Tuf, elle, Sicily, others? I have a question about defining "gaining muscle" (long) - ABCbodybuilding

Go Back   ABCbodybuilding > Iron, Metal, & Steel!! > Female Specific Athletic Forum

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-19-2003, 07:54 PM
Jenn Jenn is offline
Jenn should change his/her status!
Middleweight
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 891
Default Tuf, elle, Sicily, others? I have a question about defining \"gaining muscle\" (long)

On another board I frequent a member wrote this:

"Hello,
I have been on Atkins for a year and have lost pretty much to my goal. Even with all the weight loss my body is flabby and lumpy, Im thin but not really looking like I had dreamed....lol.
Anyway I would like to try to add some muscle under my flab and lower my bodyfat % which I think is pretty high.
I have been reading about weight lifting and lowcarbing and found some info about the Ketogenic Diet, and it is saying that it is difficult to add muscle doing Atkins type diets? That muscles need carbs to grow? It is basically low carb mon-fri and then a 36 hr carb load on the weekends to replenish glycogen for the weeks workouts?
Is this true? I just would not like unleashing the carb monster even for 36 hrs a week. It would seem that with all the protien on Atkins it would be easy to add muscle."

So I wrote:
"yes, you do need carbs to build muscle. But carefully planned, complex carbs."

Someone else replied:
"I disagree. I wasn't blessed genetically and even if I were, according to the "you need carbs for muscle gain" theory, even genetically blessed people wouldn't gain muscle on a low-carb diet."

I wrote back:
"My experience has been that I cannot gain muscle on low-carb. I can reduce my bodyfat and save LBM on low-carb but actually putting on LBM while eating less than 100 carbs a day doesn't work for me. "

Her reply:
"Very true since your experience was different from mine. My experience is that I was able to "gain" muscle and lose fat on 40-70 grams of carbs a day while working out with weights. I dropped 2 pants sizes without dropping a single pound on the scale. "

So, I am confused. Obviously when men put on muscle they get bigger, right? When women put on muscle they get smaller?

I have 12 in. biceps. I want to add 2 inches so they are as big as my calves. I'm going to be bigger, right?

The original poster replied:
"My goal is not to be really muscular, just fit looking and firm. I am trying to put together a weight program with my home gym machine, and free weights."

So she doesn't want to add muscle.

Is it just semantics here or am I really that dopey.

Jenn

__________________
Jenn
Age: 39
Weight: 150 Height: 5'7"

Jenn's Journal
  #2  
Old 08-19-2003, 08:13 PM
Tuf Tuf is offline
Tuf should change his/her status!
Mr. Universe
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Uncomfortable Zone
Posts: 9,298
Default Re: Tuf, elle, Sicily, others? I have a question about defining \"gaining muscle\" (long)

Hey, Jenn. [img]/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

To be honest with you, I do not feel qualified or experienced enough to answer all of your questions. I will do my best to direct you to some information that can help you though!

Regarding carbohydrates and building muscle, President Wilson said:
[ QUOTE ]
The important thing to understand about carbs is that they have a " protein sparring " effect. Which means when your body has enough carbs to fuel itself, it will be able to more fully utilize amino acids for the maintenance, repair and growth of muscle tissues. This is why carbs are so vital to a bodybuilder who is trying to gain mass. In edition, eating too few carbohydrates can leave your muscles feeling and looking flat. Muscle fullness depends, to a large extent, on the glycogen stores within them. Likewise, your vascularity also depends on your carbohydrate intake. A prime example of this can perhaps be traced to your last cutting or dieting cycle. When dieting your veins disappear between meals and appear after meals. Top bodybuilders note that ingesting some simple sugars before a competition brings out their vascularity.
Carbohydrates are also chiefly responsible for inducing the release of our bodies most anabolic hormone, Insulin! As I have stated many times before, insulin literally shuttles amino acids and other vital nutrients into our muscles for growth. However, insulin is also the chief hormone responsible for fat storage. My suggestion is to stay as clean as possible with your carbohydrate intake. Eat clean starchy carbs such as sweet potatoes and oatmeal. Also eat fibrous green carbs such as lettuce, spinach and any other green veggy. Stay far away from anything that is bleached or processed such as white bread, candy, white rice and other carbs along those lines. Cleaner, fibrous carbs digest slowly and do not induce an overproduction of insulin. Hence you get a steady even stream of this hormone, reaping the anabolic effects of it, while suppressing the fat storing side of it. Remember processed foods usually always induce an overproduction of insulin.

[/ QUOTE ]

and this:

[ QUOTE ]
Insulin has been touted as our bodies most anabolic( muscle building ) hormone! It shuttles nutrients such as carbs, amino acids and creatine right smack into our muscles, suppresses cortisol and places our body into a state of anabolism! However as mentioned in my article " Take fat burning to the next level " it also increases fat storage. The prime macronutrient responsible for the release of insulin is the carbohydrate. The key during this bulk will be to take advantage of times during the day in which your body is unlikely to store fat and during this time take advantage of a larger burst of insulin. ( see this article to further understand this principle ) The two main meals you need to be concerned with are breakfast and post workout. These are the two meals in which you need to let your hair down. I suggest a large carb breakfast. Ideally a large bowl of cereal with a few apples or yogurt. ( I will discuss what goes with this in the sample meal plan below ) If you are a hardgainer and use high calorie weight gainers, now is the time to consume them. Because these types of meals will not likely be stored as fat during breakfast. Your post workout meals should contain a large amount of sugar! Nothing fibrous or fatty at all. Just pure sugar and of course protein. The rest of your meals should contain extremely slow burning carbs! Carbs such as leafy green vegetables, brown rice, sweet potatoes, apples, strawberries and oatmeal. You want a mellow steady dose of insulin throughout the rest of the day. Besides post workout and semi for breakfast avoid high insulin spikes! It is at other times during the day when your body is more susceptible to storing fat. In fact if you have a higher tendency for fat storage only consume vegetables for your last 2-3 meals. And on your off days only consume slow burning carbs and again vegetables for your last 2 meals. Insulin is extremely anabolic! I mean extremely, just be responsible with how you manipulate its release!
The carbohydrate is also our bodies chief source of fuel! And if we intend to grow, we need lots of fuel to get us to those goals! If you are carbed up you will have way more energy for your workouts. Your carbohydrate stores will be increased and due to this you will be able to be more intense and actually list heavier and use higher reps, had you been carb depleted. More intensity and strength will undoubtedly lead to higher gains in the muscular department!


[/ QUOTE ]

__________________
<font color="blue">We taped a lot of famous pictures on the locker-room door: Bobby Orr, Potvin, Beliveau, all holding the Stanley Cup. We'd stand back and look at them and envision ourselves doing it. I really believe if you visualize yourself doing something, you can make that image come true...I must have rehearsed it ten thousand times. And when it came true it was like an electric jolt went up my spine.</font>
-Wayne Gretzky

http://www.rhondariley.com/009/thumbs/005.jpg
"When prepping for a show, I look at my body as my grade and the training and diet as my homework. If I do my homework I will get a good grade."
-Rhonda Riley

<font color="009999">Click Here for ABC's Forum Rules</font>
<font color="purple">Click Here for ABC's Index of Bible Studies</font>
  #3  
Old 08-19-2003, 08:45 PM
Venom's Avatar
Venom Venom is offline
Venom is training, researching, or talking on ABC
Vice President Abcbodybuilding.com
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The Pain Zone
Posts: 19,500
Default Re: Tuf, elle, Sicily, others? I have a question about defining \"gaining muscle\" (long)

[ QUOTE ]
Her reply:
"Very true since your experience was different from mine. My experience is that I was able to "gain" muscle and lose fat on 40-70 grams of carbs a day while working out with weights. I dropped 2 pants sizes without dropping a single pound on the scale. "

[/ QUOTE ]

First, it's obvious this person is a newbi with little knowledge. Newbes can get gains doing just about anything.

Secondly, yes you can gain mass on low carb diets. But, it would be a much less effective, and takes way longer.

Also, you don't want to stay on low carb for to long. Read this months mag, endocrine insanity III by Yu Yevon.

[ QUOTE ]
So, I am confused. Obviously when men put on muscle they get bigger, right? When women put on muscle they get smaller?

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Who told you this?

[ QUOTE ]
I have 12 in. biceps. I want to add 2 inches so they are as big as my calves. I'm going to be bigger, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your biceps will be bigger. But it doesn't mean other body parts will, or that your overall size will increase.

[ QUOTE ]
The original poster replied:
"My goal is not to be really muscular, just fit looking and firm. I am trying to put together a weight program with my home gym machine, and free weights."

So she doesn't want to add muscle.

[/ QUOTE ]

If she wants to look fit, and firm, she will need to add muscle.

What I would do, since its obvious this person has never trained before. Is put her on a very basic weight/cardio program. And get her diet set, 6 balanced meals a day, of carbs, proteins and fats.
__________________
Gabriel "Venom" Wilson, Ph.D. Nutritional Sciences
B.S. (Hons) & M.S. in Kinesiology, CSCS
Vice President, ABCbodybuilding
Co-Editor. of JHR

Venom@abcbodybuilding.com
Bible Studies
Click Here to Support the Future of Bodybuilding!


Matthew 7:20
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
  #4  
Old 08-19-2003, 09:23 PM
Jenn Jenn is offline
Jenn should change his/her status!
Middleweight
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 891
Default Re: Tuf, elle, Sicily, others? I have a question about defining \"gaining muscle\" (long)


[ QUOTE ]
So, I am confused. Obviously when men put on muscle they get bigger, right? When women put on muscle they get smaller?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
[img]/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Who told you this? [ QUOTE ]


I was referring to how the poster dropped 2 pants sizes and didn't lose a lb. I guess her point was that she dropped BF and put on LBM and it was somehow an equal ratio. She "gained muscle" but got smaller, all at the same time I don't know why she doesn't think she is genetically blessed (sarcasm here LOL.)

I ended up recommending BFL to the original poster.


__________________
Jenn
Age: 39
Weight: 150 Height: 5'7"

Jenn's Journal
  #5  
Old 08-19-2003, 09:30 PM
Venom's Avatar
Venom Venom is offline
Venom is training, researching, or talking on ABC
Vice President Abcbodybuilding.com
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The Pain Zone
Posts: 19,500
Default Re: Tuf, elle, Sicily, others? I have a question about defining \"gaining muscle\" (long)

Hey Jenn. [img]/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
I was referring to how the poster dropped 2 pants sizes and didn't lose a lb. I guess her point was that she dropped BF and put on LBM and it was somehow an equal ratio. She "gained muscle" but got smaller, all at the same time I don't know why she doesn't think she is genetically blessed (sarcasm here LOL.)



[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I thought. Both men and women can do this. When you're new to the sport, its possible for you to actually gain mass, and lose fat at the same time. Which is optimal, but once you get advanced, you will have to add some fat to gain serious mass.
__________________
Gabriel "Venom" Wilson, Ph.D. Nutritional Sciences
B.S. (Hons) & M.S. in Kinesiology, CSCS
Vice President, ABCbodybuilding
Co-Editor. of JHR

Venom@abcbodybuilding.com
Bible Studies
Click Here to Support the Future of Bodybuilding!


Matthew 7:20
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
  #6  
Old 08-20-2003, 11:25 AM
Elle Elle is offline
Elle should change his/her status!
Light-Heavyweight
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,933
Default Re: Tuf, elle, Sicily, others? I have a question about defining \"gaining muscle\" (long)

Gain muscle and get smaller? lol Obviously this person never bulked! Yes you can get smaller while gaining muscle...or should I clarify....you gain the appearance of muscles (cuts) from underneath the fat layer that the person is losing!

This woman is a newbie and just wants to tone...

Jenn....you want 2 inches to your bi's? It will take a little while...but don't give up cause eventually it will happen! I have difficulty adding to my bi's and I gain muscle very easily. Check out the 24 mass workout blitz and the diet!

As for complex carbs...I know when I haven't eaten enough of them. I get tired and "brain-lazy"...lol
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.