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keeptruckin 10-27-2012 02:40 AM

Deadlift affecting Bench
 
Has anyone here had the experience that doing deadlifting adversely affects your bench press? I have bad knees and alternate between squat and deadlift. But every time I start with the deadlifts, my bench suffers.

CVKocener 10-30-2012 01:08 AM

Dead-lift indirectly works your Tri's. Depending on how intense your dead-lift routine is, you could definitely see a drop in your bench ability on those days. I would try bench first.

Commander 10-30-2012 04:12 PM

It's true that the triceps are involved in shoulder extension which does take place during a deadlift, but it is very indirect. The lats are mostly involved in that contraction.

I would approach it from two other angles:

1. Deadlifts and Squats both involve the lats in stabilization, but I would argue that the lats are definitely more active in the deadlift. The lats play a role as your base for benching, so if the lats are more fatigued from deadlifts as compared to squats, then they would effect the bench more so than squats.

2. Also, I bet grip could be related. I think we've felt the difference between gripping the bar lightly and trying to squeeze the life out of the bar. The same weight on the bar can feel much easier when squeezing the bar hard. However, if your grip is already fatigues from multiple deadlift sets, then your bench would be effected.

greatkeen 10-31-2012 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander (Post 925132)
2. Also, I bet grip could be related. I think we've felt the difference between gripping the bar lightly and trying to squeeze the life out of the bar. The same weight on the bar can feel much easier when squeezing the bar hard. However, if your grip is already fatigues from multiple deadlift sets, then your bench would be effected.

this ^^. try using straps on deadlifts. also i always do deadlifts at the end of my workout...as after that i have nothing left to do anything in the gym even driving my car back is a big task.. deadlifts if done with decent weights are very taxing on entire body.

Kenny Croxda 11-06-2012 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greatkeen (Post 925134)
i always do deadlifts at the end of my workout...as after that i have nothing left to do anything in the gym even driving my car back is a big task.. deadlifts if done with decent weights are very taxing on entire body.

Taxing Deadlift

Good point.

More than anything, the deadlift (squats, as well) deplete you.

Thus, you need allow some recovery time between when you deadlift and bench press.

Deadlifts Last In Training

Sounds like works for you.

However, exercises like deadlifts while demanding, trigger a lot of growth. With that said, greater overall gains come from performing them first in your session.

Doing so, allows you maximize your results.

Good Mornings

This is another great posterior chain movement that to some degree simulate the deadlift.

In my experience, I have found allows to maximize my posterior chain training.

However, it does not deplete me to the same extent as deadlifts.

Deadlift Recovery Time

Heavy deadlifts require 7-21 days of recovery time.

The length of your recovery time cuts into your bench press training, as well as everything else.

It's hard to perform well with anything when your metabolism and central nervous system are below par.

Good Morning Recovery Time

Good Morning Recovery Time is about 7 days. That means your other lifts do not suffer or if so minimally.

Summary:

1) Rethink your deadlift program. Provide longer rest periods between deadlift sessions, 10 days or more.

I realize that 10 day rest periods then to throw off routines.

A 14 Day Deadlift session, could be going heavy every other week and very light every other week.

2) Replace Deadlifts

Two movements that compliment the deadlift are heavy partial Good Mornings combined with Olmpic pulls or really heavy Kettlebell Swings.

Heavy Kettlebell swings mean using over 100 lbs.

Hungarian Core Blaster "Kettlebell"

This is a cheap effective tool for performing Heavy Kettlebell Swings. The cost to make it is about $20 plus the weight plates.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9JKyWhVGl4

Heavy Hungarian "Kettlebell Swings" blast the erectors, hamstrings and glutes. This is one of the best Auxilary Power Deadlift Movement there is.

Change Something

The take home message is that you need to change something.

Kenny Croxdale

greatkeen 11-07-2012 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Croxda (Post 925189)
[b][u]Deadlift Recovery Time

Heavy deadlifts require 7-21 days of recovery time.

The length of your recovery time cuts into your bench press training, as well as everything else.

It's hard to perform well with anything when your metabolism and central nervous system are below par.

recovery time is very subjective. i have been very successfully alternating 2 sessions of heavy deadlifts one week while 1 session of same heavy deadlift 2nd week. this i am able to carry on (with progression) for 8-10 weeks before needing a deload/week off.

in my opinion if you manage the overall volume (of different exercises & no of sets/reps) then 2 sessions of heavy deadlifts (say Mon & Fri) can easily be managed.

did i say i am dangerously addicted to deadlifts. :cool:

Commander 11-07-2012 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greatkeen (Post 925199)
recovery time is very subjective.

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by greatkeen (Post 925199)
did i say i am dangerously addicted to deadlifts. :cool:

This is a good thing. I am as well. :)

Kenny Croxda 11-07-2012 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greatkeen (Post 925199)
recovery time is very subjective. i have been very successfully alternating 2 sessions of heavy deadlifts one week while 1 session of same heavy deadlift 2nd week. this i am able to carry on (with progression) for 8-10 weeks before needing a deload/week off.

Recovery Time

I understand that everyone recovey time is different. However, there are prameters that apply to the majority of individuals.

You appear to respond to more frequent sessions. The majority of individuals don't.

Lower Back

For the majority of individuals, the lower back is quickly and easily overtrained with frequent deadlift sessions.

Dr Tom McLaughlin (PhD in Exercise Biomechanics/Former Powerlifter) stated that in one of his series of articles on deadlift training.

McLaughlin cautioned, "...whatever you do, DON'T OVER TRAIN THE LOWER BACK. These muscles fatigue faster than almost any other muscle group in the body and also take more time to recover."


Quote:

Originally Posted by greatkeen (Post 925199)
in my opinion if you manage the overall volume (of different exercises & no of sets/reps) then 2 sessions of heavy deadlifts (say Mon & Fri) can easily be managed.

Two Heavy Session A Week

Very few individuals will benefit or repsond from two heavy deadlift sessions a week.

The lower back cannot handle it.

Exception

Individuals like you may be able to handle it.

A novice can make some initial progress with it.

However, the the majority of individuals are going to have a negative reaction. Their deadlift strength will decrease.

Muscle Recovery Rate

Dr Fred Hatfield addressed the recovery rate of muscles in his article, "Finding The Ideal Training Split. http://drsquat.com/content/knowledge...training-split

"Days Of Recovery Required For Each Body Part Before Training It Again"

As per Hatfield, Large Muslces trained heavy need around 6 days of rest to recover.

However, heavy deadlift training at some point for the majority is going to take longer, 7-10 days or longer.

That is why some powerlifters train their deadlift once heavy every 14 days.

Keeptruckin's Bench Press Problem

Part of his problem is his deadlift recovery time spill over to his bench press. His metabolic and CNS are still drained.

Kenny Croxdale

arian11 11-07-2012 07:50 PM

Has nobody bothered to ask him what his technique/form looks like and what program he is running? What his actual numbers are would help as well since beginners train differently than elite lifters.

I just came off squatting, benching, and deadlifting 3x a week each and had no problems of "overtraining", "CNS fatigue", or loss in bench strength. It's all about how you distribute your volume and build up volume over your lifting career.

Kenny Croxda 11-08-2012 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arian11 (Post 925205)
Has nobody bothered to ask him what his technique/form looks like and what program he is running? What his actual numbers are would help as well since beginners train differently than elite lifters.

That a good point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arian11 (Post 925205)
I just came off squatting, benching, and deadlifting 3x a week each and had no problems of "overtraining", "CNS fatigue", or loss in bench strength. It's all about how you distribute your volume and build up volume over your lifting career.

Distribute and Build Up Volume

It hard to comment on something that isn't well defined. Please provide more information on that.

Kenny Croxdale


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