New workout tweaking? Help? - ABCbodybuilding

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Old 10-28-2013, 04:07 AM
Thedarkrose Thedarkrose is offline
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Default New workout tweaking? Help?

Hey guys, haven't been here in a while and it seems a bit inactive... But since you guys were always of good advice with great data to back it up.

So anyway, on to the workout; 7 day split(5 with 2 off)

1: - close grip benchpress 4 sets of 12 + 2-3 sets regular grip of 4-6 reps
- superset hammer curl 4 sets of 12 + seated tricep press 4 sets of 12
- barbell curl 5 sets of 12(30sec stretch breaks between sets)
- cable rope overhead pushdown 5 sets of 12(40sec stretch breaks, 20sec/arm)
- seated calf raise 4 sets of 12
- standing machine calf raise 7 sets of 12(80 sec breaks, 20 sec/leg upper/lower calf)


2: - overhead squat 2 sets of 12(as a warmup)
- barbell squat 3-4 sets of 12
- leg press 4 sets of 12
- leg extension/leg curl superset 5 sets of 12(40sec stretch breaks, 20 sec/leg)

3: off or bench/ohp/dead/squat 3-4 sets of 20 (25-50% Max output)

4: - benchpress 2 sets of 12 + 4-5 sets of 3-5
- superset incline dumbbell press/flyes 3 sets of 12
- cable crossover 5 sets of 12(30sec stretch breaks)
- close grip benchpress 3-4 sets of 12
- seated tricep press 4 sets of 12
- cable rope overhead pushdown 5 sets of 12(40sec stretch breaks, 20sec/arm)
(Very subject to change!)

5: - deadlift 2 sets of 12 + 4-5 sets of 3-6
- bent over rows 3 sets of 12
- lat pulldown 3 sets of 12
- seated cable row 5 sets of 12(30sec stretch breaks)
- cable curl or preacher curl 3 sets of 12
- barbell curl 5 sets of 12(30sec stretch break)

6: - overhead shoulder press 2 sets of 12 + 4 sets of 3-6(might be 6 sets of 12 due to shoulder weakness)
- superset upright row + seated lateral raise 3 sets of 12
- Arnold press 5 sets of 12(40sec stretch breaks, 20sec/shoulder)
- standing calf raise 3 sets of 12
- seated calf raise 5 sets of 12(80 sec breaks, 20 sec/leg upper/lower calf)

7: off or bench/ohp/dead/squat 3-4 sets of 20 (25-50% Max output)


Aiming mostly for strength, especially on my bench but I'm thinking about putting on a bit of mass for now as well. I also need to increase my number of pull-ups so I'm thinking about adding 2-3 sets of max rep pull ups/work out. Also I need more core work but not sure where to add it or which exercises to add other than the plank/side plank. I'm probably going to superset to save time?

Last edited by Thedarkrose; 10-29-2013 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:23 PM
arian11 arian11 is offline
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Why are you doing endless sets of biceps and triceps but then only 2 sets of squats and 2 sets of deadlifts? Bigger muscles need more time and effort. And this is especially true if you want to get strong. If you look at strength programs, they have set/rep protocols like 5x5, 6x4, 7x5, 8x4, 10x3, etc. 2 sets of 12 is not going to cut it.

If your primary focus is strength, then I would start each training session with a main lift (squat, bench, deadlift, overhead press). Second exercise will be a compound lift that is an assistance exercise to hit a particular weakness. Then the accessory work after that will be more single joint, hypertrophy typical bodybuilding style work. This should give you a nice balance of strength and size while bringing up any weaknesses you may have specifically. So a typical day could look like:

Back squat - 5x5
Beltless Front squat - 3x5
Leg curls - 4x10
Calf raises - 3x15
Planks
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arian11 View Post
Why are you doing endless sets of biceps and triceps but then only 2 sets of squats and 2 sets of deadlifts? Bigger muscles need more time and effort. And this is especially true if you want to get strong. If you look at strength programs, they have set/rep protocols like 5x5, 6x4, 7x5, 8x4, 10x3, etc. 2 sets of 12 is not going to cut it.

If your primary focus is strength, then I would start each training session with a main lift (squat, bench, deadlift, overhead press). Second exercise will be a compound lift that is an assistance exercise to hit a particular weakness. Then the accessory work after that will be more single joint, hypertrophy typical bodybuilding style work. This should give you a nice balance of strength and size while bringing up any weaknesses you may have specifically. So a typical day could look like:

Back squat - 5x5
Beltless Front squat - 3x5
Leg curls - 4x10
Calf raises - 3x15
Planks
Do this.

Remember strength is in large part neurological. Frequent practice is good. So try to squeeze in extra sets of the main lifts (these can be lighter) on other days of the week aside from the main workout for that lift.
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Old 10-29-2013, 05:00 PM
Thedarkrose Thedarkrose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arian11 View Post
Why are you doing endless sets of biceps and triceps but then only 2 sets of squats and 2 sets of deadlifts? Bigger muscles need more time and effort. And this is especially true if you want to get strong. If you look at strength programs, they have set/rep protocols like 5x5, 6x4, 7x5, 8x4, 10x3, etc. 2 sets of 12 is not going to cut it.

If your primary focus is strength, then I would start each training session with a main lift (squat, bench, deadlift, overhead press). Second exercise will be a compound lift that is an assistance exercise to hit a particular weakness. Then the accessory work after that will be more single joint, hypertrophy typical bodybuilding style work. This should give you a nice balance of strength and size while bringing up any weaknesses you may have specifically. So a typical day could look like:

Back squat - 5x5
Beltless Front squat - 3x5
Leg curls - 4x10
Calf raises - 3x15
Planks
Technically I'm doing 4 sets of squats(2 overhead and then 2 regular so I can put more weight, probably gonna add a 3rd set to regulars) then 5 benchpress(2 high reps 3 high weight) and 5 deadlift(same as bench) the order isn't really accurate since I'm not done tweaking it but it's a bit of a modified LST-7 program. The endless ISO sets with stretch are simply to get the best pump possible(that I've found so far, the feeling is simply awesome) and since they are lower weights than usual they allow me to better concentrate on the technique.

I've done a lot of 5x5s, 6x6s, etc. I'm just overdue for a change and since my trainer introduced me to the stretchbreaks I've been meaning to incorporate it more into my training and while searching online I found LST-7 which seemed perfect for it so I figured I'd adapt it a bit and give it a spin. (While keeping priority to strength on the primary lifts)

Now back to the order, yeah I've got to switch it up, thinking day one would start with benchpress then superset tricep press with hammer curls and then the two ISO stretches back to back and finally the calf(though I'm unsure why the routine was initially calf the day before legs but I tried it and it doesn't seem to affect my squats/leg press so I figured I'd keep it that way)

Then there's really just day six that I forgot to add shoulder press at the start(maybe remove rows/lat raises, I guess I'll see in a few days, currently on day 3)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander View Post
Do this.

Remember strength is in large part neurological. Frequent practice is good. So try to squeeze in extra sets of the main lifts (these can be lighter) on other days of the week aside from the main workout for that lift.
Yeah I know... I guess I could always drop to 5 sets stretchbreaks and add those 2/4 extra sets to the main lifts to help without increasing the required time nor decreasing my pump and if I still have some time just re-add them since they are always last...

Maybe I could also use one or both of he days off to do the main 4 lifts at 25-50% output just to help recovery? And extra practice(can never practice form too much ^_^)



Now thanks both for the feedback, I'm sorry my original post wasn't clear enough because I wanted to make it short and the workout was already making it long... I hope this post clarifies. And I appreciate your inputs but please give me something different than the basic workouts if you really feel this one won't cut it! Thanks


PS: I'm editing the first post to make the workout better fit what I'm changing so far.

PPS: I need to workout daily or nearly daily for two reasons;
1) I'm ADHD and it helps manage it
2) I work an office job and really need to move

Also, my 3-5 rep are never at their best from lack of a partner... But I usually try to get someone at least for the last set of bench.

Last edited by Thedarkrose; 10-29-2013 at 05:21 PM.
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  #5  
Old 10-29-2013, 05:41 PM
arian11 arian11 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thedarkrose View Post
Technically I'm doing 4 sets of squats(2 overhead and then 2 regular so I can put more weight, probably gonna add a 3rd set to regulars) then 5 benchpress(2 high reps 3 high weight) and 5 deadlift(same as bench) the order isn't really accurate since I'm not done tweaking it but it's a bit of a modified LST-7 program.
Except you wrote "as a warmup" so it's not like you are going to be pushing the overhead squat with heavy weights and progressively overloading. And its sets of 12, so once again it'll be light weight and not a focus on strength. Then the regular squats are also only 2 sets of 12 so won't be a strength focus and will be harder to progress with that little volume.

You keep talking about how strength is a primary focus of yours and that you modified it for strength but I don't see any of that. The only thing slightly resembling a strength focus is the 4-5 sets of 3-5 reps for bench and deadlift but even that is after the 12 reps work.

There are a couple of ideas you need to implement into your programming. One the focus of your program is really going to be based on 2 parameters, intensity and volume. Think of it as a vector (remember that thing they taught us in high school we thought was useless?) Intensity is the direction of the vector and volume is the magnitude of the vector. And you can think of intensity and reps inversely related so the higher the intensity, the lower the reps. So by having all your exercises for sets of 12 reps, your intensity is low thus you aren't pointing your vector in the direction of strength. Your vector is pointing in the direction of hypertrophy and muscular endurance.

Another idea is exercise selection. I don't know why, some people love picking a million different exercises and only doing a few sets on them. If an exercise is worth putting into your program, then it's worth doing for several sets. You really need to put some volume into the exercise selected to actually obtain its benefits. Don't major in the minors. And don't be someone with a million dollar 1-arm supinated cable curl and a broke *** squat.
__________________
"Strength is the product of struggle, you must do what others don't to achieve what others won't."
Competition PRs-
Squat: 463 Bench: 275 Deadlift: 529 Total: 1262

"Technique is always the first place to begin when striving to improve at a specific skill."
My YouTube Page

Last edited by arian11; 10-29-2013 at 05:44 PM.
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  #6  
Old 10-30-2013, 12:57 AM
Gregsimo Gregsimo is offline
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I agree with what Arian has said. Focusing on the main lifts as the bulk of your exercise selection in the split will yield the best results with regards to strength increases.
As for wanting to add mass to your frame. The main lifts will if you lift hard and eat well. By the sound of things you aren't maxxed out towards your genetic limit. So assistance wise use exercises that provide assistance to the main lifts.
So for squat day you'd add front squats and glute ham raises (GHR's). Your hams and quads get a pounding from the workout but the movements in GHR's and front squats will assist with gaining squat strength.

Same applies for bench press. Don't rely on flyes or DB work for strength increases. Do some dips. *Edit* Also try incline bench press. *edit*Even then only when your strength stalls would i even consider CGBP for some direct tricep/front delt work (Can always be done on shoulder day)

Add in the isolation work as more volume in the workout at the expense of intensity when hypertrophy becomes your main goal. But remember strength gains will generally yield increases in muscle size (Ever seen a skinny powerlifter/WSM competator) so even with strength as your main focus, expect to grow!


Other exercises you would want to consider are pendlay or BB rows. Chins/pullups. hyperextentions. BB curls and old school tricep extensions (if you insist on having 3 sets of direct arm work on bench press day and then on deadlift day).

As for saving time as you mentioned in the first post. You wont need to. By not over complicating the workout with insane volume on isolation work you'll spend the time focusing on the lifts which will make you grow stronger and bigger. Then core work will fit in nicely at the end of every other workout and could be as simple as doing planks and bridges.

As for rep ranges Arian is right again, sets of 12 don't have enough intensity for your goals. Lower the rep ranges considerably. There's no set guideline on this but 5 reps 3 sets, 5 sets 5 reps, 6.4.2., 7x4 etc pick one, focus on it then progress each workout.

An example routine could be:

Day 1 (Exercise. Sets x Reps)
Squats 5x5
Front squat 3x6
GHR's 10 reps 1 second hold at peakcalf work
planks or bridges

Day 2
Bench press 5x5
Dips 3x8 or incline press 3x8,
old school extensions 3x10

Day off

Day 4
Deadlift 5x2
Chins (weighted, or no more than 8 reps 3 sets)
BB rows 3x8
BB curls (if you must) 3x10
Bridges or planks

Day 5
OH press or military press 5x5
Upright rows 3x8
CGBP or dips 3x8

Day off

Rinse and repeat

The primary focus is strength, the assistance work assists in strength. Rep ranges used for assistance work will give adequate hypertrophy.
Hope that helps. Remember its just my 2 cents on things. There's no correct way to train. You'll always have some gains if you eat hard and train hard on any routine. Its about tailoring that routine to give you the best results for your current goals.
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Last edited by Gregsimo; 11-01-2013 at 02:23 AM. Reason: forgot a very important exercise!
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