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Venom 07-20-2006 10:46 PM

How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet Part II - Essential Fats
 
We previously had a discussion in this forum on how to optimize fat efficiency in the diet, http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum...page/0#1150156

When we discuss the efficiency of any nutrient, we mean how can we achieve the maximum desired benefits—I.e. enhanced insulin sensitivity, enhanced protein synthesis, etc.—while consuming the least amount of calories.

For instance, most of you are aware of the amino acid shooter on our website. One of the main benefits for this is that it optimizes caloric efficiency. The Amino Acid shooter can stimulate an equal amount of muscle growth as a normal protein meal containing double the calories. In a recent study conducted by Dr. Volpi and colleagues, a group of subjects were given 18 grams of EAAs, while a second group received 18 grams of EAAs along with 22 grams of NAAs, which is similar to a normal protein serving. While calories were more than double in the second group, the amount of protein synthesis was identical for both protein feedings! By maximizing Caloric Efficiency, an athlete can safely increase calories in the off season, as well as lower calories while preparing for a contest.

The previous discussion on fat efficiency in the diet, focused in on saturated fats; in particularly, medium chain fats.

This thread, I would like to focus on optimizing fat efficiency in the diet, through the consumption of essential fatty acids and their derivatives.

For a great deal of information on essential fats, read this article, Essential Fatty Acids - An In Depth Analysis

Essential nutrients are those nutrients that must be supplied through diet because the body cannot manufacture them from other nutrients.

There are two essential fats, broadly known as omega 3 and 6 fatty acids.

What I want to discuss, is how to optimize our consumption of these 2 fats.

OMEGA 3 FATS

The main omega 3 fat is called Linolenic acid (LNA).

From LNA, come the derivates Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA), and Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA).

Results indicate that the anabolic attributes of omega 3 fats are derived from these two derivates—EPA and DHA.

The benefits of omega 3 fats are well documented. These include enhanced insulin sensitivity, thermogenesis, decreased inflammation (both vital for recovery, and for joint pain), and they can also help various heart related diseases through lowering triglycerides, blood pressure, and blood clotting.

The issue is this: our body does not efficiently convert LNA to EPA and DHA. Furthermore, various things, such as an high ratio of omega 6:3 fats, further decreases this conversion process.

To put this in perspective, typically < 5–10% of LNA is converted into EPA and 2–5% into DHA. Furthermore, a high ratio of omega 6:3 fats—typical of the western diet—can decreases this conversion process by 50%!!!!

Read this article for lots of information on this, http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/78/...ourcetype=HWCIT

That is an incredible article. I highly advise reading it. It pretty much says exactly what I am trying to get across.

The point is this: from my research, consuming LNA as your source of omega 3 fats is entirely inefficient; even if you have a good ratio of omega 3:6 fatty acids.

Therefore, I am proposing that a bodybuilder should consume straight EPA and DHA.

Where can we get this?

Typically, only from fish.

But this still is not 100% efficient, because fish has other fats, and it also has protein, and other nutrients. And, while fish is a great food, to consume enough of this daily is highly unlikely.

Therefore, I personally opt for an omega 3 supplement, that is potent in EPA and DHA.


Previously, I had been consuming things like flax, and other sources of LNA, along with 3-6 grams of EPA and DHA. But now, I am—unless someone can convince me otherwise—going to switch to only EPA and DHA as my source of omega 3 fats.

OMEGA 6 FATTY ACIDS

The main omega 6 parent, is called linoleic acid (LA).

This gets converted again, into several derivates, which carry out its ergogenic benefits.

Now, it appears that numerous of these ergogenic benefits are mediated through its derivative, Gamma-Linolenic acid (GLA).

For instance, decreasing cholesterol is 170 times more potent by consuming direct GLA, then LA.

So from my perspective, having linoleic acid is kind of liking going through a middle man—some information is bound to be lost. So why not just go straight to the source—GLA?

I am proposing that we just consume our omega 6 fats from GLA.



To summarize what I would like to know from you guys:

1. What should our omega 3 fats come from?
2. What should our omega 6 fats come from?


Based on my research, I strongly believe that

1. Our omega 3 fats should come from straight EPA and DHA through a fish oil supplements.
2. Our omega 6 fats should come from GLA.


I also have a couple other things I would like to see.

Have you guys seen any studies that directly compare the ergogenic effects of EPA and DHA to consuming LNA from something like flax? For instance, they have done studies comparing whey protein, to straight essential amino acids, and found that consuming 1/3rd of the amount of calories can stimulate the same amount of protein synthesis.

So I am wondering, if say, you can have ½ the amount of calories from consuming straight EPA and DHA, compared to LNA from something such as flax, and get the same benefits. Let me know if you see something like this. If they have not, we need to test this!!!

I showed an example of just this with GLA and cholesterol.

Finally, if you find a good GLA supplement please post it here, http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum...page/0#1214054 [img]/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I look forward to your responses!

TheShanMan 07-20-2006 10:57 PM

Re: How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet Part II - Essential Fats
 
So Venom, that would mean you're proposing that I give up the one "vice" in my diet, natural peanut butter (since it's a source of omega 6)? Oh, man, you're asking a lot; I live for the stuff! [img]/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Seriously though, your research is always inspiring to me!

Venom 07-27-2006 05:17 PM

Re: How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet Part II - Essential Fats
 
lol, well, PB also is an incomplete protein, and its high in monunsaturated fats, which are good, but have the lowest satiety among fats. [img]/forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] So I might get stoned for this by the huge PB following out there, but...yes. [img]/forum/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

Any more comments, guys?

didymus 07-27-2006 06:03 PM

Re: How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet Part II - Essential Fats
 
I am curious what the typical strict bodybuilding diet (not considering oil supplements) gives in terms of an omega-6:3 ratio. I know the general population gets many n-6 fats from fried foods etc, but bodybuilders generally avoid this. I also wonder if such a varied ratio can affect conversion of LNA to DHA/EPA..

[ QUOTE ]
If a person minimizes n-6 fatty acids and uses large amounts of n-3 fatty acids [ie, > 2 tbsp (28 g) flax oil/d], resulting in an n-6-to-n-3 ratio of < 1:1, insufficient LA conversion to AA can occur. Elongase and desaturase enzymes preferentially convert n-3 fatty acids, when compared with n-6 fatty acids. A balance of 2:1–4:1 (n-6:n-3) appears optimal for vegetarians and others who do not receive preformed EPA and DHA.

[/ QUOTE ]
This claims too little (relative) n6 FAs will cause limited conversion to AA and presumably GLA (which you mention above).

It would be nice if someone would market an oil with an optimal ratio of n6:n3 and containing the most active derivatives.

didymus 07-27-2006 06:16 PM

Re: How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet Part II - Essential Fats
 
So essentially too much omega-6 (LA) can cause decreased conversion of omega-3, while too little can cause decreased conversion of omega-6. This problem could theoretically be avoided by supplementing with the more active forms.

didymus 07-27-2006 06:39 PM

Re: How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet Part II - Essential Fats
 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...l=pubmed_docsum

[ QUOTE ]
We conclude that the LCPUFA omega3 status can not be improved by supplementation of low dose GLA, neither by co-supplementation of ALA.

[/ QUOTE ]
This indicates that GLA supplementation does not infact cause decreased conversion (or increased) of omega-3s. Interesting, since the review article you linked indicated that too much n-6 (LA) can decrease n-3 conversion. So GLA wont affect conversion, but LA (its precursor) will?

Venom 07-29-2006 03:19 AM

Re: How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet Part II - Essential Fats
 
Great research!

[ QUOTE ]
This problem could theoretically be avoided by supplementing with the more active forms.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is my sentiments exactly. Your quote on omega 6 fats further supports this. It just makes sense to me to get straight EPA and DHA and GLA, instead of going through a middle man. This would seemingly avoid any conversion issues.

The experiment that needs to be done (I don't know if they have tested this) is to give someone 10 grams of LNA and 10 grams of straight EPA and DHA, and then measure several variables such as insulin sensivity, protein degredation, cardiovascular diseases, etc. and see how much more effective EPA and DHA are. That would be an awesome study. You could also test this, in the presence of omega 6 fatty acids, which should interfer with the benefits of LNA, but not EPA and DHA. For instance, lets say that if you only consume omega 3 fats, then EPA and DHA are just twice as effective as LNA; but if you combine that with omega 6 fats (which you probably should) then it may be three times more effective.

The next question is: how much EPA and DHA do you need in total? Same thing for GLA?

The dosages they adminster in most of these studies are really small. For instance, that study you quoted above: 2 grams of ALA and 1.5 grams of GLA daily. That is barely the RDA. [img]/forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

President Wilson 07-29-2006 03:42 AM

Re: How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet Part II - Essential Fats
 
[ QUOTE ]
That is barely the RDA.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have several issues with the RDA. Next months issues which comes out in about a week will address an alternative view, but I digress.

Speaking of EPA, I am going to be talking to some of the scientists at FSU about doing some studies on its effects on hindering protein degradation in healthy individuals, as it appears to be just as effective as HMB in cancerous conditions.

Venom 07-29-2006 03:45 AM

Re: How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet Part II - Essential Fats
 
You are going to do some sick research at FSU, I am pumped!

And I always crack up when you apply cancer and diabetes studies to bodybuilding lol. [img]/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Armor for Sleep 07-29-2006 11:45 PM

Re: How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet Part II - Essential Fats
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That is barely the RDA.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have several issues with the RDA. Next months issues which comes out in about a week will address an alternative view, but I digress.

Speaking of EPA, I am going to be talking to some of the scientists at FSU about doing some studies on its effects on hindering protein degradation in healthy individuals, as it appears to be just as effective as HMB in cancerous conditions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome, I can't wait to hear the results of that study if it happens. No question on the RDA argument though. Its way outdated and inefficient for normal people let alone BBers.


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