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  #81  
Old 06-12-2012, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bigironcross View Post
No, what I meant was that he should have been more aggressive in trying to pass his legislation in his first two years even though he didn't have a filibuster proof majority.
Please refer to my previous post, he did pass numerous pieces of legislation that he was hoping to.

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Normally, when a president wins the election, he has 100 days where congress allows most of his legislation to pass. Obama did not have any honeymoon with the Republicans in Congress.
Normal or not, this is no where in the Constitution. No one, Democrat or Republican, or from any other third party is obligated to let legislation pass.

In fact, they take an oath of office:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

As you can see, they are duty-bound to the Constitution, not the President.

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If he had passed his measures and things went bust, he should take the blame.

However, he should take the blame for not passing more of his measures.
Again, please refer back to my post, he passed many measures. And then refer to Wizard's post as to the economic facts/results of those measures.
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  #82  
Old 06-12-2012, 12:15 PM
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Ahh, to be young again and so certain of my views.
Honestly, what does this even mean? It is kind of insulting, as if we simply haven't lived long enough to come around to different political views.

Can we keep the discussion about relevant issues? You seem pretty sure of your own views as well, but you don't see Wizard and I making comments about your age.

Wizard and I clearly have our views, but we try to present them with numbers and facts (i.e. economic reports, passed legislation, etc) so as to be fairly objective in the matter.
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  #83  
Old 06-12-2012, 01:25 PM
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Honestly, what does this even mean? It is kind of insulting, as if we simply haven't lived long enough to come around to different political views.
Sorry for my comment. I guess that i was offended by Wizard24's comment, "... and makes you appear to be nothing more than a drone". Especially with the prevalence of so many Ditto-Heads out there spewing Rush Limbaugh rhetoric. I just feel that life experience molds you. Of course, certain beliefs remain concrete. But others, change. Example: If I had a kid like that, I would do such and such. Then, you have a kid like that or worse and you are unable or not willing to do such and such.
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  #84  
Old 06-12-2012, 01:39 PM
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My local Mahoning County Democrats recently posted the the following:

Who are the job creators? Let's set the job record straight. In the 23 years that Democrats have occupied the White House since John F. Kennedy took office in January 1961, non-government jobs have increased by nearly 42 million, compared with 24 million jobs created during the 28 years under Republican presidents.

Really, the consumers are the job creators. And, currently, they lack both the funds and/or the confidence in our economy to make purchases. Tax-breaks for the middle and lower class provides the funds that they will spend. And, frequently, they spend it on necessities. The upper class haven't been using their tax-breaks to create jobs.
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  #85  
Old 06-12-2012, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bigironcross View Post
Sorry for my comment. I guess that i was offended by Wizard24's comment, "... and makes you appear to be nothing more than a drone". Especially with the prevalence of so many Ditto-Heads out there spewing Rush Limbaugh rhetoric. I just feel that life experience molds you. Of course, certain beliefs remain concrete. But others, change. Example: If I had a kid like that, I would do such and such. Then, you have a kid like that or worse and you are unable or not willing to do such and such.
No problem.

I do believe life experience is important as well.

------

OK, It can be frustrating when you start to post new material without responding to older posts. But that is your choice.

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Originally Posted by bigironcross View Post
My local Mahoning County Democrats recently posted the the following:

Who are the job creators? Let's set the job record straight. In the 23 years that Democrats have occupied the White House since John F. Kennedy took office in January 1961, non-government jobs have increased by nearly 42 million, compared with 24 million jobs created during the 28 years under Republican presidents.
That is really oversimplified as there are many factors in job creation and of course the Senate and House majorities are not always in line with the White House.

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The upper class haven't been using their tax-breaks to create jobs.
I don't understand how you can just make this statement. Obviously, some do and some don't, it would depend on if they are entrepreneurs or not.

Also, this is oversimplified as well. As excessive regulations and other issues can lead to lower levels of hiring in spite of lower tax rates. Further, it is a global economy, so tax rates become relative, i.e. even if we lower the U.S. rate, if a business can find a better business environment in another country, than, again, we may see lower levels of hiring in spite of lower tax rates.

History has shown that when you raises taxes too high, businesses and high earners find ways to shelter income from the taxes so tax revenues either don't go up or do not go up by as much as predicted.

When taxes are lower, it does give businesses/employers the means to hire more people, that is a fact of mathematics, whether the other economic factors align to promote hiring is another story.
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Last edited by Commander; 06-12-2012 at 04:09 PM.
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  #86  
Old 06-12-2012, 03:57 PM
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I believe that a progressive tax code is the only fair tax code. People, including me, who have achieved a certain level of success and realize the American Dream should enjoy supporting the programs that have made the country great. The greater that we have benefited, the greater taxes we should pay.
I donít mind paying taxes for those things ďthat have made our country greatĒ. I would argue that Social Security, Medicare, Welfare and Interest on Debt are not things that have made our country great, yet they accounted for 65% of federal government spending in 2011. The tax revenues the IRS takes in donít even cover these 4 areas.

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I believe that we need more regulation of the banking industry (and, many other industries).
Businesses and industry spend an estimated $1.75 Trillion (yes that is trillion with a ďTĒ) a year to comply with federal regulations. How much more do you believe they need to spend for this garbage? The more you allow the government to regulate business and industry the less control you as a consumer have over the marketplace. Not to mention the loss of productive jobs this money could be paying for, or increased technology advancement.

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I believe that most do not realize that they are only one healthcare issue away from or a few paychecks away from needing the programs that they are so against.
I completely agree with you that most peopleís financial situations are far, far, far from ideal, but when you allow that to be the responsibility of the federal government you automatically assign your liberty and sovereignty over to the government as well. That I have a problem with.

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I guess that I haven't supplied the logic, statistics or facts that you require but I'm sure they are just a few google seaches away.
I donít require them. I would hope that you would require some sort of proof that what you believe is best for this country actually does help the country and not hurt it. This is not a spiritual issue and does not require faith, but rather facts.
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  #87  
Old 06-12-2012, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bigironcross View Post
Sorry for my comment. I guess that i was offended by Wizard24's comment, "... and makes you appear to be nothing more than a drone". Especially with the prevalence of so many Ditto-Heads out there spewing Rush Limbaugh rhetoric. I just feel that life experience molds you. Of course, certain beliefs remain concrete. But others, change. Example: If I had a kid like that, I would do such and such. Then, you have a kid like that or worse and you are unable or not willing to do such and such.
I wasnít trying to offend you. I was simply stating that your comment that, there is not 1 Republican who cares about any of the serious issues facing this nation, is terribly close-minded and yes it does make you sound like a drone. Iím not saying that you are one, but statements like that do paint a certain picture especially when you offer no facts, #s or examples.

For the record I donít much care for Rush and can just about count on 1 hand the # of times Iíve listened to him. Iím not spewing his rhetoric or anyone elseís.
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  #88  
Old 06-12-2012, 05:28 PM
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I voted for Obama I cannot say I will vote for him again. I thought he would be a great president and a great uniter. I was wrong. I think this country is more divided than ever before, well atleast in my lifetime. I do not believe that is his fault as we have become an entitlement society and everyone wants to be be handed everything instead of working hard for it. Every kid that graduates high school thinks they are entitled to go to college no matter how bad their grades were or if they have no money to afford it. People want to sit around and collect welfare for kids they have no business having. People don't teach thier kids right from wrong and keep accountability of their education. And everything is always everyone else's fault. America needs to wake up and realize 95% of our problems are caused by ourselves. The when the country continues to head down the wrong direction and the same old politicians continue to get elected and do the same stuff that got us into the mess we are in the voters react by not voting instead of voting those people out of office. So I will finish this off with this...Never vote for a President, Governonor or any high ranking office based on party. You should vote based on their principles and if they have done enough to earn the job or another term.
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  #89  
Old 06-12-2012, 06:48 PM
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Excellent post superbilt.

I agree with everything, except I do feel Obama has contributed to the divisiveness, not saying he is 100% responsible, but definitely a contributor IMO.
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  #90  
Old 06-19-2012, 02:55 PM
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And then we have the Presidentís latest trick, using yet another Executive Order to suspend the immigration and deportation laws regarding the so-called ďDreamersĒ (children who were brought to this country illegally, by their parents, when they were under the age of 15, and are now between the ages of 16 and 30, have graduated high school, have a GED or have served in the military, and have not been convicted of a crime). I will not pass judgment on the intent of the order, but I will contend that it is not within President Obamaís constitutionally instituted powers to do this. In fact the President has admitted that he does not rightly have the power to do this.

ďAmerica is a nation of laws, which means I, as the President, am obligated to enforce the law. I don't have a choice about that. That's part of my job. . . Congress passes the law. The executive branchís job is to enforce and implement those laws. There are enough laws on the books by Congress that are very clear in terms of how we have to enforce our immigration system that for me to simply, through executive order, ignore those congressional mandates would not conform with my appropriate role as President,Ē
- Barrack Obama (March 2011)


I honestly donít see how people can make the argument that he should be re-elected.
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