Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?...... - Page 3 - ABCbodybuilding

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  #21  
Old 03-31-2003, 07:55 PM
Source 101 Source 101 is offline
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Default Re: Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?......

Naw.....
Ya can't get rid of me that easily.
Woman who lift rock!
Gotta love em! [img]/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

  #22  
Old 03-31-2003, 07:58 PM
should change his/her status! Edit
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Default Re: Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?......

[ QUOTE ]
Source 101 said:
Naw.....
Ya can't get rid of me that easily.
Woman who lift rock!
Gotta love em! [img]/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
  #23  
Old 04-01-2003, 12:52 AM
Source 101 Source 101 is offline
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Default Re: Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?......

Hi ladies!
It's me again [img]/forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
I just wanted to direct you the new issue of Beyond Failure Magazine.
There is an awesome article written by Oldschool that I have been waiting for. The article named, "The Window of Opportunity "discusses postworkout nutrition. I think it would be beneficial for everyone to read it for the purpose of educating yourselves. I'm am by no means trying to push the sugar on ya. Just read it for the knowledge.
Obviously, I also recommend reading all the articles from this month and from all the past issues. Happy reading...feed your brain [img]/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
  #24  
Old 04-01-2003, 01:35 AM
should change his/her status! Edit
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Default Re: Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?......

[ QUOTE ]
Source 101 said:
Hi ladies!
It's me again [img]/forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
I just wanted to direct you the new issue of Beyond Failure Magazine.
There is an awesome article written by Oldschool that I have been waiting for. The article named, "The Window of Opportunity "discusses postworkout nutrition. I think it would be beneficial for everyone to read it for the purpose of educating yourselves. I'm am by no means trying to push the sugar on ya. Just read it for the knowledge.
Obviously, I also recommend reading all the articles from this month and from all the past issues. Happy reading...feed your brain [img]/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]


[/ QUOTE ]

Ha! Already read it!
  #25  
Old 04-01-2003, 02:45 AM
enderwigginout enderwigginout is offline
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Default Re: Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?......

Hey source, great smilies (the big one with the tear in his eye and the one bowing down)! Where do you folks get these from?

I'm going to have to read this post carefully when I'm not so brain dead!
  #26  
Old 04-01-2003, 12:36 PM
Source 101 Source 101 is offline
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Default Re: Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?......

enderwig,
These are the sites that I get me smilies from...enjoy! [img]/forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
originally posted by Krypto
http://www.plaudersmilies.com/
http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/.../pageindex.htm
http://home.c2i.net/jmoelnaa/smile/smilies.html

And Krypto...I know you read the article. You're always on top of the game. [img]/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

  #27  
Old 04-01-2003, 03:35 PM
Adam Knowlden Adam Knowlden is offline
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Default Re: Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?......

Hey Krypto like you said, it's up to each person.


I opt for NOT allowing cortisol to run rampant during a time when my calories are already resticted on a cut and muscle eating hormones are at their highest! [img]/forum/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

However, I feel that many people consume their simple carbs too fast, and cause an overprodction of insulin, which in turn either keeps them fat or makes them add fat. That's why I support consuming half of the carbs immediately and cosuming the other half slowly over a hour long time frame.

[ QUOTE ]
Eight subjects were given either a high or low GI meal 3 hours prior to exercise

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't advocate a high GI meal prior to exercise.

Post-workout is the only time simple carbs should be ingested.

[ QUOTE ]
Insulin increases the activity of lipoprotein lipase (LPL), an enzyme which promotes fat storage in muscle and adipose tissue. Insulin also inhibits the action of hormone sensitive lipase, the enzyme responsible for the mobilization of free fatty acids. Simply put, high levels of insulin make it less likely that your body will use stored fat as a fuel source.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes that is true. Except post-workout. Complex carbs combined with fat and protein are optimal all times of the day except post-workout. Overall, the more fibrous and unprocessed the carb, the less likely you will be to store fat.

But post-workout is not like any other time of day.

Your muscle cells are sensitive to insulin and you are very, very unlikely to store fat at this moment ( its almost impossible ). Cortisol levels are highest post-workout.

Whenever cortisol is running rampant(again the amount of cortisol depends upon your intensity, and your post-spike should reflect that! [img]/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ) fat storage is almost impossible. The simplest explaination is that your body is not going to store fat when it's in a starvation mode.

Quote from Jacob:

[ QUOTE ]
Conversely the simpler the carb the more dramatic a release we get. The more dramatic the release the higher your chances will be for fat storage. There is only one case in which a high burst will not cause us to store fat. That case is when your body is low on carb stores and is looking to replenish them. Whenever your body's goal is to replenish your muscle stores, fat storage is extremely unlikely! Therefore it would stand to reason that we will want to take advantage of this and let the anabolic properties of insulin lose! You will find yourself in this situation twice during the day.

1. Breakfast takes place after your body has fasted for up to 6-12 hours, depleted its glycogen stores and the catabolic hormone cortisol is at its highest point. Your goal is to place your body back on the right track. This is literally why people say that breakfast is the most important meal of the day. For if you skip it you will waste muscle at a rate that is absolutely insane! Therefore, breakfast should be a balance of complex carbs and protein to replenish yourself. While dieting I would recommend a big serving of oatmeal and a source of protein such as whey, egg whites or cottage cheese. And you can add some low glycemic fruit because you can take advantage of the situation.

2. Your body is in a serious state of catabolism following a workout and you need to put it back into a positive state of balance! It is intent on stealing protein from your muscles and begging for a source of fast burning carbs to replenish its muscle stores. This is the only time during your diet when I would highly recommend utilizing a high and fast burst of insulin.


[/ QUOTE ]

However, if you are eating clean, you won't need a huge spike. As you've pointed out insulin sensitivity is a huge ally in the post-workout battle. The higher the sensitivity the easier your body will produce insulin and supress cortisol. You just need enough to supress cortisol and rebound GH levels.

My biggest contention with slow buring carbs is the length of time it takes for them to hit the blood stream. We're talking at least an hour, and that's being lenient. In the mean time cortisol is being allowed to do it's job!

Multiple studies have shown that 30 minutes following training is the optimal time for absorption of nutrients.

Westy, you know that I always respect your advice and you are insane attribute to this site!

I agree, it's up to each person. You obviously know what you're doing(just look at your pics!), and many of the females on here dream of looking like you, so I don't want anyone to think I'm slamming your advice! [img]/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Thanks for posting those studies, I'll take a look at those!

My case is that I opt for an immediate supression of cortisol post-workout, even on a cut, and support using the rest of the day's diet for fat burning.


  #28  
Old 04-01-2003, 04:04 PM
Adam Knowlden Adam Knowlden is offline
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Default Re: Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?......

OK, now let me make some responses to those studies.

[ QUOTE ]
Glycogen breakdown is stimulated not only by the absence of insulin, but by the presence of glucagon, which is secreted when blood glucose levels fall below the normal range.


[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree, glucagon is responsible for fat burning and is highest when insulin is at it's lowest.

That is why I advocate slow buring carbs throughout the entire day, except post-workout.

The key to fat burning and muscle maintance is the controlling of insulin release. We need to keep insulin release low. The only exception to this is when the muscle wasting hormone cortisol is running rampant- ie. post-workout.

[ QUOTE ]
Insulin inhibits breakdown of fat in adipose tissue by inhibiting the intracellular lipase that hydrolyzes triglycerides to release fatty acids.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, I totally agree. But I don't feel this reprsents the post-workout scenario. Post-workout(from anerobic exercsise), is not a good time to allow glucagon to remain high because of the high levels of cortisol present.

During this time of high cortisol levels, gluconeogenesis is occuring and is literally using muscle proteins as fuel in place of the depleted glycogen, it won't use fat for the glycogen defecits, it will use muscle.

So delaying insulin production for the purpose of allowing glucagon to burn fat is not the best option, <font color="red">in my opinon. </font>

I would opt for higher glucagon levels when my body is not in a catabolic state but an anabolic state. In other words all times of the day except post-workout.

[ QUOTE ]
So, that being the case, I myself, as a personal trainer (someday), would NOT advocate for an obese person to partake in a high amount of simple carbs post workout.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nor would I. I would advocate a super clean diet throughout the day, and a bufferd intake of a dextrose post-workout.

The amount I suggested here:

[ QUOTE ]
I recommend consuming 2.5 grams of carbs per ten pounds of bodyweight on a cut

[/ QUOTE ]

should come from LBM for an obese person.

So if a girl comes in weighing 300lbs. there is NO WAY I would tell her to take in 75 grams of simple carbs post-workout on a cut. I would find her LBM and go from there.

If her LBM was say 140lbs. I would advocate 35 grams of simple carbs post workout on a cut. With only half of that(about 17-18g)taken immediately, while the rest should be taken slowly over an hour long period.

Even then I would reduce that number based upon her intensity levels.

It is doubtful a person 160lbs. overweight is going to be producing a huge amount of cortisol because her energy levels aren't going to allow for that much intensity. While the workout of a 300lb. solid body builder would be very intense and a 75 gram simple carb spike would do very well.

Remember cortisol production will have a big coorealtion to intesity. The insulin spike HAS to refelct that. In this same case I might even cut that total amount in half.

My gerneral recommendation is for hardcore body builders who are pushing the envelope during their training. Defenietly not a sedetary or extrememly overweight person.

[ QUOTE ]
But I also believe that post workout, your muscle cells are so darn sensitive anyway, that ANYTHING you eat will be taken up quite efficiently by the muscle cells, you just might want something not too slow digesting

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Your body is in a starvation mode! Whenever cortisol is high your body will soak up anything. But at best slow buring carbs will take an hour to absorb. I can't think of any that will be fully absorbed in 30 mins or less, and also the fact that they will not induce enough of an insulin release to supress the high cortisol levels quickly enough(even with high insulin sensitivity); which is the main reason for simple carb intake.

I hope that clears up where I am coming from! [img]/forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Here's some sites to check out:

http://newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/zoo00/zoo00366.htm

http://www.spiralnotebook.org/sweettalk/index.html



  #29  
Old 04-01-2003, 04:32 PM
soccerchick soccerchick is offline
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Default Re: Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?......

WOW - good info OldSchool! i just read your responses and your article and my poor brain is on post-workout nutrition overload!!! thanks for the info [img]/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
  #30  
Old 04-01-2003, 04:42 PM
Adam Knowlden Adam Knowlden is offline
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Default Re: Am I Healthy, or am I Not? They told me once, but I forgot?......

No problem! I just wanted to clear up my side a bit!

Again, this is absolutely no slam on Krypto. Her knowldege on nutrition is insane! There are good arguements on both sides of this debate. I just wanted to present mine!

Good luck with whatever you decide! [img]/forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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