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  #11  
Old 11-01-2005, 02:59 AM
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Default Re: Research Question of the Week: How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet

[ QUOTE ]
Question: What ratio of fats would be best on a cut?

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean PCF, or the ratio of monsolys:saturated.

[ QUOTE ]

If one were to take a minimal fat diet would it counter-act any intake of longer lipids, since the decrease would lower the amount of cholesterol which would result in a lower amount of cholesterol in the lipid bi-layer allowing for more flexibility and thus allowing it to become more permeable? Resulting in a higher oxidization in the long run, And through these long side chain lipids you would therefore increase the amount of anabolic hormoes?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is hard to answer this without knowing what fats are low and what fats are high. So I would need more specifics.
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  #12  
Old 11-01-2005, 03:43 AM
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Default Re: Research Question of the Week: How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet

I learned a lot reading the original post, but I'll be honest. .... I am clueless and have nothing to add!
[img]/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #13  
Old 11-04-2005, 06:59 AM
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Default Re: Research Question of the Week: How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet

I know this won't really help because research stuff is not my strong point, but I was looking at articles trying to find some info about this and I found one article that seems to be relevant, but I can't find the full-text version. I know, it's stupid of me to judge based on the abstract alone, but it's all I've got right now. Perhaps you have some magical research article powers and you can find the full text...if not, I'll keep looking. Anyway, here's what the abstract says:

"There is considerable epidemiological evidence that a Western-style diet may increase the risk of certain hormone-dependent conditions in men via its effects on hormone metabolism. Experimental evidence also suggests that dietary factors may exert subtle effects on hormone metabolism. Here we review the clinical and epidemiological evidence that diet is associated with circulating sex hormone levels in men. In comparison with factors such as age and BMI, nutrients do not appear to be strong determinants of sex hormone levels. Dietary intervention studies have not shown that a change in dietary fat and/or dietary fibre intake is associated with changes in circulating sex hormone concentrations over the short term. The data on the effects of dietary phyto-oestrogens on sex hormone levels in men are too limited for conclusions to be drawn. Observational studies between men from different dietary groups have shown that a vegan diet is associated with small but significant increases in sex-hormone-binding globulin and testosterone concentrations in comparison with meat-eaters. However, these studies have not demonstrated that variations in dietary composition have any long-term important effects on circulating bioavailable sex hormone levels in men. This lack of effect may be partly explained by the body's negative feedback mechanism, which balances out small changes in androgen metabolism in order to maintain a constant level of circulating bioavailable androgens. It appears, therefore, that future studies should look for dietary effects on the feedback mechanism itself, or on the metabolism of androgens within the target tissues."

Article: The effects of diet on circulating sex hormone levels in men
Authors: Allen-NE; Key-TJ
Nutrition-Research-Reviews (NUTR-RES-REV) 2000 Dec; 13(2): 159-84 (159 ref)

Just based on this info, does this agree with what you told me earlier, Venom?
-endless
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  #14  
Old 11-04-2005, 10:43 AM
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Default Re: Research Question of the Week: How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Question: What ratio of fats would be best on a cut?

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean PCF, or the ratio of monsolys:saturated.

[ QUOTE ]

If one were to take a minimal fat diet would it counter-act any intake of longer lipids, since the decrease would lower the amount of cholesterol which would result in a lower amount of cholesterol in the lipid bi-layer allowing for more flexibility and thus allowing it to become more permeable? Resulting in a higher oxidization in the long run, And through these long side chain lipids you would therefore increase the amount of anabolic hormoes?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is hard to answer this without knowing what fats are low and what fats are high. So I would need more specifics.

[/ QUOTE ]

Monsoly:saturated

Though in hind sigh I can see there really wouldn't be much variation now I read up on some things.
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Old 11-07-2005, 03:24 AM
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Default Re: Research Question of the Week: How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet

Great research endless!!!

That article looks really interesting. I will try to find it in my library.

It definitely is pertinent to this subject, as it discusses the effects of diet—particularly fats—on sex hormones, and also SHBG. That was an interesting comment on negative feedback mechanisms. I have not seen a study that showed an asymptote in increased testosterone and increased fat intake. I.E. would having a diet with 30% saturated fats, produce as much testosterone as a diet with 20% saturated fats? I have only been able to study this indirectly through observation, but I have yet to see a study who’s goal was to examine this question. So that would be a great study. I discussed this with Dr. Brown, and he suggested that ingestion of more fats may not produce more anabolic hormones such as testosterone, as there are to many stages involved. But again, I have yet to see studies which show an asymptote.
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  #16  
Old 11-07-2005, 03:39 AM
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Default Re: Research Question of the Week: How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet

Hey, book [img]/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]


Monsoly:saturated

Though in hind sigh I can see there really wouldn't be much variation now I read up on some things.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would say that is a very difficult question, and partially the purpose of this thread. It needs to be investigated!

I will say this: there is no set optimal dosage for either of those fats.

Wilson, G (2003) covered polyunsaturated fats extensively in his EFA article. He suggested that At least 30% of your daily fat should come from EFAs, while using a a 2:1 and 3:1 ratio of omega-3mega-6. This recommendation was contrary to the mantra that has been spread by numerous others that your omega 6:3 ratio should actually be higher. This was based on clear scientific data suggesting omega 3’s were superior to omega 6’s.

Typically, it is recommended not to have more than 10% of your calories from saturated fats. But this is based on its negative effects. If my research hypothesis is correct, that medium chain triglycerides can elicit the anabolic benefits of saturated fats without these negative effects, that would destroy the entire foundation of this recommendation.

Another issue is that bodybuilders often increase their saturated fats to enhance testosterone production during bulks, and decrease them to avoid fat gain during cuts. But again, studies on MCT may change this mindset.

Monounsaturated fats have been associated with improved cardiovascular health in various studies, so most are strong advocates of its use.

But the optimal ratio is something I have not determined, yet. One of our goals this year in JHR is to discuss Saturated fats, Monounsaturated fats, Polyunsaturated fats, and MCT’s. Within we want to cover their benefits, side effects, and the optimal dosage for each, and if this would vary during cutting and bulking phases. Further, we plan to break down individual fats within these classes (i.e. omega 3 vs. 6 polyunsaturated fats). So stay tuned!
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Matthew 7:20
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
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  #17  
Old 11-07-2005, 05:25 AM
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Default Re: Research Question of the Week: How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet

This is bringing back memories. I remember a REALLY REALLY old post on bulking that reccomended 'Heavy Cream' as a fat source since it was high in MCT's. Now research is actually backing it up [img]/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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  #18  
Old 11-07-2005, 06:53 AM
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Default Re: Research Question of the Week: How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet

hi, I have a couple of questions:

1. How much saturated fat should one aim to consume on a daily basis (what % of their total fat calories should come from fat intake)? Is it ok to have foods like heavy cream replace flax oil once in a while because of the benifits offered (increase in anabolic hormones) by saturated fats? and by once in a while i mean: for one protein/fat meal once a week or so. what would be good sources of saturated fat? whole cheese and other dairy products? or meat?

2. Is fresh coconut flesh a good source of MCTs? Are MCTs good to consume while bulking also? should I consume them from food sources or get a supplement that has pure MCT?

Thanks so much for your help and sharing your knowledge.
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  #19  
Old 11-07-2005, 05:39 PM
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Default Re: Research Question of the Week: How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet

Would eating medium chain TGs actually inhibit to a certain degree your body's ability to burn fat it has stored? Or would it speed this up a bit?
I'm thinking, if your diet contains these fats that are more quickly oxidized, will your body use these up first (not taking into account carb oxidation), then call on fat stores for energy?

I would be interested to see an article that talks about the mechanism fat stores in the body are broken down for energy. At what point do they get tapped into?

I'll try to find an article discussing this, but if someone knows of one, I'd appreciate a heads up.
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  #20  
Old 11-07-2005, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: Research Question of the Week: How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet

Hi, Grimm!

To your first question, as I told book, the optimal ratio is something we are still investigating.

But there is no question about this: saturated fats need to be included in your diet if you want optimal results. So yes, if you want to add some that is perfectly fine. Those types you choose would work good.

I know Old School has supplemented with them before, so it would be awesome to hear what he used, his results, and any more information he could add. [img]/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Concerning your second question, coconut oil is an excellent source. And, yes, they would be excellent to have on a bulk-- especially if my research hypothesis is correct.
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Gabriel "Venom" Wilson, Ph.D. Nutritional Sciences
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Matthew 7:20
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
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