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-   -   Cardio routine advice (http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95807)

Yiannis 03-31-2013 05:58 PM

Cardio routine advice
 
Well this is my first post on the site and i would like a help regarding my cardio routine.
Iam following a fat loss diet and i would like to use hiit cardio in order to lose some fat and preserve muscle mass.I am big fan of Layne Norton and Mr.Wilson and i have recently heard their last podcast for cardio.I am already use sprints protocols,sled dragging etc.My questions are these?
a) i found in some articles here that Mr.Wilson suggest moderate cardio training after an hiit routine for optimal fat burning.This i think is something that comes to the contrary with their podcast.Is it an old theory and he has revised this theory?
b) How many hiit cardio routines can someone have in their weekly fat loss program and which is the maximum length time for such a routine?
c) I want to periodize my cardio routine.Can you give me an example using Hiit protocols?

Commander 04-01-2013 01:36 PM

First of all, glad you are listening, those are great podcasts thus far.

a) I believe that is older. In general, opting for either lower or higher intensity is better.

I copy and pasted a summary of Prez and Venom's article below:

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/Concurrentarticle2.pdf

Summary of Concurrent Training Principles

Modality – Cycling is preffered over running

Intensity – Bodybuilders should perform either very low intensity endurance training (>50 % VO2max) or very high intensity sprints (20X20 second sprints). If performing more traditional cardio, there will be less decraments with moderate intensity (65 % heart rate max) moderate duration (30-60 minutes) as compared to high intensity ( >90 % Heart rate max) intervals lasting 4-6 minutes in duration.

Sequencing – In general for trained individuals cardio should be separated from leg days by at least 24 hours prior to and after the training session. For untrained individuals who have difficulty putting on size 24 hours before, and up to 72 hours after should be the optimal prescription. However, if body fat loss is a priority, then they should still wait 24 hours following training.


b) Maximum HIIT sessions depends on how well you recover and how many times you are hitting legs with resistance training. Keep in mind that during a fat loss phase, recover will be impeded. Assuming 2 legs sessions, you could probably get away with 2 HIIT sessions.

For example, here is a sample split:

Monday - legs
Tuesday - upperbody
Wednesday - HIIT
Thursday - delts/arms
Friday - Legs (lighter)
Saturday - upoerbody and HIIT
Sunday - Off

b continued) Regarding maximal time, I wouldn't look at it that way. During a fat loss phase, you want to milk each phase for as much as it is worth. You want to get the most out of as little cardio as possible. In fact, if you are losing fat with just dietary changes, than do that, and when you stall, then add in a bit of cardio. The key factor in HIIT is intensity. You cannot do TRUE HIIT for a long period of time (as the podcast mentioned). As little as 5 minutes can be very effective (15 second sprint followed by 45 second rest, repeat 4 more times).

c) I personally wouldn't periodize. But if you wanted to, I think a simple way would be to start with a set amount of sprints.
let's use: 5 sprints x 10 seconds, 60 second rest. On week 2, decrease rest time by 15 seconds and on week 3 add 5 more seconds to the sprint time. On week 4, go back to 10 seconds and 60 second rest but add in another sprint.

It would look like this:
Week 1 - 5 sprints x 10 seconds, 60 second rest
Week 2 - 5 sprints x 10 seconds, 45 second rest
Week 3 - 5 sprints x 15 seconds, 45 second rest
Week 4 - 6 sprints x 10 seconds, 60 second rest

Yiannis 04-01-2013 03:49 PM

Thanks commander for your answers but there are some points that i want to make it clear.
Regarding my first question a) you posted a summary of Prez and Wenom's which says Intensity – Bodybuilders should perform either very low intensity endurance training (>50 % VO2max) or very high intensity sprints (20X20 second sprints).I think that 20x20 sec sprint is extremely high volume for Hiit cardio routine and it couldn't be true Hiit as you mentioned on my second question b).
Also as the podcast mentioned, Mr.Wilson suggest that the rest time between the sprints should be 2-4 minutes.Furthermore he says that the total duration of sprints shouldn't be more than 2 minutes( for example 8setsX15sec=120sec or 6 setsX20sec=120 sec).If you manage to accomplish more sets then you haven't try real hard in your previous sets.
So according to the podcast your hiit protocol on my third question c) is not right regarding the rest time.The doctors says that this is not sufficient time for recupation between the sprints.
Please can you clarify to me these points.Thank you again.

Commander 04-01-2013 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yiannis (Post 926076)
Thanks commander for your answers but there are some points that i want to make it clear.
Regarding my first question a) you posted a summary of Prez and Wenom's which says Intensity – Bodybuilders should perform either very low intensity endurance training (>50 % VO2max) or very high intensity sprints (20X20 second sprints).I think that 20x20 sec sprint is extremely high volume for Hiit cardio routine and it couldn't be true Hiit as you mentioned on my second question b).
Also as the podcast mentioned, Mr.Wilson suggest that the rest time between the sprints should be 2-4 minutes.Furthermore he says that the total duration of sprints shouldn't be more than 2 minutes( for example 8setsX15sec=120sec or 6 setsX20sec=120 sec).If you manage to accomplish more sets then you haven't try real hard in your previous sets.
So according to the podcast your hiit protocol on my third question c) is not right regarding the rest time.The doctors says that this is not sufficient time for recupation between the sprints.
Please can you clarify to me these points.Thank you again.

I agree, 20x20 would be an insane amount of volume, in fact, I believe that much would be counterproductive.

I believe with longer sprints a 2 to 4 minute rest time is necessary, but a bike sprint of 10 to 15 seconds can be recovered from much easier than sprinting on a track for 10 to 15 seconds. I agree about the total duraction of sprints not being more than 120 seconds.

Don't overthink it, whatever rest time you pick 45 seconds or 2 minutes, make sure you are consistent and measure your progress over time.

Yiannis 04-01-2013 05:47 PM

ok i think that it's clear to me now.
But what about other forms of cardio like farmers walks or barbell complex or dumbell swings.Are they consider hiit training?Are they an alternative type for cardio besides sprints?
I would say that they look like more to moderate intensity training rather than high intensity interval training.

Commander 04-01-2013 07:05 PM

You could probably do Farmer's Walks or DB Swings in a HIIT format if you used a heavy enough weight to where you were struggling to last 15 seconds (but still using good form). They appear moderate intensity because most people tend to do longer duration farmer's walks and lighter DB swings. It's all about intensity.

I personally wouldn't attempt it with barbell complexes. Nothing wrong with a complex, I just wouldn't format it HIIT style.

There are definitely alternatives to traditional sprints, the key to keep in mind is picking an exercise/activity that you can safely do with High Intensity for 10 to 15 seconds.

greatkeen 04-02-2013 10:09 AM

just noticed Commander is 'super moderator' .. Congrats.. very well deserved.

and good choice, specially as i hear abc is to be revived :)

Commander 04-02-2013 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greatkeen (Post 926084)
just noticed Commander is 'super moderator' .. Congrats.. very well deserved.

and good choice, specially as i hear abc is to be revived :)

Thanks!

I am hoping it gets revived, I'd love to see the forums pick up and for Prez and Venom to write more articles.

bigbear6708 04-03-2013 09:16 PM

just another great cardi tip is "tabata" style workouts. they are quick and you really get a great beneift

President Wilson 04-05-2013 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yiannis (Post 926071)
Well this is my first post on the site and i would like a help regarding my cardio routine.
Iam following a fat loss diet and i would like to use hiit cardio in order to lose some fat and preserve muscle mass.I am big fan of Layne Norton and Mr.Wilson and i have recently heard their last podcast for cardio.I am already use sprints protocols,sled dragging etc.My questions are these?
a) i found in some articles here that Mr.Wilson suggest moderate cardio training after an hiit routine for optimal fat burning.This i think is something that comes to the contrary with their podcast.Is it an old theory and he has revised this theory?
b) How many hiit cardio routines can someone have in their weekly fat loss program and which is the maximum length time for such a routine?
c) I want to periodize my cardio routine.Can you give me an example using Hiit protocols?

Great question. As a scientist I am always willing to change my position based on the latest data. At the time I wrote about the moderate intensity cardio, there was research to suggest that moderate intensity cardio resulted in greater fat metabolism then when done after HIIT training. This still holds true.

However after our research and others we now know that low intensity / mod intensity cardio is catabolic not only to fat tissue but unfortunately also to muscle tissue, and so we now suggest the ideal way to get lean is to just do the HIIT training by itself and eliminate the moderate intensity cardio.

Make sense?


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