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-   -   Should We Starve Ourselves for 8 Hours Everyday?!? (http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79792)

Venom 06-30-2006 09:39 PM

Should We Starve Ourselves for 8 Hours Everyday?!?
 
The title may sound ridiculous, but that is what most of us have done daily for the majority of our lives. That is, we donít eat anything for 8 hours + while sleeping at night.

So I have three questions.

1. Should we wake up in the middle of the night to eat, or starve for 8 hours?
2. What are the positives and negatives to eating in the middle of the night?
3. If you were to eat in the middle of the night, what would you eat, and why?

War5475 06-30-2006 09:48 PM

Re: Should we Starve Ourselves for 8 Hours everyday?!?
 
I agree that we should eat somthing during the night. When i make sure i eat right before sleep and then wake up and eat somthing during the night. Go back to sleep wake up and imediatly eatsomthing. I feel much better.

As to what. I dont feel im qualified to answere that. I just make sure its high in protein and low in sugar and carbs. Somtiems its a shake somtimes some type of meat.

Its funny ever since Jay Cutler started telling people he eats during the night. Ive noticed alot of other BB say the same thing now. It makes since. Its got to be stressful on the body to go so long without eating.

book 07-01-2006 02:07 AM

Re: Should We Starve Ourselves for 8 Hours Everyday?!?
 
[ QUOTE ]
The title may sound ridiculous, but that is what most of us have done daily for the majority of our lives. That is, we donít eat anything for 8 hours + while sleeping at night.

So I have three questions.

1. Should we wake up in the middle of the night to eat, or starve for 8 hours?
2. What are the positives and negatives to eating in the middle of the night?
3. If you were to eat in the middle of the night, what would you eat, and why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well firstly I don't think we'd be starving ourselves for 8 hours, because the pre-bed caesin meal would last at least 4 hours before catabolism starts to occur.

But at night, when metabolism is lower and the body requires a lot less energy to function, how catabolic is sleeping? Personally I don't think it is at all - matter of fact I would argue against chronically waking yourself up via unnatural means (alarm clock which the Circadium articles show wrecks havoc on a proper sleep cycle) as it would affect the NREM/REM cycle for releasing anabolic hormones. I would assume on a proper diet with meals every 2-3 hours, in a whole week anabolism would occur at 80% of the time while you can only receive the hormonal benefits of sleep...when you sleep [img]/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

1. No, I believe the costs outweigh the benefits
2. The positives are you will stimulate an anabolic environment, the negatives is you will disrupt your sleeping cycle which would have major drawbacks (could lead to insomnia, trouble sleeping, lesser testosterone levels).
3. Well I'd eat a blend meal of caesin and a fast digesting source with a small amount of fats. IMO the insulin sensitivty created in the morning serves a great benefit in refilling glycogen, especially on a cut.

Another thing is wouldn't the cortisol rise create a better environment fot sleep. I remember reading that chronic cortisol release is bad, but in proper amounts it has a relaxing effect.

Hells Fire 07-01-2006 03:44 PM

Re: Should We Starve Ourselves for 8 Hours Everyday?!?
 
[ QUOTE ]
2. What are the positives and negatives to eating in the middle of the night?

[/ QUOTE ]
Getting some calories during the fast would be nice, but it will ruin your sleep. The first four hours of sleep help you recover physically, and the four after are more for mental recovery. This is why staying up late to study for a test the next morning won't help you. Cutting out sleep will ruin your ability to focus.
If you wake up in the middle of the night and go back to bed, you do not return to stage of sleep you were at - you start all over. Waking up to snack would be detrimental to your mental recovery.
From personal experience, waking up in the middle of the night (for a snack, or just to go to the bathroom) makes me physically and mentally tired and unable to focus.

DirtbagDan 07-01-2006 04:08 PM

Re: Should We Starve Ourselves for 8 Hours Everyday?!?
 
The solution to this is buying yourself some slow-release night time protein formula. I bought some a while ago, and I would have it before going to bed at night, so I wouldnt enter an 8-hour Catabolic state. I don't like getting up in the middle of the night to eat, because I can't afford to lose sleep and I just dont like when my sleep is interrupted. So, I went and checked out what slow-release proteins my local health store had. I came across this:

http://www.muscletech.com/PRODUCTS/N...IGHTTIME.shtml

Check it out.

Hells Fire 07-01-2006 04:09 PM

Re: Should We Starve Ourselves for 8 Hours Everyday?!?
 
[ QUOTE ]
But at night, when metabolism is lower and the body requires a lot less energy to function, how catabolic is sleeping?

[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed, especially during REM sleep when the muscles are paralyzed. REM sleep occurs in longer periods as the night progresses. The last 4 hours of sleep would be very roughly 40% REM (assuming an 8 hour sleep), whereas the first 4 hours would be more like 10%. Wanting more calories to use during the last 4 hours of sleep seems a little silly; you aren't going to use many calories then. Although, if you do wake up, you would return to earlier stages of sleep, which should require somewhat more calories.

A counterargument is that sleep does not have to strictly follow the "normal" pattern of stage (like 1 2 3 4 3 2 REM 2 3 4 3 2 REM 2 3 2 REM 2 REM 2 REM wake). Patients with insomnia or other sleeping disorders may get proportionately more REM sleep as the body's way of coping with lack of sleep. So, the bodybuilder may be able to adapt to waking up in the middle of the night.
... or maybe not. Many patients with sleep apnea NEVER get REM sleep. Sleep apnea entails waking up up to hundreds of times during the night because the patients stops breathing when they sleep. Waking once to eat is much less extreme than waking 10's or 100's or times; but I believe you would not get enough REM sleep for optimal physical and mental performance if you regularly wake in the middle of the night.

by the way, my primary source of information is my psychology book Invitation to Psychology by Wade and Tavris.

Hells Fire 07-01-2006 04:15 PM

Re: Should We Starve Ourselves for 8 Hours Everyday?!?
 
[ QUOTE ]
The solution to this is buying yourself some slow-release night time protein formula.

[/ QUOTE ]
That stuff's not bad, but it's not as amazing as the ad makes it sound. It's just a blend of casien and whey protein. A bowl of cottage cheese with a whey protein shake would be essentially the same thing, but a little better. Whole foods (like cottage cheese) take longer to digest than powdered or processed foods.
The optimal pre-sleep meal would be cottage cheese, EFAs, and some LGVs (along with whatever supplements you like).

ElGrizzle 07-01-2006 04:25 PM

Re: Should We Starve Ourselves for 8 Hours Everyday?!?
 
I hear lots of people take cottage cheese before bed. Me, because I cant have dairy, just take a gainer before bed, and when I had it, HMB.

HMB is awesome just before bed. Its anti-catabolic effect lasts for 9.5 hours after ingestion. I usually always woke up 3-5 pounds lighter. HMB literally made me wake up the same weight in the morning, and (because of this) lead me to consistent gains.

War5475 07-01-2006 05:54 PM

Re: Should We Starve Ourselves for 8 Hours Everyday?!?
 
Just hook up to an iv before you go to sleep.

DirtbagDan 07-01-2006 07:34 PM

Re: Should We Starve Ourselves for 8 Hours Everyday?!?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Just hook up to an iv before you go to sleep.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, you just found the perfect solution. lol.


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