thoughts on soy?

[redbill73]

Soy is great for heart health and cancer fighting but it's a testosterone killer!

[steelseal]

"But also, we showed that soy increases AMPK; which inhibits the mTOR pathway and protein synthesis.

Chronically our soy rats are significantly smaller than the rats on our other diets. They have about the same fat mass as whey and egg; but a lot less muscle. "


Is AMPK the Trypsin inhibitor that is discussed with soy? And does soy lecithin in products have this effect?

[Cyborg_Sups]

I have not read through all of the posts on here yet, but I did notice that many individuals on here are suggesting Soy is bad for you...that is incorrect. Soy is a form of bean that has the highest biological protein value of all the plant based proteins. The most common misconception that I have seen regarding soy is the potential for estrogen increases....this is true if you consume soy in HUGE amounts that would be uncommon for normal human consumption. Also, many Soy based foods such as soy burgers, hot dogs etc. are chalk full of sodium which can be unhealthy. What many people do not realize is that there is more research on unhealthy aspects of animal based proteins than plant proteins.

[Cyborg_Sups]

Originally Posted by gr0undz3r0

Soy = Bad for Test.

http://joe.endocrinology-journals.or...ract/170/3/591
/end of story

Research such as this has to be taken as a grain of salt. These mice are fed soy based diets that are usually in abnormally large quantities. Soy can decrease test levels but you would have to consume abnormally large amounts of it.

[Cyborg_Sups]

Originally Posted by Jinx5000

how much soy are we talking about? because normally in lab tests the rats consume ridiculous amounts of whatever they are testing (in this case soy).

realistically in the human body, is there a minimum limit where soy begins to be bad for test levels, or is there proof that any soy at all reduces test, and by how much?

just out of curiosity, not trying to challenge you or come off as defensive.

I just saw this post. I agree with you 100%. These research studies require the mice to consume abnormally large amounts of soy. It is not realistic to believe this side effect would occur in humans unless consumed at abnormally large quantities.

[klosey]

Originally Posted by Cyborg_Sups

I just saw this post. I agree with you 100%. These research studies require the mice to consume abnormally large amounts of soy. It is not realistic to believe this side effect would occur in humans unless consumed at abnormally large quantities.

sorry but you cant agree nore disagree with rat based studies of high amounts.. untill the day comes that a human test has been carried out of a diet primarily of soy vs non soy.. i will continue avoiding soy i have no wish to consume anything proven to lower test.. no matter how much it takes to cause the response

[Venom]

"But also, we showed that soy increases AMPK; which inhibits the mTOR pathway and protein synthesis.

Chronically our soy rats are significantly smaller than the rats on our other diets. They have about the same fat mass as whey and egg; but a lot less muscle. "


Is AMPK the Trypsin inhibitor that is discussed with soy? And does soy lecithin in products have this effect?

No, AMPK is a signaling molecule in the body which is responsive to stimuli; particularly an energy deficit.

Originally Posted by Cyborg_Sups

I have not read through all of the posts on here yet, but I did notice that many individuals on here are suggesting Soy is bad for you...that is incorrect. Soy is a form of bean that has the highest biological protein value of all the plant based proteins. The most common misconception that I have seen regarding soy is the potential for estrogen increases....this is true if you consume soy in HUGE amounts that would be uncommon for normal human consumption. Also, many Soy based foods such as soy burgers, hot dogs etc. are chalk full of sodium which can be unhealthy. What many people do not realize is that there is more research on unhealthy aspects of animal based proteins than plant proteins.

]

I don't think soy is "bad" for you. Its a complex story. There are indeed some labs which have shown health benefits from soy protein consumption; and if you consume soy in large enough amounts, you will stimulate protein synthesis.


The issue is that most people on here - being that it is a bodybuilding site - are primarily interested in maximizing muscular hypertrophy. And it is hard to make an argument that soy is optimal for that goal.

On the animal based proteins being unhealthy, I have to disagree. My research demonstrated that consumption of whey and egg proteins made our subjects lose more fat, gain more muscle, and they also had more mitochondria, and all the signals associated with that such as pgc1alpha.

The myth surrounding animal proteins being bad is based on very poorly designed epidemiological studies, in which people are consuming very fatty meats.