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Old 06-10-2009, 09:26 PM
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Thomas Edison failed a bunch of times trying to invent the light bulb. He looked at it positively though. Yes they were failures, but to Him they were mistakes to learn from. He learned how NOT to make a light bulb and kept trying something new until He found it. So His failures never became regrets.

We are imperfect human beings, created that way to keep us humble. To realize that God Almighty is the only one worthy of glory and praise. He is in perfect control of everything. And He planned our lives before we were conceived.
God lets us fail to humble us, and to make us better!
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Old 06-11-2009, 03:41 PM
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Thomas Edison failed a bunch of times trying to invent the light bulb. He looked at it positively though. Yes they were failures, but to Him they were mistakes to learn from. He learned how NOT to make a light bulb and kept trying something new until He found it. So His failures never became regrets.

We are imperfect human beings, created that way to keep us humble. To realize that God Almighty is the only one worthy of glory and praise. He is in perfect control of everything. And He planned our lives before we were conceived.
God lets us fail to humble us, and to make us better!
Edison was also an atheist. As were most of the founding fathers.
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Old 06-11-2009, 04:19 PM
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Edison was also an atheist. As were most of the founding fathers.
You are incorrect ,sir. Most of our founding fathers were God fearing believers. Open your mind and stop believing the lies of the God haters.
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Old 06-11-2009, 04:45 PM
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Edison was also an atheist. As were most of the founding fathers.
You sure about that?

I found a very unbiased article that I thought was a good read.

http://www.jameswatkins.com/foundingfathers.htm

and another

http://www.adherents.com/gov/Foundin..._Religion.html

Conclusion:

So, were the Founding Fathers Christians?

They were certainly godly men who believed in a supreme being, but not everyone would subscribe to the Apostles' Creed.

Three things do seem clear to me:

First, we must always check our sources before making any claim--or passing one on.

Both revisionists and the religious right have tried to make the Founding Fathers fit their ideology. It gives neither side of the debate any credibility when quotes are found to be ficticious or grossly out of context.

For instance, I've seen articles proclaiming that Jefferson claimed to be "a real Christian" while conveniently avoiding his opinion that belief in Christ's divinity was "dung" (see contexts above).

Second, we must be careful with labels, especially "Christian."

One author claims that 51 of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence held a "Christian worldview." He doesn't go on, however, to define what he means by Christian worldview. Would Jefferson and Franklin, who admired Christ's teachings, be included in the 51?

And third, we should be grateful that the Founding Fathers--whatever they believed--were so intent on making religious liberty a right for those of us who do subscribe to the Apostles' Creed and those who don't.


Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity in exclusion of all other religions may establish, with the same ease, any particular sect of Christians in exclusion of all other sects? That the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute threepence only of his property for the support of any one establishment may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?

Here is something else I thought was interesting.

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Old 06-11-2009, 06:52 PM
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You sure about that?

I found a very unbiased article that I thought was a good read.

http://www.jameswatkins.com/foundingfathers.htm

and another

http://www.adherents.com/gov/Foundin..._Religion.html

Conclusion:

So, were the Founding Fathers Christians?

They were certainly godly men who believed in a supreme being, but not everyone would subscribe to the Apostles' Creed.

Three things do seem clear to me:

First, we must always check our sources before making any claim--or passing one on.

Both revisionists and the religious right have tried to make the Founding Fathers fit their ideology. It gives neither side of the debate any credibility when quotes are found to be ficticious or grossly out of context.

For instance, I've seen articles proclaiming that Jefferson claimed to be "a real Christian" while conveniently avoiding his opinion that belief in Christ's divinity was "dung" (see contexts above).

Second, we must be careful with labels, especially "Christian."

One author claims that 51 of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence held a "Christian worldview." He doesn't go on, however, to define what he means by Christian worldview. Would Jefferson and Franklin, who admired Christ's teachings, be included in the 51?

And third, we should be grateful that the Founding Fathers--whatever they believed--were so intent on making religious liberty a right for those of us who do subscribe to the Apostles' Creed and those who don't.


Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity in exclusion of all other religions may establish, with the same ease, any particular sect of Christians in exclusion of all other sects? That the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute threepence only of his property for the support of any one establishment may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?

Here is something else I thought was interesting.
I suppose I am not sure if most were God fearing, but I am sure that most were not atheist. Unfortunately, there is an evil enemy out there trying to deceive us, blinding us of the truth. So yes, diligent research is definately necessary.
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Old 06-11-2009, 07:07 PM
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I suppose I am not sure if most were God fearing, but I am sure that most were not atheist. Unfortunately, there is an evil enemy out there trying to deceive us, blinding us of the truth. So yes, diligent research is definately necessary.
I believe the majority were in fact Christian. Regardless though you would have to be completely blind to not see the huge influence Christ has had on this very blessed country.

You would also have to be blind to not notice how this country has gone downhill as it has continuously pushed Christ away. More and more people push Christ away and things seem to get worse and worse.
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:00 PM
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You sure about that?
...Holy brainwash, Batman.

Anyway, let me edit my previous statement: a good portion of the founding fathers were theists or deists. Some of them did believe in a supreme being but doubted the existence of a "loving father" or whatever you would like to establish as the feel-good moniker for him. It was EXTREMELY risky to be anything but Christian in the days of the constitution.

The founding fathers would surely be disappointed to see where we have come today, where churches battle for people, and, ultimately, the tithes that come with them.

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Originally Posted by rogjodoin
Open your mind and stop believing the lies of the God haters.
Well, I'm not a God-hater, I just refuse to believe something that has never been proven. So in effect, all I'm doing is "not taking a giant leap of faith." Right? Hah.

No, I take that back, I do hate God. I hate him because of what this fictional being has turned our world into. Violence, greed, hate, and utter irrationality amongst billions.

It was Thomas Jefferson who said, "Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

and...

"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."


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You would also have to be blind to not notice how this country has gone downhill as it has continuously pushed Christ away. More and more people push Christ away and things seem to get worse and worse.
That is an incredibly biased statement based upon a subjective interpretation of the state of the country relative to your personal belief system.
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Old 06-12-2009, 01:05 PM
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I'll also add that I am somewhere between a deist and a pantheist. Basically I do not DENY the existence of some supreme being, but I 100% deny that this being did anything more than just create the universe.

Basically I don't believe in God as you all know him via scripture. I believe in the possibility of some supreme being, who, may not even care that we exist. He created the universe and went on vacation
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Old 06-12-2009, 02:36 PM
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[quote=rootb33r;888993]





No, I take that back, I do hate God. I hate him because of what this fictional being has turned our world into. Violence, greed, hate, and utter irrationality amongst billions.

It was Thomas Jefferson who said, "Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

and...

"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."

I believe(know) there is an adversary, an ememy of God, Satan, who hates us all and tries with all his might to deceive us, to make God look horrible and even fictional. Satan is the author of all the violence, greed hate,etc. Satan will even use the church and people who profess to be christians to make God and christianity seem perverted. God never intended it to be this way, but man rebelled againt God thus bringing sin and death into this world. Yes, He is a righteous Holy God who sends wrath and punishment for sin. Its called justice. But He is also a loving Father having made a way for us to be free from the wrath we so deserve.

If you look at Jeffersons statement from both sides of the coin, you can see that He is not saying that He does not believe, but that Because He does believe He holds a higher responsibility.

You are in my thoughts and prayers, Hoping you can find happiness in knowing the truth and therefore being free!
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Old 06-12-2009, 02:53 PM
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I believe(know) there is an adversary, an ememy of God, Satan, who hates us all and tries with all his might to deceive us, to make God look horrible and even fictional. Satan is the author of all the violence, greed hate,etc. Satan will even use the church and people who profess to be christians to make God and christianity seem perverted. God never intended it to be this way, but man rebelled againt God thus bringing sin and death into this world. Yes, He is a righteous Holy God who sends wrath and punishment for sin. Its called justice. But He is also a loving Father having made a way for us to be free from the wrath we so deserve.

If you look at Jeffersons statement from both sides of the coin, you can see that He is not saying that He does not believe, but that Because He does believe He holds a higher responsibility.

You are in my thoughts and prayers, Hoping you can find happiness in knowing the truth and therefore being free!
Am I an effigy of Satan? lol. I was a devil for Halloween once... it was fun

May I ask, if Satan brings violence, greed, and hate into this world... what does God do? Because he's never done ANYTHING that even remotely compares to the opposites of violence, greed, and hate.

Does that make sense? Violence, greed, and hate are all quantifiable, tangible things that we know happen and we know are terrible. What does God do to oppose/correct/compensate?

Miracles? Show me.
Appearances? I have more of a chance of winning the lottery than seeing a Mother Mary in my **** grilled cheese or in the bark of a tree and thinking it's the lord speaking to me.

Whatever god does that is right is so minuscule compared to what is wrong about religion, that it offers no definitive proof of his existence. Not even a sane argument.
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