Do not ice sore muscles! - ABCbodybuilding

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Old 12-11-2008, 10:59 PM
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Default Do not ice sore muscles!

Recently Andro posted a thread on Heat shock proteins and the possible efficacy of taking hot emersive baths to activate them. BUt what about the opposite? Athletes are constantly told to ice themselves, to immerse themselves in a tub of hot ice if possible. But now we know that things like Heat shock proteins are actually elivated by inflamation. Is icing really efficacious for the bodybuilder?

http://www.springerlink.com/content/f810p6kr7867t26p/

Yamane et al. (2006) have recently demonstrated that the administration of cold water immersion following exercise sessions during a 4 to
6 week training programme signicantly attenuated training-
induced adaptations. These included reduced isometric
strength and brachial artery diameter following upper-body
training, as well as a tendency to actually decrease muscle size! (Yamane et al. 2006).

I think the thing to take home is that scientists are beginning to question the common methods typically used by athletes to speed recovery. Perhaps by hampering the inflamatory response you also hamper the adaptive response?
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Old 12-11-2008, 11:19 PM
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not a fan of icing anyway, it seems to reduce inflammantion great, but i seem to never gain any strength that week if ice is used
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Old 12-13-2008, 05:30 PM
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I briefly skimmed through the study mainly on the forearm results as that is more resistance training. It seems to me that icing didn't really have any negative affects whatsoever following training. They found the slightest increase in muscle thickness in the control group and called it a tendency for not icing to improve muscle mass, and the opposite for the cold group when neither results were statistically significant. Yes they found an increase in brachial artery diameter in the control group but it was only half a mm which may have been statistically significant but how that translates to being clinically meaningful i don't know. I bet the difference in artery diameter between the two groups is also not statistically different based on the graph.

I think the important thing from this article is to look at the the results, cooling did not affect muscle gains, there were no changes in maximal muscle strength in either group, and both groups showed endurance improvements. Based on that I would say icing post exercise does not appear to hinder results. Interesting article nonetheless.
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Old 12-13-2008, 06:19 PM
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Both groups increased in maximal isometric strength, and the % increase was significantly greater in the control than cooled group. However because it was a short study as you indicated both groups did not gain any muscle. In terms of the small increase in brachial artery diameter, for 4-6 weeks time that is still substantial.

I think overall this is one of the first studies analyzing the effects of cooling on endurance and strength indices and thus far the tendency is for it to have detrimental effects on a number of variables, and this is a short term study. THis to me is cause for more studies further analzying if this attenuates strength and muscle gains in more long term studies, it is also cause for alarm for us to begin to consider the true implications of icing vs. non icing particularly with all the new data comming out on variables such as changes in heat shock protein expression
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Old 12-13-2008, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by President Wilson View Post
Both groups increased in maximal isometric strength, and the % increase was significantly greater in the control than cooled group. However because it was a short study as you indicated both groups did not gain any muscle. In terms of the small increase in brachial artery diameter, for 4-6 weeks time that is still substantial.

I think overall this is one of the first studies analyzing the effects of cooling on endurance and strength indices and thus far the tendency is for it to have detrimental effects on a number of variables, and this is a short term study. THis to me is cause for more studies further analzying if this attenuates strength and muscle gains in more long term studies, it is also cause for alarm for us to begin to consider the true implications of icing vs. non icing particularly with all the new data comming out on variables such as changes in heat shock protein expression
very well put Jacob
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Old 01-03-2009, 08:06 PM
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You know.. I've always wondered why we were told to ice injuries to bring down the inflamation. Inflamation is one of the bodies processes that brings more nutrients/etc to the injured area in order to heal it. Why would we want to decrease this?
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Old 01-03-2009, 08:36 PM
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You know.. I've always wondered why we were told to ice injuries to bring down the inflamation. Inflamation is one of the bodies processes that brings more nutrients/etc to the injured area in order to heal it. Why would we want to decrease this?
because the inflammatory response for injury is often too strong...so they don't stop the inflammation, they only slow it down to better control it
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Old 01-03-2009, 09:12 PM
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because the inflammatory response for injury is often too strong...so they don't stop the inflammation, they only slow it down to better control it
Ahh I see! =)
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Old 01-19-2009, 03:03 PM
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Hey prez in relation to the HSP what do you think would be the impact of contrast showers i.e. alternating between hot and cold? The idea is that the change from vasodilation to vasoconstriction would flush by-product buildup and deliver oxygen rich blood therefore hastening recovery.

Also if trying to prevent or train around chronic inflamatory injuries such as tendinitous do you think it would still be advantageous to supress the inflamatory response by icing?
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