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-   -   Diet for obese vs. lean individuals - insulin sensitivity (http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91944)

Venom 05-14-2009 05:14 AM

Diet for obese vs. lean individuals - insulin sensitivity
 
I've been pondering this idea all day, and I wanted to run it by you guys, see what you think.

Ok, we all know that insulin can be a pretty powerful hormone to manipulate both for fat loss and muscle gain. So a lot of diets today focus on spiking insulin post workout, or carb cycling, etc.

But here is the thing: there is a lot of evidence that obese individuals are resistant to a lot of hormones and their effects on the body. Examples:

1. Insulin resistant
2. Leptin resistant
3. Blunted thermic response to food consumption (related to insulin resistance)

etc.

Now, there are a lot of bodybuilders who for one reason or another, allow themselves to get obese, or really out of shape. In this condition, I'd say they are probably in similar metabolic shape.

Either way, here is what I am wondering: for people like this, should our complete focus for the start of their diet be to work on improving their sensitivity to hormones?

Basically what I am thinking is that for these people, you would basically want to eliminate insulin and provide factors which improve metabolic abnormalities. Examples:

1. ALL carbs come from veggies or high fiber grains
2. No sugars - even post workout.
3. Healthy fats (omegas, mct oils, etc.)
4. higher protein diet
5. exercise

Now, once these metabolic abnormalities are corrected, then you can slowly start to implement things like sugars post workout, or carb up days periodically? My theory is that if you start of with sugar, or carb cycles, it is only going to exacerbate the abnormalities, because they are resistant to these hormones.

What do u think?

Hammer 05-14-2009 05:32 AM

Hi Gabe: You know how you were in a room of prayer tonight, each of you sharing, well I believe as the years pass in this group that the biggest field you will have to undertake is the subject you are asking about now. And in my heart this one says "pray"...........this needs much work and study, and many aids. You have lots of great helpers, so go for it. I have a doctor, who has lost 150lbs doing this, but all he can do so far is walk for exercise...........and he tells me I would not want to see his body. If he touches a piece of chocolate cake, he's afraid he might eat the whole cake. He's high protein and sugar free.........have a nice evening and I will leave it at that. Go for it, please. I think you will be surprised someday. May God Bless you on the way.

Venom 05-14-2009 06:06 AM

Thanks for the encouragement, Hammer! I definitely think this is a worthy cause, so I will continue to do the work!

Commander 05-14-2009 01:27 PM

I would think this approach would work well for someone like Lee Preist who I've seen pictures in the off season looking quite obese.

Venom, do you have a cut off point in mind in terms of bodyfat percentage?

very fat:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y4APzJbm1_...f_season01.jpg

pretty fat:
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...e_con/trey.jpg

or someone like Layne Norton who only gets slightly fat.

Venom 05-14-2009 01:56 PM

First, I have never seen Layne fat. Dude always looks great.

I don't just think body fat could be a determinant, here. If you were bulking and eating alot of junk food, even if you are not technically obese, you still could have made your body pretty insensitive to various hormones.

I also think people that take drugs like Lee are in a whole other category.

Commander 05-14-2009 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venom (Post 885998)
First, I have never seen Layne fat. Dude always looks great.

Don't take that the wrong way. I don't think Layne looks fat either from the pictures/videos I have seen (like Inside the Life of Layne Norton), but I was just referring to the fact that obviously in the off season he carries way more fat than he would as he gets a couple months out from a contest.

Plus I was looking to find someone else for my "bodyfat spectrum", lol. :D

Commander 05-14-2009 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venom (Post 885998)
I don't just think body fat could be a determinant, here. If you were bulking and eating alot of junk food, even if you are not technically obese, you still could have made your body pretty insensitive to various hormones.

So those following a cleaner bulk would probably not have to worry about following your suggested protocol.

Venom 05-14-2009 02:10 PM

No, not at all. Clean bulkers are doing it right and should be fine...like Chris Fahs, Jeremy, and Ben. They never have metabolic abnormalities. I also think this may apply more to the endomorph than a meso or ectomorph.

will-work4andro 05-14-2009 02:28 PM

i definitely follow what you're saying...basically, the big time bulkers won't get the benefit from carb cycling because they have made themselves resistant to the very nutrient they are manipulating...so basically after a period of time...they would slowly reintroduce carbohydrate, very slowly...because after a prolonged period of time, one would become likely regain sensitivity especially with exercise...so if they stay consistent with the slow reintroduction...they could conceivably reverse the destruction they caused by becoming obese...sorry for the ramble, but that's how i think...Great thinking Gabe...did what i write, follow what you're saying?

Venom 05-14-2009 02:55 PM

Yup! Thanks for the input, J! I think that is my point: how can you manipulate hormones you are resistant to?


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