here is the website). Also, my Dad just finished writing a novel built around the dangers of postmodern thought (he is also finishing a book on why US-Isreali relations are critical to our nation's future). (I would talk more about the books, but I don't know if this would count as "advertising"--I don't want to abuse the forum.)

[newbuilder]

I am going to go there,
Because many here are believers in the way,
Question it, the Lord says our physical presence is going to take the shape he has defined, must we make rebuttle?
How do we know that the Lord encourages or even supports bodybuilding?