Hydroxycut Hardcore

[Trench]

Worth it during a cut?

[DirtbagDan]

I've never used it. But what I have used is NxCare's RIPPED system: https://ssl.perfora.net/s146665725.onlinehome.us/nxlabs/myweb.php?hls=10643&prod=335 and I can definitely say that it's worth it during a cut.

[Adam Knowlden]

No, its just caffeine and green tea, marked up about 20 times its market value.

No, it's not just caffeine and green tea. Here are the ingredients:


Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 3 LiquiTech Capsules
Servings Per Container: 40
Amount
Per Serving % Daily
Value*
Pyroxyclene Fat Loss Blend
Green Tea Extract
Caffeine Anhydrous
White Willow Extract
Aspidosperma Quebracho-blanco Extract 742 mg **
Norepirol Intensity Focus Blend
Deanol Acetamidobenzoate Hydrogentartrate
Xanthinol Nicotinate
Evodia Rutaecarpa Extract
Inula Racemosa Extract
Codonopsis Pilosula Extract 171 mg **
Lasidrate Delivery Blend
Troxerutin
Inositol Hexaphosphate
Black Pepper Extract 55 mg **
Yohimbacore Yohimbine Blend
Methyl 17 alpha hydroxy yohimban 16 alpha carboxylate hydrochloride 4.5 mg **

I should also mention that you don't have to pay the inflated price, if in fact you did want to try it. Check out http://search.ebay.com/hydroxycut-hardcore_W0QQfromZR8QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ3QQsbrsrtZl

[Venom]

Jake and I analyzed this the other day, and we were cracking up at the advertisement schemes. The key ingrediants are caffeine, green tea, yohimbe, and Hydroxycitrate. I discuss these ingrediants here, http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum/sho...rue#Post1219034 (http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB5&Number=1219034&Searc hpage=1&Main=1207185&Words=caffeine+Venom&topic=&S earch=true#Post1219034)

HCA theoreticaly has some efficacy too it, but the studies are very limited on this. I have taken it, and it actually just makes me flat. I did not like it at all.

But anyway, you should just buy the ingrediants seperatly if you want to use something like this.

[Adam Knowlden]

Thanks Trillian, perhaps I was a bit too simplistic.

Could you provide us an analysis of each those ingredients and the scientific evidence that they play a significant role in burning fat?

Thanks! /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[kokokolo]

sounds like an ok pre-workout supplement ...

doesnt make sense to me as a fat burner thing though. thats like advertising coffee for losing weight I think.

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks Trillian, perhaps I was a bit too simplistic.

Could you provide us an analysis of each those ingredients and the scientific evidence that they play a significant role in burning fat?

Thanks! /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, I could but I don't see what the point would be? I really don't have time to sit down and do that, unfortunately

[Venom]

[ QUOTE ]
Sure, I could but I don't see what the point would be? I really don't have time to sit down and do that, unfortunately

[/ QUOTE ]

There really is no reason to analyze all of them. Just the ones not mentioned above. We have discussed caffeine and green tea a lot (can give additional links to those who are interested), and yohimbe is discussed in the link I gave above.

Basically, if there is any other ingrediant in here that catches your eye, I would like to hear about it, so I could perhaps add it to my regiment.

And also, this stands for everyone (not just you). Any contributions are very welcome!

Some info on HCA from our met-max description.

[ QUOTE ]
One of the major issues in bodybuilding is nutrient partitioning. For example, when attempting to gain mass, bodybuilders will increase their carbohydrate intake, which increases glucose availability. When there is excess glucose in the body it is stored as one of two energy sources. The first is glycogen, which is critical for bodybuilders in weight training. Secondly however, the carbohydrates can also be converted to, and stored as fat. To combat this, Met Max contains Hydroxycitrate (HCA). HCA partitions carbohydrates away from being stored as fat by blocking an enzyme important for the formation of fat known as ATP citrate lyase. This has the two fold effect of lowering fat storage, and increasing glycogen storage.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Adam Knowlden]

[ QUOTE ]
Sure, I could but I don't see what the point would be? I really don't have time to sit down and do that, unfortunately

[/ QUOTE ]

My bad, I just wanted to see some validity to the supplement beyond the few ingredients that everyone knows about, not really a huge answer. I assumed you were a strong proponent of the supplement and would know how to summarize pretty quickly.

[Venom]

Seriously though, Jake and I analyzed the whole thing the other day, and their advertisement scheme is hilarious.

Look at this site: http://www.hydroxycut.com/MEN/FAQS/HYD/index.shtml

[ QUOTE ]
4. Are the ingredients in Hydroxycut supported by research?
Yes, key ingredients in the Hydroxycut formula are supported by research. In two 8-week studies, subjects using the primary ingredients in Hydroxycut (Garcinia cambogia extract, chromium polynicotinate, and Gymnema sylvestre extract)

[/ QUOTE ]

Non solicited quote from them describing the key ingrediants.

1. Green tea (obvious)
2. Chromium - common!! I could buy a year supply for 10 dollors. Further, the efficacy of this for enhancing fat metabolism and changing body composition is extremely questionable. If anyone is interested I could email them several meta-analysis and review articles which show this.
3. Caffeine - in every single supplement on the market
4. Garcinia cambogia - This is HCA
5. Gymnema sylvestre - I really see no efficacy to this. It may enhance satiety from the description.

What does hydroxycut hard-core add?

1. Yohimbe (discussed above)
2. Higher dosage and a little more variety of stimulants, that basically have the same effect—they mimick the sympathetic nervous system, like most fat metabolizers do now a days.

Go to this site,
http://www.muscletech.com/PRODUCTS/HYDROXYCUT_HARDCORE/index.shtml

Now this was hilarious. I called President and told him to guess the active ingredient in each of their “5 steps to fat burning” keys in hydroxycut HARD-CORE! We guessed them all, while laughing the entire time. It was humorous, yet sickening how they could manipulate science to sell this scam.

Step 1

[ QUOTE ]
Fighting to Increase Norepinephrine
Hydroxycut Hardcore increases the key fat-burning hormone norepinephrine (NE) by 40%.*

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously caffeine and their other sympathomemetics.

Step 2

[ QUOTE ]
Strengthening the Fat-Loss Signal
Cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) is very susceptible to inactivation by an enzyme called phosphodiesterase. The key ingredients in the Hydroxycut Hardcore formula fight fat by blocking phosphodiesterase, which will then increase and sustain cAMP in order to keep the fat-loss process going.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is literally describing caffeine. I will quote myself on this.
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum/sho...rue#Post1066929 (http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=science&Number=1066929&Se archpage=1&Main=1066787&Words=CAFFEINE+Venom&topic =&Search=true#Post1066929)

[ QUOTE ]
caffeiene inhibits phosphodeisterase, which is the enzyme that breaks down cAMP—a secondary messenger which starts a cascade of phosphylations, increasing catecholamines, etc. It is very lipolytic.

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Step 3 Letting the Fat-Loss Signal Do Its Work
Because alpha-2 receptors are inhibitory and don’t support fat breakdown, blocking these receptors with the key ingredient in the Hydroxycut Hardcore formula will allow the beta-receptors to be activated. Therefore, more NE can be bound to them for greater fat mobilization.

[/ QUOTE ]

This literally is describing Yohimbe lol!!!

Step 4
[ QUOTE ]
Keeping the Fat-Loss Hormones at Maximum Levels
Epigallocatechin gallate blocks catechol-O-methyltransferase (COMT) from binding to NE. COMT usually bind to NE and reduces its function, so by preventing COMT from reaching most of the NE, there will be a greater pool of NE available to bind to beta-receptors, which then means more free fatty acids (FFAs) can be liberated for energy.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is so funny about this, is that they actually say the active ingredient—EGCG (the active ingredient in green tea!). But their dosage of EGCG is not even optimal. I have way more green tea during the day then they prescribe.

[ QUOTE ]
Step 5 Maximize Thermogenesis
Hydroxycut Hardcore works to support the entire fat-burning process by accelerating the breakdown of released fats in the mitochondria. The result will be much greater thermogenesis – a truly hardcore experience!

[/ QUOTE ]

This was a little more difficult, because of their shoddy scientific terminology, but it is a combination of the above supplements, and they are probably referring to L-carnatine as well.

So this is by their own admission.

To summarize, they focus on:

1. Manipulating the sympathetic nervous system to increase catecholamines and prolong their effects
2. Enhaching beta cell stimulation and decreasing alpha receptor stimulation
3. Transporting fat into the mitochondria, probably with carnatine which does not even work.
4. Then they probably add a few things that supposedly swerve appetite like hoodia.

This is what every single supplement on the market does now. The side effects are numerous, from manipulating the sympathetic nervous system. No, it may not be deadly or nothing, but there are side effects that can seriously effect everyday normal functions, performance, and even long term fat metabolism. Some people like these sympathomemetis, but I personally stay away from them now.

But anyway, if you want to get some sympathomemetics, my advice is to pay 50 dollars for months worth of supplements, instead of paying 50 dollars for a months supply (hyrdoxycut).

But again, if there is evidence suggesting otherwise, concerning the efficacy of this product, I would really love to hear it, because I want to get the best results possible, and would love nothing more than to add a safe and effective fat metabolizer! Thanks to anyone that can contribute more.

[pal]

Very nice Oldschool and Venom, actually I beleive I posted almost the same thing (okay maybe not as indept as yours), I wouldn't try to argue the fact with either of you. And as said any of those products that are in Hydroxycut can be purchased at even GNC for cheaper, seperatley, and will last you alot longer.

[Trench]

Okay, so what do I need to purchase to get the same effect? Im going to Vitamin World tomorrow!~

[Venom]

Trench

We state the active ingredients in our posts. Read over them, and then maybe post what you plan on buying, and we'll confirm if you like.

You'll also notice I don't advocate all of them. The only ones I can say will give you benefits and no side effects are chromium and green tea; both of which can actually improve markers of health.

Thanks for the analysis Gabe. Yeah, I know what you're saying about some of the dosages not being optimal. It does seem like sometimes, though, that some ingredients in lesser amounts than normal, when taken synergistically with others produce a great effect. So, I don't know - but sometimes I believe products just have to be tried to really see how they work. Green tea and caffeine are a great, and inexpensive fat burners though, for someone who wants an inexpensive but good product. I agree though, the Muscle Tech ads are the most hilarious in the biz!

Also, this is random, but how is "Yohimbe" pronounced? I've tried looking it up the the dictionary and asking others but nobody seems to know, lol!

Thanks

[Venom]

Thanks for the feedback!

Umm, I pronounce it Yo-him-bay. I hope that is right. /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LOL, sounds good to me!