whatdo you guys think of stem cell research?

[slackie911]

as you may have heard, Pres. Bush used his first veto to block a bill that would expand federal funding into embryo stem cells. what do you guys think of this from a moral/religious standpoint?

personally i think embryos are human life. they have the potential to grow into a unique human being, and therefore shouldn't be aborted or killed in the name of science.

[kwood34]

All for stem cell research.

Embryos can not feel pain. That don't have complex emotions and don't even know they exist. REAL human beings with real emotions and real problems could be greatly helped through stem cell research.

Find a family who has a parent that doesn't even remember who they are because they have alzheimers and tell them that their feelings and emotions aren't as important as an embryos.

[Awesome]

[ QUOTE ]
All for stem cell research.

Embryos can not feel pain. That don't have complex emotions and don't even know they exist. REAL human beings with real emotions and real problems could be greatly helped through stem cell research.

Find a family who has a parent that doesn't even remember who they are because they have alzheimers and tell them that their feelings and emotions aren't as important as an embryos.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Your post seems to be contradicting itself.

[TForce]

Isn't the isse at hand whether or not federal funding will be used in embryonic stem cell research? I believe that science will do it regardless of whether or not it is federally funded, at least until they completely eradicate abortions, and even then they will just go to another country to do it. But with the way the Republican party is looking these days in the polls, that's probably not going to happen.

With so many abortions that do occur in the U.S., it seems that there are no shortages of embryos, just the shortage of funding to fuel the research into the viability of using them for finding cures.

I don't believe that anybody should get an abortion just for the sake of stem cell research, but I don't believe that we should completely abolish abortion either.

[Down 2 Die]

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All for stem cell research.

Embryos can not feel pain. That don't have complex emotions and don't even know they exist. REAL human beings with real emotions and real problems could be greatly helped through stem cell research.

Find a family who has a parent that doesn't even remember who they are because they have alzheimers and tell them that their feelings and emotions aren't as important as an embryos.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Your post seems to be contradicting itself.

[/ QUOTE ]


Agreed. What are you saying?

Stem cell research could be great. And what's all that about the kid born without the myostatin gene? I think I read that on here.

[kwood34]

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All for stem cell research.

Embryos can not feel pain. That don't have complex emotions and don't even know they exist. REAL human beings with real emotions and real problems could be greatly helped through stem cell research.

Find a family who has a parent that doesn't even remember who they are because they have alzheimers and tell them that their feelings and emotions aren't as important as an embryos.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Your post seems to be contradicting itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you think I meant that last line seriously? My point was that it would be silly to act compassionate about an embryo that can't feel and doesn't know it exists, at the expense of real human beings like alzheimers patients.

[War5475]

Ok.... hmmm... Well harvesting stem cells from embryo's. Is akin to slavery. Why not just have wemon give up a single child each so that we can further stem cell reaserch? Im sure they wont care since the embryo's cant feel anything.

Adults have stem cells as well. We could harvest these from all the alzheimer paiteints too.

"okay...."

[kwood34]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok.... hmmm... Well harvesting stem cells from embryo's. Is akin to slavery. Why not just have wemon give up a single child each so that we can further stem cell reaserch? Im sure they wont care since the embryo's cant feel anything.

Adults have stem cells as well. We could harvest these from all the alzheimer paiteints too.

"okay...."

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the worst argument I have ever heard for not using embryos for stem cell research.


Anyways.......thousands of embryos are destroyed every year, why not use them?

[Down 2 Die]

Haha, I have to say that is a terrible argument. How can you say that using an embryo is the same as a developed child or an adult? That's complete blasphemy.

Stem cells can also be taken from the umbillical cord, so what's wrong with using that?

[War5475]

Well for one the body is a temple. If an embryo is murderd I dont know how I feel about it being used for research. But I wouldnt want people experimententing on my loved ones after thier dead. Just out of respect.

But to harvest people's body parts is macob. Why not just designate certain people as organ doners and research bodys. And make the world a better place.

[War5475]

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Anyways.......thousands of embryos are destroyed every year, why not use them?

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Allso if you didnt have this horrible holocaust going on in the first place their wouldnt even be a question about this in the first place.

[rickck48]

I agree with Slackie, I think it has the "Gods' Touch" and should not be destroyed by man! There are ways to help humans with research we are intelligent life most of the times, we should look for other ways. /forum/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[Awesome]

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All for stem cell research.

Embryos can not feel pain. That don't have complex emotions and don't even know they exist. REAL human beings with real emotions and real problems could be greatly helped through stem cell research.

Find a family who has a parent that doesn't even remember who they are because they have alzheimers and tell them that their feelings and emotions aren't as important as an embryos.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Your post seems to be contradicting itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you think I meant that last line seriously? My point was that it would be silly to act compassionate about an embryo that can't feel and doesn't know it exists, at the expense of real human beings like alzheimers patients.

[/ QUOTE ]

Both D2D and I thought you were trying to compare the disabledness of alzheimers patients to that of embryos. That is where our confusion was.

We never said that the embryo was more important than another human. I'd say it is as important as another human. Who are you or I to say who is more valuable than another? Because that is essentially what you are doing, you are putting value on someone's life.

They may not be able to feel or form complex emotions, but I'm curious as to when the spirit of a human forms, hm?

Stem cell research is not the only way to search for new cures, there are so many methods they are employing to learn more about diseases every day.

[kwood34]

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Anyways.......thousands of embryos are destroyed every year, why not use them?

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Allso if you didnt have this horrible holocaust going on in the first place their wouldnt even be a question about this in the first place.

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What holocaust?

You are against couples concieving in this way then too?

[kwood34]

[ QUOTE ]
Well for one the body is a temple. If an embryo is murderd I dont know how I feel about it being used for research. But I wouldnt want people experimententing on my loved ones after thier dead. Just out of respect.

But to harvest people's body parts is macob. Why not just designate certain people as organ doners and research bodys. And make the world a better place.

[/ QUOTE ]

What in the heck are you talking about, War? Who is talking about experimenting on dead bodies? Who is talking about taking other peoples organs?

This discussion has crossed into the bizarre.

[kokokolo]

I think bush vetoed the bill because he didnt understand the bill...

Either that or I Got the wrong information of what the bill was. But I was watching C-span for hours before they voted to try to overpower bush's veto. From what most of them were saying in the debate, they were just trying to be allowed to use the embryo's to study, from artificial Pregnancy places, That they are ALLREADY GOING TO THROW AWAY .

[War5475]

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What holocaust?

You are against couples concieving in this way then too?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am speaking of abortion. And I dont know what your talking about couples concieving in this way.

As far as the experimenting. I mean harvesting stem cell from babies and embro's. Is like experimenting on body's.

[kwood34]

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I think bush vetoed the bill because he didnt understand the bill...

Either that or I Got the wrong information of what the bill was. But I was watching C-span for hours before they voted to try to overpower bush's veto. From what most of them were saying in the debate, they were just trying to be allowed to use the embryo's to study, from artificial Pregnancy places, That they are ALLREADY GOING TO THROW AWAY .

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. If life is sacred, you might as well use it for a purpose rather than destroy them.

[slackie911]

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From what most of them were saying in the debate, they were just trying to be allowed to use the embryo's to study, from artificial Pregnancy places, That they are ALLREADY GOING TO THROW AWAY .

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yeah that's the thing, i mean obviously we have the embryos already and using them seems better than "just throwing them away", i suppose. but where is the line? do we then just start creating embryos just for research? (i believe they passed a law banning that practice, correct?)

[Visionbuilder]

It all depends on when you think life begins. If you belive life begins at birth then there is nothing wrong with abortion (and your wrong IMHO) If you belive that life begins at conception /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif then these little fetus's are as alive as you and I and due all respect for thier lives.

As far as these fetus's feeling no pain that is the same aguement that abortionists gave to thier "patients" years ago. Until someone thought it would be a good idea to video tape a 1st trimester abortion. The baby was clearly in extream pain.
As it was ripped to pieces. abortionists no longer use that lie.


The way they extract the Stem cell from these Fetus's is to toss them in a blender.
Down 2 Die is right about umbilical cord blood being the best way to harvest stem cells, adult stem cells also show great promise.
Vision

[kwood34]

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It all depends on when you think life begins. If you belive life begins at birth then there is nothing wrong with abortion (and your wrong IMHO) If you belive that life begins at conception /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif then these little fetus's are as alive as you and I and due all respect for thier lives.

As far as these fetus's feeling no pain that is the same aguement that abortionists gave to thier "patients" years ago. Until someone thought it would be a good idea to video tape a 1st trimester abortion. The baby was clearly in extream pain.
As it was ripped to pieces. abortionists no longer use that lie.


The way they extract the Stem cell from these Fetus's is to toss them in a blender.
Down 2 Die is right about umbilical cord blood being the best way to harvest stem cells, adult stem cells also show great promise.
Vision

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That is an insane post. They don't get stem cells from fetuses. They get them from embryos. Just like the old embryos they are currently destroying and can't be used for research according to law.

Or Vision, do you think they are "throwing away" fetuses?

This research will go forward, if not here then in China or Singapore or S. Korea or somewhere else. When there are cures for these diseases I hope those of you who are so morally opposed to this don't try and get these cures. So if you have a parent that is dying, losing their mind and pissing in their pants just let them die. If that doesn't seem wrong to you then you have problems.

[Awesome]

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It all depends on when you think life begins. If you belive life begins at birth then there is nothing wrong with abortion (and your wrong IMHO) If you belive that life begins at conception /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif then these little fetus's are as alive as you and I and due all respect for thier lives.


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You can replace the word 'fetus' with 'embryo' anywhere in his post and it still works toward his opening point. Forget the abortion stuff. His point still stands (albeit it off-topic, as he is not addressing the fact that they are already "wasted").

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When there are cures for these diseases I hope those of you who are so morally opposed to this don't try and get these cures.


[/ QUOTE ]

You hope that they suffer/die because of a belief they held? Very harsh.

Please refrain from using such loaded language (note the end of your post: Were you typing really quickly and furiously when you wrote that? I hope so.)

There's no reason to be so emotional about this discussion, none of the opinions on this board will have any effect on stem cell research.

[kwood34]

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There's no reason to be so emotional about this discussion, none of the opinions on this board will have any effect on stem cell research.

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This discussion is emotional by nature. If you have ever had a love one suffer, and that suffering could have been prevented then there is no way to not be emotional about it.

My point about those "morally opposed" is that time and time again I see people switch positions once they have to walk in someone else shoes. You may be morally opposed until you have someone you love suffering. That seems to change peoples perspectives.

As an example I have a friend who is a Bible literalist. She often talked about how it was wrong for women to take fertility drugs to get pregnant. She said that it was "God's will" that they couldn't have children and they shouldn't mess with that. She basically called them sinners.

Fastforward a couple of years and she gets married and can't get pregnant. What does she do? You guessed it. Things change when you have to walk a mile in others shoes.

[TheShanMan]

Yeah, kwood, but let's not fan the flames any more than necessary. And whether or not people switch positions on some action has no bearing on whether or not that action is morally good, bad, or neutral. We don't define morality; God does.

[l0stsheep]

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This discussion is emotional by nature. If you have ever had a love one suffer, and that suffering could have been prevented then there is no way to not be emotional about it.


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Is there solid proof that what you are talking about could have been prevented or cured through stem cell research?

[Awesome]

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This discussion is emotional by nature. If you have ever had a love one suffer, and that suffering could have been prevented then there is no way to not be emotional about it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Really? My grandfather died 2 years ago from alzheimers and this debate isn't an emotional rollercoaster for me.

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My point about those "morally opposed" is that time and time again I see people switch positions once they have to walk in someone else shoes.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well we're not discussing the hypocrisy of the human race. We're discussing the ethics of stem cell research.

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You may be morally opposed until you have someone you love suffering. That seems to change peoples perspectives.

[/ QUOTE ]

Human weakness/sympathy/hypocrisy. Off-topic, for the reason ShanMan stated.

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As an example I have a friend who is a Bible literalist. She often talked about how it was wrong for women to take fertility drugs to get pregnant. She said that it was "God's will" that they couldn't have children and they shouldn't mess with that. She basically called them sinners.

Fastforward a couple of years and she gets married and can't get pregnant. What does she do? You guessed it. Things change when you have to walk a mile in others shoes.

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I was going to post was ShanMan did but then, well, I saw that he had posted it. He is one hundred percent right. Our beliefs may change (or we may give them up for sight of something else), but that doesn't change God's decree.

[kwood34]

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Is there solid proof that what you are talking about could have been prevented or cured through stem cell research?

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Well, mice that have had spinal cord injuries have been able to walk again through the use of stem cells. Thats not solid proof granted, but that is a first step.

I guess I may be more emotional than the rest because I just don't get it. You all say, "life is sacred, so lets destroy those embryos!" I say, life is sacred, so lets use those embryos.

[Down 2 Die]

I don't see any logical reasoning why the embryos shouldn't be used. Do they serve more purpose rotting in a dumpster than for stem cell research?

I am going to start fertilizing my yard with embryos. Maybe that's the solution?

[JTiger]

[ QUOTE ]
as you may have heard, Pres. Bush used his first veto to block a bill that would expand federal funding into embryo stem cells. what do you guys think of this from a moral/religious standpoint?

personally i think embryos are human life. they have the potential to grow into a unique human being, and therefore shouldn't be aborted or killed in the name of science.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, tough topic. I'm not very educated on this topic so my opinion is just that opinion. I feel that in our current climate where abortions are legal and harvesting embryos is legal, we should utilize this soruce and experiement. HOWEVER, I would love to see the harvesting made illegal and abortions be made illegal. At that point, there would be no stem cell lines. From what I have read other cell lines hold just as much promise if not more than stem cell from embryos.

[ZEN MASHEENE]

[ QUOTE ]
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as you may have heard, Pres. Bush used his first veto to block a bill that would expand federal funding into embryo stem cells. what do you guys think of this from a moral/religious standpoint?

personally i think embryos are human life. they have the potential to grow into a unique human being, and therefore shouldn't be aborted or killed in the name of science.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, tough topic. I'm not very educated on this topic so my opinion is just that opinion. I feel that in our current climate where abortions are legal and harvesting embryos is legal, we should utilize this soruce and experiement. HOWEVER, I would love to see the harvesting made illegal and abortions be made illegal. At that point, there would be no stem cell lines. From what I have read other cell lines hold just as much promise if not more than stem cell from embryos.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, abortions should illegal for sure, cuz pregnant, 13-year old girls should be having kids. Lots of kids. Especially since we're experiencing such a population decline.

Oh and opposing the most promising enterprise in medicine sounds like a good idea.

Just make sure that you keep refusing stem-cell originated treatment if you ever need it.