02-26-2011, 01:32 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: North East U.S.A.
Originally Posted by superbilt
Teachers also have to deal with people's children and should be paid well enough to support their families. If people want their kids to grow up idiots then hire unqualified teachers who do not have degrees or experience. I don't know what the cost of living is in Wisconsin but here in NJ $51,000 will not get you much.
Regardless what you think of 51K, it is MORE than the median income of other Wisconsin households. So, I think we are paying them enough to support their families.
The problem is the government (politicians) do not live up to the contracts that were negotiated with the workers. What the Governor is doing is basically saying I don't care about you, your family, and the services you provide. Do what I say because I am the governor. Do I think the workers should pay into their pensions and health care? Absolutely, it is only fair.
Who didn't live up to the contracts?
Obviously it is not fun to have your contract renegotiated, but even the previous Democrat Governor found himself in the positition of having to take drastic measures, i.e. layoffs and days without pay.
On May 7, 2009, Wisconsin Governor Democrat Jim Doyle controversially announced that the state budget was in such severe straits he was laying off 700 state workers and would lay off another 400 if state employee unions did not consent to the revocation of their contractually-scheduled June 2% raises. He also announced that all state employees would be furloughed for 16 days without pay over the next two years. His budget also raised property taxes by 4.2% mainly due to cutting state funding for education
Is what the current Governor saying that he doesn't care? If he is, then the previous Governor is in the same boat. Or is he saying that he sees a budget deficit and public unions with too much collective bargaining rights and he wants to make his state fiscally solvent?
Remember, Governor Walker was just elected in November and took office on January 3, 2011. He did not create these problems, rather, he campaigned openly to find solutions for these problems. And he was crystal clear about his intentions:
From November 13, 2009
Other fringe costs include unemployment compensation, workers’ compensation, life insurance, and wage continuation insurance. But those are tiny issues compared with pensions and health insurance.
Walker said he wants to cut the wages and benefits
People in the public sector make on average 15% less salary then a person with the same job in the private sector.
The facts state differently:
This is from the first link, USA today:
Federal employees earn higher average salaries than private-sector workers in more than eight out of 10 occupations, a USA TODAY analysis of federal data finds.
Accountants, nurses, chemists, surveyors, cooks, clerks and janitors are among the wide range of jobs that get paid more on average in the federal government than in the private sector.
Overall, federal workers earned an average salary of $67,691 in 2008 for occupations that exist both in government and the private sector, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. The average pay for the same mix of jobs in the private sector was $60,046 in 2008, the most recent data available
I am in no way pro-union. I have to be part of a union because it is mandatory. I would much rather take that money and invest it into something better. That is the states fault for making my position and many like it a union-required position.
The public workers pay taxes like everyone else. They are partially paying their own salaries.
Public workers do generate revenue.
Please, I enjoy discussing this with you, but please include some type of back up for that statements. How do public workers generate revenue?
Their income is paid by tax dollars. There are some valuable services done by public workers, but they are not revenue producing. Schools, police and public works departs have to use money to function, they are not in the business of taking in revenue.
Looking at the federal level, the House of Representatives has the power to initiate revenue bills
Article 1, Section 8 explains how the collect revenue:
Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
Clause 2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States
The collect revenue by taking and borrowing.
If people have such a problem with public workers they can privatize everything and see how that disaster pans out. I.E. the DMV in NJ was privatized and now many have closed down and their services have been slashed. Privatize police and everytime you need them then you have to pay for them to come help you.
There is a time and place for everything. Mail is being privatized and most people would probably agree that UPS and FedEx are good options.
The fact is when everything was good nobody was complaining right. Then Wall Street and the Mortgage industry got greedy and messed up the whole economy. People quickly forget that and want to blame public employees for everything.
That is not true, there were people with principles, Ron Paul (obviously this example doesn't apply to Wisconsin), who consistently have talked about the direction this government/country/etc is heading even when things were OK.
James 1:16-17 ESV
Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights
With God's help...Mens sana in corpore sano