Protein dosage after resistance training

[Bahir]

The anabolic effect of resistance exercise is enhanced by the provision of dietary protein.

We aimed to determine the ingested protein dose response of muscle (MPS) and albumin protein synthesis (APS) after resistance exercise. In addition, we measured the phosphorylation of candidate signaling proteins thought to regulate acute changes in MPS.

Six healthy young men reported to the laboratory on 5 separate occasions to perform an intense bout of leg-based resistance exercise. After exercise, participants consumed, in a randomized order, drinks containing 0, 5, 10, 20, or 40 g of whole egg protein. Protein synthesis and whole-body leucine oxidation were measured over 4 h after exercise by a primed constant infusion of [1-(13)C]leucine.

MPS displayed a dose response to dietary protein ingestion and was maximally stimulated at 20 g. The phosphorylation of ribosomal protein S6 kinase (Thr(389)), ribosomal protein S6 (Ser(240/244)), and the epsilon-subunit of eukaryotic initiation factor 2B (Ser(539)) were unaffected by protein ingestion. APS increased in a dose-dependent manner and also reached a plateau at 20 g of ingested protein. Leucine oxidation was significantly increased after 20 and 40 g of protein were ingested.

Ingestion of 20 g of intact protein is sufficient to maximally stimulate MPS and APS after resistance exercise. Phosphorylation of candidate signaling proteins was not enhanced with any dose of protein ingested, which suggested that the stimulation of MPS after resistance exercise may be related to amino acid availability. Finally, dietary protein consumed after exercise in excess of the rate at which it can be incorporated into tissue protein stimulates irreversible oxidation.

Am J Clin Nutr. 2008 Dec 3. Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men.

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/rapidpdf/ajcn.2008.26401v1

[klosey]

Am J Clin Nutr. 2008 Dec 3. Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men.

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/rapidpdf/ajcn.2008.26401v1

interesting but the part of maximum 20g didnt take into account that ths study was using egg protein only most people take in a mix of protein

[Bahir]

According to my sources, the number would actually perhaps be lower for whey, since it oxidizes more easily.

[majinbijiita]

Wait is this saying that taking 20g protein PWO is better than 40g?

Or is it just saying that anything after 20g is no longer adding benefit?

[Bahir]

Wait is this saying that taking 20g protein PWO is better than 40g?

Or is it just saying that anything after 20g is no longer adding benefit?

It's saying that beyond the first 20 grams that are absorbed by the muscle (i.e. for the muscle to use to repair and grow), the rest is oxidized and used as energy. That in turn leads to the question if you will want to use more than 20 grams of protein, since that energy could just as well come from a quicker and cheaper source, such as glucose.

[klosey]

It's saying that beyond the first 20 grams that are absorbed by the muscle (i.e. for the muscle to use to repair and grow), the rest is oxidized and used as energy. That in turn leads to the question if you will want to use more than 20 grams of protein, since that energy could just as well come from a quicker and cheaper source, such as glucose.

since the body can use upto 28g resting 20g doesnt add up since there would be the amount would go up to include ammino acid to repair the damaged muscle

[Bahir]

since the body can use upto 28g resting 20g doesnt add up since there would be the amount would go up to include ammino acid to repair the damaged muscle

That's not what the study says. Where do you get 28 grams from?

[klosey]

That's not what the study says. Where do you get 28 grams from?

standard amount it was in a study a few years back comparing whey and egg protein i'll try find it

[klosey]

other things to consider are
1) no mention of what the exercise was
2) no mention of the users bodyweight

i'm pretty sure the body could use upto 60+g if it needed it due to extreme physical activity, many of the studies are based on 2000cal a day test individuals which is no good for me.

[Venom]

I'm doing an abstract on this next week...thought I'd bump, so if u guys have any more discussion before that! ;0

[klosey]

I'm doing an abstract on this next week...thought I'd bump, so if u guys have any more discussion before that! ;0

cool :) should be interesting reading as i still think their study is wrong and 50g is needed postworkout

[tyciol]

I watched some vids by Ori Hofmekler and he said that while it is important to get post-exercise protein, he said something like you should wait about an hour before taking it because it wouldn't get used until the muscles got less excited? It was confusing.

[Venom]

Studies have actually shown if you wait 1-2 hr to have protein, versus having it immediately post workout, you stimulate less protein synthesis, and gain less muscle. Nuff said...

[bigbear6708]

Venom,

Great post there..that is shocking, yet not really. What do you say to this instance..I workout first thing in morning (630 am). So I wake up at 6, drink half my PWO shake..then drink the other half just prior to hitting the gym..I eat breakfast after training aroud 830 am...is that too late?

[klosey]

Studies have actually shown if you wait 1-2 hr to have protein, versus having it immediately post workout, you stimulate less protein synthesis, and gain less muscle. Nuff said...

I've never understood people who dont have a shake, i forgot my shake once last week so couldnt eat for an hour... i felt like i was gonna pass out after an hour :/

[Venom]

Venom,

Great post there..that is shocking, yet not really. What do you say to this instance..I workout first thing in morning (630 am). So I wake up at 6, drink half my PWO shake..then drink the other half just prior to hitting the gym..I eat breakfast after training aroud 830 am...is that too late?

Depends on how long your workout is? If your workout ats at say 8, thats fine. If it ends at 7, not so good....you could have some bcaas&sugar in the gym right after your workout, then drive home and have your breakfast.

[bigbear6708]

typical rundown is like so...

-0615 wake up, half protien shake (PWO guidelines)
-0630 finish shake, warmed up, start workout
-0730-0745 - workout done, home for shower, get kid ready for school
-0830- out the door, eating breakfast in the car

based on that, I guess your suggestion is BCAA + gatorade or something immediately PWO until I can eat?

[Venom]

Yes, go w/ the bcaas+carbs right after. Then breakfast when you come home.

[williamthatc]

Can you get decent muscle growth without using any supplements at all?

[klosey]

Can you get decent muscle growth without using any supplements at all?

the whole point of a supplement is to well supplement.. its diet and training that get you in shape.. think of supplements as the extra 10%.. like when people say give 110%...