upper middle back and shoulder blades

[aricho]

hey

jus wondering what excersises target the upper middle back and the shoulder blade area?

i really want to work on my upper back

thanks

[sloh]

rows baby rows

[FloridaTitan]

face pulls

[Baugh]

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/exercise3/inclinebenchisolationrows.htm

I personally like this one as a alternative to traditional rows.

[Charles Izzo]

This pictur should help.
http://www.muscleblitz.com/176df300.jpg
The rhomboids get worked especially well during various horizontal rowing movements such as barbell rows and seated cable rows. I find that seated cable rows work the best. The teres major also gets somewhat involved in all rowing movements. Take note that the trapezius gets worked pretty well during all heavy back movements such as deadlifts and various rows, but isolation is done by shrugs.

The posterior deltoids are worked by doing bent over lateral raises and face pulls.

The infraspinatus and teres minor are worked directly by external rotations of all variations. Note that these muscles do not recieve enough work acting as stabalizers during other back movements and therefore it is essential to isolate them. So now you want to know what external rotations are, right? I think this article should help:
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=280rotator2
There is also a thread in the archieves section of the drsquat.com forum called Rotator Cuff (In & Out)?.
I think that should help too.

Conclusion:
Do strict seated cable rows (or any other horizontal rowing movement) to work the rhomboids. Do face pulls or bent over lateral raises for the posterior deltoids. And do all variations of external rotations to work the infraspinatus and teres minor. Note, the infraspinatus and teres minor I think are the most important on the list and neglecting them
can lead to injury in the future. Isolating them separately will not only help you with the looks you want as a bodybuilder, but their strength will also help you to become
stronger in all movements that involve movement about the shoulder joint and they will help you to avoid injury in the future. Of course the other muscles discussed are quite important too and I suggest that they should be isolated for
the same reason, to avoid muscular imbalances that can lead to injury in the future.

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I sure hope that helps. Feel free to ask if you need any further explanations on these matters, especially when working the infraspinatus and teres minor. I know it's hard to find information on how to work these muscles because most people just don't know about it. It actually took me a while to get it, but I finally got it!

[jeremiahj]

i know DOMS isnt an indication of muscle growth.. but my upper/middle back today is killing me. yesterday i did close grip pull ups- 3 sets. deadlifts-3 sets. face pulls-3 sets (which im giving credit for the upper/mid back DOMS). shoulder shrugs-3 sets. try that out if youre a borderline-beginner like myself, and lookin for a new back routine..

[Charles Izzo]

[ QUOTE ]
i know DOMS isnt an indication of muscle growth.. but my upper/middle back today is killing me. yesterday i did close grip pull ups- 3 sets. deadlifts-3 sets. face pulls-3 sets (which im giving credit for the upper/mid back DOMS). shoulder shrugs-3 sets. try that out if youre a borderline-beginner like myself, and lookin for a new back routine..

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't sound like a bad workout. How ever, I recomend for beginners to often do full body routines. You don't have to do it all the time though. Here is an example of an old routine that used to work great for me when I was first starting out and working on building mass:
I would split the body in half on monday and tuesday. Thursday and Friday would be more simple full body workouts.
That way you get each body part worked 3 times per week.
You get to give a bit more attention to each body part on monday and tuesday due to the split. And you get the benefits of a full body routine on thursday and friday. Yeah, it sounds dumb training the same body part 2 days in a row on thursday and friday, but beginners can get away with it, especially if they are only doing about 3 sets per body part. I still do full body routines once in a while, but I usually give more time these days for rest between workouts because I'm a lot bigger and stronger now.

I just hope you aren't doing those deadlifts second in the workout. That's dangerous. Deadlifts must be done first. You will get better results that way.

Not to make things sound more complicated or anything like that, but you should make it a point to throw in some external rotations at the end of your upper body workouts. It is essential for good shoulder health in the long run.
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[jeremiahj]

thanks for the advice. what is your definition of a beginner? i think if someone has been lifting for a year they should be ready to move on to something a little more advanced than full body routines. just my opinion.

also- why is it dangerous to work deadlifts after pull ups? i would think it would be alright since pull ups are primarily lats, and lats are not emphasized in deadlifts.

as far as external rotations, i didnt post my entire workout. just my back. but again, thanks for the concern.

[Charles Izzo]

#thanks for the advice. what is your definition of a beginner? i think if someone has been lifting for a year they should be ready to move on to something a little more advanced than full body routines. just my opinion.#

I'm not trying to put things into classification. A true beginner who has never lifted weights before at all should use nothing but real simple full body routines with just a few exercises; that is until they get used to things.

As far as the other guys who might have been lifting for a while and have a descent amount of experience, it is probably benefitial to resort to splitting things up. So I'm not saying you have to do all your routines as full body. But you should be able to benefit off them. As I mentioned in my previous example, I use to include both full body days
and split days into my weekly schedual and I actually was able to benefit off from such routines for years. Even now, I like to still do it once in a great while. But honestly, it doesn't really work as good for me any more. What seems to work best now, is splitting the body into 3 separate workouts per week. I have been lifting for over 10 years though!I just do what I have to do to get the job done with what works for my body.

The thing I think must be important for you to realise when choosing or designing a routine is that you have to do what works best for you. The sooner you realise that the better because everyone is different. What works for me probably won't work for you. And what works for Ronnie Coleman probaly won't work for either one of us. That's caled the law of individual differences. Don't let that fool you though, we are all governed by the same laws of science!

#also- why is it dangerous to work deadlifts after pull ups? i would think it would be alright since pull ups are primarily lats, and lats are not emphasized in deadlifts.#

You can't really think of deadlifts that way. It seems when you ask a bodybuilder what deadlifts are for, the typical reply is, "lower back".
But the fact is, pretty much all the muscles in the entire body get involved in the deadlift. You think the lats don't get worked during the deadlift? Try deadlifting 400 lbs, then come back and tell me how your lats feel. They will be sore as hell!
Ok, to begn with, deadlift is a power movement. It's a big heavy movement and that's where all your mass is going to come from. You want to do it first so that you can have all your muscles fresh and ready to go. That way you can get the most out of it. So that's the main reason why I say to do them first. Now if you do your pull ups first, your lats will already be fatigued when doing the deadlifts. When you go and try to lift that heavy weight, the lats are supposed to help out, but they can't because they are fatigued. Just think, a lot of weight in your hands and your lats give out on you because they are fatigued. Bad news! You can end up tearing a muscle or some connective tissue that way. Come to
think of it, my friend got a serious injury doing something
like that rescently. He went and did deadlifts one day, wrists the next, and heavy shrugs on the 3rd day. His wrists were already beat to hell when he went to do those shrugs. Due to the fatigued wrist muscles and the heavy shrugs, he ripped some muscle and connective tissue near where the bones are attached at the elbow joint! Ouch!

Oh, yeah, and even though the lats get some work in deadlifts, you still have to do other stuff to work them such as pull ups and/or rows.

#as far as external rotations, i didnt post my entire workout. just my back. but again, thanks for the concern.#

Sounds to me like you are doing good and learning well. Keep up the good work!
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[williepumps]

I do my pull ups before deads to warm up. I don't see a problem with it as long as its to warm up. Don't go to falure. I like them cause they streach me and get me warm.

[jeremiahj]

charles. thanks.

what do you do for a warmup then on back day.

[Charles Izzo]

[ QUOTE ]
charles. thanks.

what do you do for a warmup then on back day.

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on what I am doing working on that day.

On a deadlift day I just do a few sets with lighter weights on my way up to the heavy weights. I do the same amount of reps with the lighter weight as I do with the heavier weight. The warm up only serves to prepare me for the heavier weights and thus I don't want to fatigue my muscles. The warm up reps are done explosively just like on my heavy sets. On a light day I might only do 2 to 3 warm up sets. But on a heavy day I will do several sets on my way up to the heavy weight and with smaller increments of increasing weight. This is needed because you need to be pretty good and ready for the heavy weight and it also serves as practice. Lately I have been doing a horizontal type movement such as seated cable rows to target the rhomboids after I am done with the deadlifts. And sometimes I will throw in some bicep or trap work at the end of the workout.

Sometimes I do wide grip chins on a different day. I'm not real good at them yet and they are pretty heavy with just body weight. So I will warm up with pull downs. I will do about 3 sets with weight that I can do the following reps easily: 6, 6, 3, something like that. Then I will do my wide grip chins.

Also, I try not to take my sets to failure most of the time,
especially on my heavy movements such as deadlifts.

[Growth In Motion]

Olympic lifting will leave your middle back sore the next day