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Old 02-28-2011, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by superbilt View Post
Fedex and UPS have far more generous pensions than most public workers have in fact my future uncle-in-law retired form UPS with 80% of his top salary and now works for Fedex. Most public workers retire with 25%-50% of their top salary with the exception of police and firefighters. Don't you think those high pensions from UPS and Fedex have something to do with costs? Not to mention Drivers get paid quite well.

There is a huge difference, Fedex and UPS are choosing to give pensions out of their profits and yes, that may mean that they have to raise certain prices. BUT, you are not forced to use FedEx or UPS, you have a choice of whether you contribute to their pensions or not. The people of Wisconsin MUST pay their taxes. They don't have a choice to contribute to the pensions of the teachers. When choice is removed from the equation, we must be very careful, that is why FDR didn't even believe in public sector unions.

Public workers generate revenue varying on the department. Police give tickets and fines it generate revenue for the town/county/state. Courts charge people to file motions. Garbage charges for special pickup. You get my point. Obviously, taxes led to the majority of salaries and benefits. There is no debate there.

OK, I get your point. Hopefully you get mine as well, that in the private sector, revenue is typically generated in a much healthier way. I.E. a voluntary exchange of goods and services. As people vote with the dollars, it tells business where to reinvest their revenue and then you get better goods and services. Unfortunately, in the public sector, you don't get to vote with your dollars, you HAVE to pay taxes, therefore, there isn't the same pressure/competitiveness that tends to drive innovation and improvement.

The fact is not everything government does is great, but everything can not be privatized either.

Agreed, the government has certain functions as outlined in the Constitution. As outlined in Article I, Section 8, the government has a responsibility to:

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy


...amongst a few other things, but not many.


There are private schools for those that don't want their children in public school, but not everyone can afford that. You need police/fire/schools/courts/garbage/etc and they most be funded by the people.

Well, those issues are best left resolved to the states.

Amendment 10 of the Constitution

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people


The US Consitution says NOTHING about education, which means they have no authority to get involved in it. Unfortunately, since the 1960's, the Federal Government became more involved in education and I think it is clear that our education system has not improved since then. Graduation rates are down, SAT scores are down, our performance as compared to other nations is down, violence is up.

Just one example:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/educati...mparison_x.htm


Workout Machine- Ron Paul is a smart man too bad the Republican party is more interested in Sarah Palin and Chris Christie.
I voted for Ron Paul in the primary. We'll see what happens in 2012.

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There a couple points of mine that you ignored which I would like to know how you feel about:

1: FDR being against public sector unions and his very articulate reasoning for his views.

2: Governor Scott being elected to handle this mess as he openly campaigned on these isues directly (he didn't surprise anyone with this)

3: The Democratic legislators who are abandoning the democratic process (it seems ironic that they gave Republicans a hard time for being the party of "no", at least you have to show up and vote to be the party of "no")

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...71Q2RR20110227

Wisconsin's Constitution says absent members can be compelled to appear. So the legislators are intentionally leaving the state so they are not in the juridisction of the Wisconsin Constitution. If anyone else fled a state so as not to be in a jurisdiction, we usually call that a crime, and the person, a criminal.

Article IV, Section 7 of Wisconsin Constitution:

Organization of Legislature; Quorum; Compulsory Attendance

Each house shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members; and a majority of each shall constitute a quorum to do business, but a smaller number may adjourn from day to day, and may compel the attendance of absent members in such manner and under such penalties as each house may provide.
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Last edited by Commander; 02-28-2011 at 02:47 PM.
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