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  #31  
Old 04-01-2003, 04:52 PM
caligirly caligirly is offline
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Default Re: Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?......

That sounds pretty identicle to my diet. I feel great, healthy, don't get sick ever, and lose fat but gain muscle. I think your fine. The only difference is I usually eat tuna, or something with omega 6 fats before bed, not PB. But whatever works for you.

You should eat more salad, burns a lot more calories.
Good Luck.
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  #32  
Old 04-01-2003, 05:15 PM
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Default Re: Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?......

[ QUOTE ]
OldSchool said:
Again, this is absolutely no slam on Krypto. Her knowldege on nutrition is insane! There are good arguements on both sides of this debate. I just wanted to present mine!

Good luck with whatever you decide! [img]/forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

thank you! well i'm going to need it as i have no idea what to do... if i do the dextrose in my post workout shake i need to cut calories somewhere else to fit it in, and that i need to figure out!

you could never slam krypto... she's too friggin awesome! [img]/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
  #33  
Old 04-01-2003, 06:14 PM
Adam Knowlden Adam Knowlden is offline
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Default Re: Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?......

[ QUOTE ]
you could never slam krypto... she's too friggin awesome

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh course not! [img]/forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] I just don't want people to get the wrong impression. Krypto's awesome.

[ QUOTE ]
if i do the dextrose in my post workout shake i need to cut calories somewhere else to fit it in, and that i need to figure out!


[/ QUOTE ]

What are you doing now for post-workout?

Sorry I don't know your diet or weight, so it's hard to help! [img]/forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
  #34  
Old 04-01-2003, 07:12 PM
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Default Re: Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?......

[ QUOTE ]
OldSchool said:
What are you doing now for post-workout?

Sorry I don't know your diet or weight, so it's hard to help! [img]/forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

right now its just a whey protein shake. i "was" slamming it down in about 5 minutes time... until i read your article. i do have dextrose but i am scared to use it because of the calories and carb #'s i see at the end of the day. i am cutting and am trying to eat at least 1800 calories per day and not over 2000 per day. i am usually hitting a 40/30/30 pcf ratio at about 1900 calories. i eat around 300-400 calories per meal. i like to eat so its hard to try and cut something out to fit in the 40g of dextrose for cutting (i did the calculation [img]/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) and not feel like i'm not eating enough at my other meals. that probably sounds silly as i probably just need to slightly decrease my calorie intake through the entire day or something easy like that right? but i have tried and its hard to not feel deprived of even a few calories sometimes. [img]/forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

does that help/make sense? [img]/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
  #35  
Old 04-01-2003, 07:47 PM
Adam Knowlden Adam Knowlden is offline
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Default Re: Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?......

[ QUOTE ]
right now its just a whey protein shake.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, first thing is regardless of which type of carb you take, carb intake post-workout is crucial to replenishing glycogen stores.

So, with either form of carbs, you will need to allot calories somewhere.

There are 4 calories for 1 gram of carbs so with a 40 gram intake post-workout you are taking in 160 calories from the carbs.

So say you are eating 4 other meals per day(not counting breakfast or post-workout-I don't recommend cutting from those) you could subtract 40 calories from carbs from your other 4 meals and end up at your goal calorie range.

Also, if you know your BF% find out your LBM and use that as the criteria for calculating how much simple carbs to take in post-workout. I meant to add that in the article, but on a cut this is important to consider.That will reduce the amount you need.

But like I said, whatever you do, defenietly take in a carb source with your protein post workout. So with either system you'll have to allow for these excess cals.

Like Krypto said:

[ QUOTE ]
You SHOULD be eating carbs post workout, your muscles NEED it, they need to replenish their glycogen stores.


[/ QUOTE ]

I hope that helped!
  #36  
Old 04-01-2003, 08:12 PM
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Default Re: Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?......

that helped alot adam thank you! [img]/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] (your friggin awesome too!!)

i will have to check back in my notes but i think i should be taking in 30g carbs post-workout based on my lbm so that will help only cutting 30 carbs from my other 4 meals instead of 40. 10 carbs are 10 carbs ya know! [img]/forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

i see the light... haha thanks to you and krypto.
  #37  
Old 04-02-2003, 03:55 AM
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Default Re: Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?......

Wow Adam, everything you said is so crystal clear to me now and it all makes perfect sense. Thanks for making it so clear!

I have always had carbs post workout but I've just never done the PURE sugar thing BY ITSELF. I will usually have a combination. Like, I may eat a granola bar which contains about 16 grams of sugar along WITH a sweet potato. So I never completely disagreed with not having ANY sugar post workout, or maybe I did? [img]/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Anyway, I realized your reasoning for simple carbs (even before you explained it), I just couldn't advocate taking in a LOT of SUGAR. But then when you explained exactly how to ingest it afterwards, in a certain timeframe, that, I am more comfortable with. I actually agreed with most of what you had to say before you made it even clearer, I just couldn't get past the idea of drinking like 30 or 40 grams of PURE SUGAR after a workout. I do know that your body is in such a catabolic state that it's very highly unlikely that you'd store any fat but my dilemma was with being worried about how much is too much for ME as well as others I advise. So rather than try to guess, I felt it safer for ME to just NOT ingest a bunch of sugar and take a chance on it being too much or having it stop fat burning for too long. And if other women asked me what I do, I would advise them the same way for the same reasons I was doing it. Ya know?

So now you say it is okay to ingest about 2.5 grams of SIMPLE (as in PURE SUGAR) carbs (on a cut, heck, I don't think I could bring myself to go higher even on a bulk!) per 10 lbs of LEAN muscle mass? AND... that if I consume half of that amount right away, then sip at it slowly drawing it out to 45 to 60 min til I finish it all, that that is the right amount for MY body as in none stored as fat and fat burning will continue not long thereafter? That DOES sound very reasonable. Just curious tho, where did you come across such info? Was that based on studies done? You know me, always wanting to know my sources, not that I don't believe you, I just like knowing where the info came from. [img]/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] But anyway, it really does sound reasonable and I guess I'd be willing to give it a try.

So, if I wanted to try this, I would need to have, according to my lean mass of 118 lbs, about 30 grams of SUGAR (uggg, difficult to even THINK about eating just SUGAR!), half of it I would drink right away (so 15 grams) then "milk" the other half for the next hour, right? And you say it is best to mix dextrose or maltdextrose in your protein shake and have it that way? Just confirming. I really am gonna try this. I'm never gonna know til I try and it sounds very reasonable. Then, after that, no more than 2 hours after the protein shake, I have a good meal with whole food protein and a complex carb, right? Now what if I go to bed an hour after my workout? Cause sometimes I will work out real late. Then I guess I just don't get the whole food protein and complex carb meal, huh?

Thanks in advance Adam! Now that you've explained it clearly and gave very reasonable, exact procedures on this subject, I'm gonna give your side a try! Part of the reason I was unwilling before was cause I did not know how much would be too much for me so for me it was better to have none than chance having too much. Also, the info about consuming it afterwards in that time specific manner was something I didn't know, THAT is some good info and gives me more confidence to try it. Once I start doing this (gotta buy some dextrose first), I'll give it 2 months to see how it works then I'll let ya know. [img]/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Thanks again Adam, I probably would have never tried this without your clearing it all up for me, backing it up with solid, logical reasoning. I'm open to anything if it's sound and logical. [img]/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
  #38  
Old 04-02-2003, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?......

Krypto, I am sure Adam could answer this for you, but you asked about going to bed 1 hour after your workout. I have read that the next whole food meal (1 hour later) is important to steady your blood sugar level after the insulin spike. If that is true, I would think it would be essential to stay up and have that meal of protein and a complex carb. Can anyone confirm or debunk this notion?
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  #39  
Old 04-02-2003, 10:22 AM
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Default Re: Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?......

tuf,
I think you're right. I can't remember exactly where I read this but I know I've seen it addressed on the nutrition forum. I'm sure Source or Adam can give us the details.
  #40  
Old 04-02-2003, 04:41 PM
Adam Knowlden Adam Knowlden is offline
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Default Re: Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?......

Hey Krypto!

Well, just so you know, I'm not totally debunking the "complex carb theory" post-workout. There are good arguements on that side. I personally just feel the bad outweighs the good.

[ QUOTE ]
So now you say it is okay to ingest about 2.5 grams of SIMPLE (as in PURE SUGAR) carbs (on a cut, heck, I don't think I could bring myself to go higher even on a bulk!) per 10 lbs of LEAN muscle mass? AND... that if I consume half of that amount right away, then sip at it slowly drawing it out to 45 to 60 min til I finish it all, that that is the right amount for MY body as in none stored as fat and fat burning will continue not long thereafter?

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing about my article is that I provided basic guidelines. I wouldn't consider every number as Holy as the Ten commandments. [img]/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] For example I just provided a basic way to make your shake. There are other options. But the one I wrote in the article is a good solid one.

I would defenietly advocate experimentation with your simple carb numbers and see how your body responds.

For instance if you feel 2.5 is too high for you try 1 or 2 grms. per 10lbs. Many studies give different numbers. I just tried to find a happy medium. Those are the numbers that conincide with mine and Jacobs starting base.(see muscle fibers part 1 and the 13 week diet plan).

[ QUOTE ]
I have always had carbs post workout but I've just never done the PURE sugar thing BY ITSELF.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to clear up I don't advocate sucrose(sugar) but rather dextrose or maltodextrin. They are much better simple carb sources post workout!

[ QUOTE ]
Like, I may eat a granola bar which contains about 16 grams of sugar along WITH a sweet potato

[/ QUOTE ]

Well sugar isn't the best option, stick with dextrose or Maltdex.

Granola and sweet potatoes in my opinion take way to long to absorb.

A lot of research points to 30 minutes being the most optimal time for absorption of post-exercise nutrients to begin.

Replenishing glycogen stores immediately is crucial for body builders. Especially those of us working out 4 or more days a week. We need those replenished stores fast, or catabolism will start even faster the next time we workout.

Offsetting a crucial window of opportunity like post-exercise with delays in absorption, means missing the glycogen recovery time frame this time of day offers. This will mean gluconeogenesis will occur faster in the next workout! [img]/forum/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

On a cut we want to just maintain mass, and lose BF. So this is done better with a moderate amount of carb, to start replenishing glycogen stores and supressing cortisol.

On a bulk we want to increase muscle mass, so a higher amount of post-workout carbs is vital, and post-exercise offers a crucial recovery time to do just that. The more carbs we have in store, the longer it will take to become catabolic during the next training session. Which in turn means we can train harder and longer and not be as catabolic as someone who has less glycogen in storage!

For aiding protein synthesis, replenishing glycogen stores for additonal muscle gaining workouts(it's a cycle. We want to replenish the stores as full and as fast as possible so we can continue pounding our bodies and induce protein synthesis), and rebounding GH levels to the max.


[ QUOTE ]
Then, after that, no more than 2 hours after the protein shake, I have a good meal with whole food protein and a complex carb, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but not a lot of carbs. Like 20-30 grams. You want a meal higher in protein and fat.

[ QUOTE ]
So, if I wanted to try this, I would need to have, according to my lean mass of 118 lbs, about 30 grams of SUGAR (uggg, difficult to even THINK about eating just SUGAR!), half of it I would drink right away (so 15 grams) then "milk" the other half for the next hour, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. You can reduce that amount if you want. For example if your insulin sensitivity is high maybe just go with 25 grams post-workout. At any rate you want carbs with your protein. Also I suggest around 45 mins. for the milking process. The more carbs you take in the longer amount of time to consume your shake.

[ QUOTE ]
Then, after that, no more than 2 hours after the protein shake, I have a good meal with whole food protein and a complex carb, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's my theory(and others may disagree). 30 minutes After the complete end of your shake eat a meal(so about 90 minutes after the immediate dosage of half the shake).The meal should be moderate in carbs, and contain high protein and fat. Moderate in carbs because you don't want to totally supress insulin, because that can upset the process of protein synthesis.

[ QUOTE ]
! Part of the reason I was unwilling before was cause I did not know how much would be too much for me so for me it was better to have none than chance having too much. Also, the info about consuming it afterwards in that time specific manner was something I didn't know, THAT is some good info and gives me more confidence to try it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if there is any specific studies done on that. That is a conclusion I reached after a lot of reading and communicating with some of my online PT friends.

But defenietly excess glucose goes to fat. So overloading your digestion system with 100 grams of simple carbs is one of the main reasons I feel body builders gain fat on their bulks.

Also this coincides with water consumption. You need at least 1 liter of water post-workout. But rapid consumption of large quantities of water can lead to supression of ADH.

So between water consumption and simple carb consumption the obvious conclusion is to slow down the intake of the post-workout shake. So for you try slugging down around 18 grams post-exercise, then sipping on the additonal 17-18 for 45 mins. For you I'd say more around 45 mins. because 18 grams over 60 minutes is nothing really. The more carbs you are taking in the more you should aim for the higher time range.

[ QUOTE ]
I'll give it 2 months to see how it works then I'll let ya know.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cool! I'm anxious to hear! [img]/forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]





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