Satiety Tip: Whey Protein is Optimal as a Pre-Load Meal

[Venom]

Here is a full text, http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full...ourcetype=HWCIT (http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/11/3011?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&full text=Protein+Source%2C+Quantity%2C+and+Time+of+Con sumption+Determine+the+Effect+of&searchid=1&FIRSTI NDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT)

This is a pretty complex study, so let me summarize it for you guys.

Satiety can be defined as the duration of fullness or hunger satisfaction between meals.

Results consistently show that protein results in greater satiety (prolonged satisfaction, or reduced hunger) when compared to fats or carbohydrates.

One common method discussed in the literature is called the pre-load. This is where you consume one macro, prior to a meal. A snack per say.

This study compared effects the source of protein on satiety.

Design: gave pre-load of protein 1-2 hours before a meal. Either egg albumen, whey, soy, or carbohydrates. 50 grams of protein were given.

Source: Whey and soy decreased food intake compared to control. Egg and sucrose did not. Soy combined with sugar (25 grams each) did not decrease food intake. Whether it was slow or fast digesting carbohydrates. Egg actually increased food intake above controls.

Time: Whey decreased at 1 and 2 hours after consumption. Whereas soy only decreased food intake 1 hour after consumption.


Take home: whey is optimal for satiety. Soy is second best. And eggs are not very good.

Proposed Rational: whey is fast digesting, and perhaps increases brain amino acid concentrations increasing satiety. Whey has been shown to increase CCK, glucogon like peptide 1, and glucose dependent insulinotropic polypeptide - all of these are satiety hormones. Whey also contains a water soluble compound found in casein that stimulates CCK. Conversely, egg whites a have poor effect on CCK and don’t stimulate insulin.

[huskerwr38]

so it would be good to drink a whey protein shake before eating a meal? that makes sense.

[sucramdw]

Any idea why the egg group ate more??

[Venom]

I did not see any proposed mechanis for that, Marcus. I'd like the see that replicated before putting much stock in that, personally. Because it does not make sense to me.

I think a practical application from this is snacking. If you are hungry, then downing a protein shake will serve you quite well, rather than binging on carbs.

[Rhineheart]

Thanks for the post Venom,

That little bit of advice could go a long way.

[Venom]

I think it can be particularly helpful for a cheat meal. Say you are going out for an event and plan to cheat. Well, having a whey protein pre-load could really minimize the amount of damage you do. That could be the difference between consuming an apple pie at the end of your main course or not!!

[President Wilson]

I find when I am dieting hardcore that I preload with a small shake an hour before at least 3 of my meals, and it helps immensely.

the mTOR pathway which stimulates protein synthesis is the main pathway which leucine operates through. mTOR also acts to increase satiation. In fact Roh and colleagues found that mTOR signaling was responsible for leptin production in adipocytes and is perhaps the main signal which transduces increased food intake to leptin increases.

If this is the case then satiety is partly regulated by extracellular amino concenctration, which would be proportional to the speed of digestion, which would explain partly the effects of whey protein.

For more info on mTOR see

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/leucine1.php

and for a good study on leucine signaling on leptin see

http://ajpendo.physiology.org.proxy.lib.fsu.edu/cgi/content/abstract/284/2/E322

In that study as discussed Roe et al " found that addition of leucine to isolated rat adipocytes significantly increased leptin production by these cells, suggesting that postprandial leptin levels may be directly regulated by dietary leucine. "

And these effects were attenuated when they administered an mTOR agonist.

From this we see completely the rationale behind whey's satiety effects verses say egg protein. That is, whey protein is much faster digesting than egg protein, and therefore raises extra cellular leucine levels to a much greater extent as opposed to a slower more sustained increase.

Predictably, you should be able to get the same satiety by just consuming a 45 calorie amino acid shooter shake!

[Rhineheart]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it can be particularly helpful for a cheat meal. Say you are going out for an event and plan to cheat. Well, having a whey protein pre-load could really minimize the amount of damage you do. That could be the difference between consuming an apple pie at the end of your main course or not!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahaha. That is precisely what I was thinking Venom. Those blasted family celebration dinners and such are killers.

[Adam Knowlden]

Pres is right on. I utilized this protocol and it worked great. I find it's really beneficial to prevent snacking.

[sucramdw]

How many grams of protein do you have in these pre-meal shakes?

[Venom]

Based on the above research, you should have around 40 grams off protein. Incidentally, that also appears to the optimal dosage for protein balance.

[Dzoni]

In my offseason I have always taken a shake before my refeed meals and it has kept my protein intake up for one (depends what kind of food I ate) and second of all it did stop me from eating a lot more then what I really could have ate without the shake.

If you look back at some of my older posts, I used to recommend that to people before their cheat meals/days. Dunno if anyone of them paid any attention + taken it in to consideration on their cheat days.

I plan on doing the same deal with my next off season. I think it works like a charm.

But for me it usually makes a difference between a whole home made pizza and a home made cheese cake to only the pizza or half of each /forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I feel like home made pizza, double base, cheese in between with ketchup, cottage cheese on top with BBQ sauce, your meats and veggies you desire with plenty of cheese on top. Serving size = 6 people or 1 Dzoni

[Adam Knowlden]

I usually have about 2 standard scoops of whey and some glutamine.

Dzoni that pizza sounds disgusting.

[Venom]

[ QUOTE ]

If you look back at some of my older posts, I used to recommend that to people before their cheat meals/days. Dunno if anyone of them paid any attention + taken it in to consideration on their cheat days.

[/ QUOTE ]

haha. That last sentence made me laugh. Yes, we all need to listen when the big D talks. /forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Yeah, that pizza sounds pretty...unique. Is that like an auzzie specialty or something?

[Dzoni]

Haha one of those things you just make up as you go along. The pizza isn't bad tasting. The ingredients together sound pretty horrid!

I just the think overwhelming feeling you get before the cheat makes anything taste great, LOL!

[sucramdw]

So if someone is eating 7 meals a day with roughly 40g of protein in each feeding, and also adding 3 40gram pre-meal feedings, this would be 400 grams of protein. You guys dont think this is too much?

[Venom]

Yes, that is too much.

[President Wilson]

This is where BCAAs can come in handy. In addition with those, you may also be able to lower your protein content within a meal, such that total caloric content throughout a day is a constant

[sucramdw]

So then how is this supposed to be implemented? Should my meal frequency go down, should the following meals have half the protein?

[President Wilson]

What you might do is this.

1. You can try simply adding in between meals 10 grams of EAAs
as a preload to the meals you are most hungry in( this may be for 3 specific meals during the day), but maintain your meal frequency.


Overall this would help muscle growth as well.

If you were dieting hard, and trying this for everymeal. You could lower your protein in your meal proportional to the number of grams you are supplementing in the preload so that overall you get the same amount of amino acids in a day.

So if you have 50 grams of protein in a meal, you may have 10 grams of EAAs before, and 40 grams of protein in the meal.

[Rhineheart]

[ QUOTE ]
So then how is this supposed to be implemented? Should my meal frequency go down, should the following meals have half the protein?

[/ QUOTE ]

I took this post not as advice for everyday hardcore training diets. But on the days like holidays (ie. Thanksgiving), where you know you're going to cheat so you can take down a 40g whey shake in order to prevent yourself from completely binging.

[Dzoni]

It's really simple. Plan on downing a lot of junk? Grab a protein shake before hand. No need to go in to such detail. I personally use this method in my off season, every carb up/cheat day. So that may be once to twice a week.

There is no "right or wrong" about it. It's just used, so you can get enough protein in (as the most important part of our diet) and also ables you to not eat as much as you would have normally.

No rocket science about it. If you want two scoops, use two scoops. Simple.

Personally, I would use WHEY as there is no need using other Aminos for this (BCAAs etc.) that may cost a bit more then Whey does.

[Adam Knowlden]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I would use WHEY as there is no need using other Aminos for this (BCAAs etc.) that may cost a bit more then Whey does.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about caloric efficiency though?

[Dzoni]

I don't believe you're familiar with the way I organize my diet. Protein is in first, no matter what. And a lot of it.

This means, if I am going to cheat, I need my protein. If my cheat meal is going to be high GI, I get my protein in from WHEY as I need it.

Cheat meal = a lot of calories, which I already plan for. If I am going to be worried about the extra 200 cals from a shake, then I may as well not cheat (rather call it a refeed day, as cheat implies it to be a "non planned event").

Hopefully I understood your question correctly, OS.

[Venom]

I also don't know what the effects are off essential amino acids are on satiety; based on the mechanisms discussed, I don't think they would be the same as whey. Off course, essential aminos are an invaluable component of the diet; but for satiety whey is most likely optimal.

[Adam Knowlden]

Thanks guys!