How to Optimize Fat Efficiency in the Diet Part II - Essential Fats

[Venom]

We previously had a discussion in this forum on how to optimize fat efficiency in the diet, http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1150156/an/0/page/0#1150156

When we discuss the efficiency of any nutrient, we mean how can we achieve the maximum desired benefits—I.e. enhanced insulin sensitivity, enhanced protein synthesis, etc.—while consuming the least amount of calories.

For instance, most of you are aware of the amino acid shooter on our website. One of the main benefits for this is that it optimizes caloric efficiency. The Amino Acid shooter can stimulate an equal amount of muscle growth as a normal protein meal containing double the calories. In a recent study conducted by Dr. Volpi and colleagues, a group of subjects were given 18 grams of EAAs, while a second group received 18 grams of EAAs along with 22 grams of NAAs, which is similar to a normal protein serving. While calories were more than double in the second group, the amount of protein synthesis was identical for both protein feedings! By maximizing Caloric Efficiency, an athlete can safely increase calories in the off season, as well as lower calories while preparing for a contest.

The previous discussion on fat efficiency in the diet, focused in on saturated fats; in particularly, medium chain fats.

This thread, I would like to focus on optimizing fat efficiency in the diet, through the consumption of essential fatty acids and their derivatives.

For a great deal of information on essential fats, read this article, Essential Fatty Acids - An In Depth Analysis (http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/efa.php)

Essential nutrients are those nutrients that must be supplied through diet because the body cannot manufacture them from other nutrients.

There are two essential fats, broadly known as omega 3 and 6 fatty acids.

What I want to discuss, is how to optimize our consumption of these 2 fats.

OMEGA 3 FATS

The main omega 3 fat is called Linolenic acid (LNA).

From LNA, come the derivates Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA), and Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA).

Results indicate that the anabolic attributes of omega 3 fats are derived from these two derivates—EPA and DHA.

The benefits of omega 3 fats are well documented. These include enhanced insulin sensitivity, thermogenesis, decreased inflammation (both vital for recovery, and for joint pain), and they can also help various heart related diseases through lowering triglycerides, blood pressure, and blood clotting.

The issue is this: our body does not efficiently convert LNA to EPA and DHA. Furthermore, various things, such as an high ratio of omega 6:3 fats, further decreases this conversion process.

To put this in perspective, typically < 5–10% of LNA is converted into EPA and 2–5% into DHA. Furthermore, a high ratio of omega 6:3 fats—typical of the western diet—can decreases this conversion process by 50%!!!!

Read this article for lots of information on this, http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/78/...ourcetype=HWCIT (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/78/3/640S?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&full text=Achieving+optimal+essential+fatty+acid+status +in+vegetarians%3A+current+knowledge+&searchid=1&F IRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT)

That is an incredible article. I highly advise reading it. It pretty much says exactly what I am trying to get across.

The point is this: from my research, consuming LNA as your source of omega 3 fats is entirely inefficient; even if you have a good ratio of omega 3:6 fatty acids.

Therefore, I am proposing that a bodybuilder should consume straight EPA and DHA.

Where can we get this?

Typically, only from fish.

But this still is not 100% efficient, because fish has other fats, and it also has protein, and other nutrients. And, while fish is a great food, to consume enough of this daily is highly unlikely.

Therefore, I personally opt for an omega 3 supplement, that is potent in EPA and DHA.


Previously, I had been consuming things like flax, and other sources of LNA, along with 3-6 grams of EPA and DHA. But now, I am—unless someone can convince me otherwise—going to switch to only EPA and DHA as my source of omega 3 fats.

OMEGA 6 FATTY ACIDS

The main omega 6 parent, is called linoleic acid (LA).

This gets converted again, into several derivates, which carry out its ergogenic benefits.

Now, it appears that numerous of these ergogenic benefits are mediated through its derivative, Gamma-Linolenic acid (GLA).

For instance, decreasing cholesterol is 170 times more potent by consuming direct GLA, then LA.

So from my perspective, having linoleic acid is kind of liking going through a middle man—some information is bound to be lost. So why not just go straight to the source—GLA?

I am proposing that we just consume our omega 6 fats from GLA.



To summarize what I would like to know from you guys:

1. What should our omega 3 fats come from?
2. What should our omega 6 fats come from?


Based on my research, I strongly believe that

1. Our omega 3 fats should come from straight EPA and DHA through a fish oil supplements.
2. Our omega 6 fats should come from GLA.


I also have a couple other things I would like to see.

Have you guys seen any studies that directly compare the ergogenic effects of EPA and DHA to consuming LNA from something like flax? For instance, they have done studies comparing whey protein, to straight essential amino acids, and found that consuming 1/3rd of the amount of calories can stimulate the same amount of protein synthesis.

So I am wondering, if say, you can have ½ the amount of calories from consuming straight EPA and DHA, compared to LNA from something such as flax, and get the same benefits. Let me know if you see something like this. If they have not, we need to test this!!!

I showed an example of just this with GLA and cholesterol.

Finally, if you find a good GLA supplement please post it here, http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1214054/an/0/page/0#1214054 /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I look forward to your responses!

[TheShanMan]

So Venom, that would mean you're proposing that I give up the one "vice" in my diet, natural peanut butter (since it's a source of omega 6)? Oh, man, you're asking a lot; I live for the stuff! /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously though, your research is always inspiring to me!

[Venom]

lol, well, PB also is an incomplete protein, and its high in monunsaturated fats, which are good, but have the lowest satiety among fats. /forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif So I might get stoned for this by the huge PB following out there, but...yes. /forum/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Any more comments, guys?

[didymus]

I am curious what the typical strict bodybuilding diet (not considering oil supplements) gives in terms of an omega-6:3 ratio. I know the general population gets many n-6 fats from fried foods etc, but bodybuilders generally avoid this. I also wonder if such a varied ratio can affect conversion of LNA to DHA/EPA..

[ QUOTE ]
If a person minimizes n-6 fatty acids and uses large amounts of n-3 fatty acids [ie, > 2 tbsp (28 g) flax oil/d], resulting in an n-6-to-n-3 ratio of < 1:1, insufficient LA conversion to AA can occur. Elongase and desaturase enzymes preferentially convert n-3 fatty acids, when compared with n-6 fatty acids. A balance of 2:1–4:1 (n-6:n-3) appears optimal for vegetarians and others who do not receive preformed EPA and DHA.

[/ QUOTE ]
This claims too little (relative) n6 FAs will cause limited conversion to AA and presumably GLA (which you mention above).

It would be nice if someone would market an oil with an optimal ratio of n6:n3 and containing the most active derivatives.

[didymus]

So essentially too much omega-6 (LA) can cause decreased conversion of omega-3, while too little can cause decreased conversion of omega-6. This problem could theoretically be avoided by supplementing with the more active forms.

[didymus]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...l=pubmed_docsum (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlu s&list_uids=9888208&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_docsum )

[ QUOTE ]
We conclude that the LCPUFA omega3 status can not be improved by supplementation of low dose GLA, neither by co-supplementation of ALA.

[/ QUOTE ]
This indicates that GLA supplementation does not infact cause decreased conversion (or increased) of omega-3s. Interesting, since the review article you linked indicated that too much n-6 (LA) can decrease n-3 conversion. So GLA wont affect conversion, but LA (its precursor) will?

[Venom]

Great research!

[ QUOTE ]
This problem could theoretically be avoided by supplementing with the more active forms.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is my sentiments exactly. Your quote on omega 6 fats further supports this. It just makes sense to me to get straight EPA and DHA and GLA, instead of going through a middle man. This would seemingly avoid any conversion issues.

The experiment that needs to be done (I don't know if they have tested this) is to give someone 10 grams of LNA and 10 grams of straight EPA and DHA, and then measure several variables such as insulin sensivity, protein degredation, cardiovascular diseases, etc. and see how much more effective EPA and DHA are. That would be an awesome study. You could also test this, in the presence of omega 6 fatty acids, which should interfer with the benefits of LNA, but not EPA and DHA. For instance, lets say that if you only consume omega 3 fats, then EPA and DHA are just twice as effective as LNA; but if you combine that with omega 6 fats (which you probably should) then it may be three times more effective.

The next question is: how much EPA and DHA do you need in total? Same thing for GLA?

The dosages they adminster in most of these studies are really small. For instance, that study you quoted above: 2 grams of ALA and 1.5 grams of GLA daily. That is barely the RDA. /forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[President Wilson]

[ QUOTE ]
That is barely the RDA.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have several issues with the RDA. Next months issues which comes out in about a week will address an alternative view, but I digress.

Speaking of EPA, I am going to be talking to some of the scientists at FSU about doing some studies on its effects on hindering protein degradation in healthy individuals, as it appears to be just as effective as HMB in cancerous conditions.

[Venom]

You are going to do some sick research at FSU, I am pumped!

And I always crack up when you apply cancer and diabetes studies to bodybuilding lol. /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Armor for Sleep]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That is barely the RDA.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have several issues with the RDA. Next months issues which comes out in about a week will address an alternative view, but I digress.

Speaking of EPA, I am going to be talking to some of the scientists at FSU about doing some studies on its effects on hindering protein degradation in healthy individuals, as it appears to be just as effective as HMB in cancerous conditions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome, I can't wait to hear the results of that study if it happens. No question on the RDA argument though. Its way outdated and inefficient for normal people let alone BBers.

[President Wilson]

[ QUOTE ]
No question on the RDA argument though. Its way outdated and inefficient for normal people let alone BBers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Outdated is the perfect word /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[William Wallace]

This site talks about the benefits of fish over flax, though actually it talks about seal oil which isn't available. http://www.omega3sealoil.com

On one page, it quotes the book "Protein Power" in regards to the human body's capability to convert ALA to EPA/DHA.

[ QUOTE ]

... but taking flax seed oil is kind of like buying crude oil and running it through your home distillery to make gasoline for you car. If that's the only way you can get gasoline, then that's what you have to do. If you can buy the gasoline already distilled, however, it is much more efficient to do that and avoid the hassle of the home distillation process.


[/ QUOTE ]

It discusses the good and the bad of fish oil (because the site touts seal oil). One bad element is that you can't trust the amount of Omega-3 the way you can in flax:
[ QUOTE ]
The fatty acid content of fish oil depends upon the species, season, latitude and thus the temperature, fresh or salt water, and finally its gender. It can be noted that the female with its roe, is a much richer source of fatty acids than the male. Cold water fish are the richest sources of DHA and EPA. Some species contain more than others, and the content of an individual species varies somewhat from fish to fish. The DHA content of farmed vs. wild fish can be considerably different depending upon the feed given to commercially raised fish. The source of fish is also important. Antarctica has cleaner waters than many other regions used for fish catches. For example, anchovies from Antarctica are very small fish, high in Omega 3 fatty acid content and very low on the food chain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, fish oil comes from the by-product of fish processing waste - often fish subject to heat, spoiling, etc. Peroxide levels tend to be high (molecular distillation probably gets rid of the peroxide, though).

My own analysis is that flax oil provides about 1/3 the amount of EPA/DHA after conversion from ALA as that found in fish oil (assuming optimum conversion rates of 10% EPA and 5% DHA which, if we are eating clean and watching our saturated fats and w6:w3 ratios and supplementing correctly, hopefully isn't a bad assumption). Flax, on the other hand, has 1/4 the amount of saturated fat as in fish oil. So it seems that you're substituting one good for one bad. Personally, I'm going to stick to the previous advice and mix the two oils in my diet.

[TheShanMan]

Saturated fat isn't bad though. And if you use fish oil pills then you don't have to worry about how much EPA and DHA the salmon I bought today happens to have. Of course, it also assumes you're buying a trustworthy source of fish oil pills.

[didymus]

Speaking of, I am curious what fish oil supplement you guys use. Looking around they do vary somewhat in EPA/DHA content. This one lacks the cholesterol and calories found in several others I looked at, although it is more expensive:
http://www.sann.net/triplefishfats.html#

At risk of a touchy subject, I wonder if you guys think the caloric efficiency of a premium oil is worth the cost.

[Venom]

Excellent Research, William Wallace!!!

I think there is a lot of validity to the issue of eating whole fish for your source of EPA and DHA. Farmed fish does appear to have less of these fats; it also contains some toxins which may be hazardous to health. So if you are going to have fish, you should do your research, and get a fish such as salmon, that is fresh, and in season. Otherwise, you will not get optimal results.

Concerning saturated fats, you want to have a little bit in your diet. This is because they are very important for the production of anabolic hormone such as testosterone. It appears that polyunsaturated fats do not have this effect, however. So if all your fats are from EFA’s, your hormones will suffer.

But, there are alternatives to saturated fats from meats; which, in excess may have side effects such as increased cholesterol, etc. For this, I would check out my first “fat efficiency in the diet thread” if you have not. /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, I think the best way to avoid all these issues, is to just get some fish oil, or fish oil pills, as TheShanMan advised. However, you are going to want to purchase a pharmaceutical-grade fish oil, that filters toxins.

didymus

I have used this for a long time, http://www.netrition.com/pbl_pure_omega3_page.html

From my research, this one appeared to have the highest EPA/DHA density; and it is void of toxins.

[William Wallace]

Interestingly enough, Venom's link to "pharmaceutical grade Fish Oil" proves that not all fish oils are created equal. The brand that I've been taking only has 1.25 grams of omega-3 as well as 1.5 g of saturated fat per teaspoon whereas the product Venom mentions has 2.7 g of omega-3 and no saturated fat per teaspoon. So using your product simply blows my analysis out of the water.

If your goal is to increase EPA and DHA intake, clearly taking this brand of fish oil beats Flax for efficiency and there doesn't seem to be a need to take Flax. But, I've been taking about 3-4 tablespoons of flax per day (hopefully inducing thermogenesis). 4 tablespoons of fish oil in it's place would up the EPA/DHA intake at least 1000% - and that assumes my body has been optimally converting the ALA in the flax oil. The next question, then, is: is there a such thing as ingesting too much EPA/DHA?

[Venom]

This is a great question I would also like to know lol. /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The optimal dosage of omega 3 fats, to my knowledge, has not been determined.

Just as a thought, one side effect I have heard from having too much fish oil, is that it can thin your blood too much, and increase bleading. This is because it blocks sticky platelets. I think including some omega 6 fats in your diet will help balance this issue, however.


[ QUOTE ]
4 tablespoons of fish oil in it's place would up the EPA/DHA intake at least 1000% -

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the point of optimizing nutrient efficiency is that you don't need as much fish oil! So I would at least cut your dosage in half. And I would bet you would get the same, if not greater benefits, AND lose more fat, due to less calories. /forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Two tablespoons sounds great to me.

[William Wallace]

I saw the same on a few websites regarding thinning of the blood if too much is consumed as well as a site stating that too much DHA will block absortion of Omega-6 (AA) into the brain but no definition of what "too much" is. Sounds like a potential Hyperplasia research article /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[didymus]

Thanks for the link venom, that product seems to be exactly like the one I linked in terms of EPA/DHA percentages, but a more expensive and lacking saturated fats (which is good).

[didymus]

Heres a fairly interesting study re: dosages:

[ QUOTE ]
Distribution, interconversion, and dose response of n–3 fatty acids in humans
Linda M Arterburn, Eileen Bailey Hall and Harry Oken

SUMMARY

Human plasma and tissues are responsive to dietary intake of the long-chain n–3 fatty acids, and levels increase in plasma and tissues in a dose-dependent manner. The most effective way to increase a particular n–3 fatty acid is to provide that specific dietary fatty acid, because interconversion of the n–3 fatty acids is limited in humans. ALA accumulates only to a minor extent, most likely as the result of increased oxidation at higher doses, and modestly raises EPA but not DHA. Plasma phospholipid EPA concentrations increase in a linear manner in response to dietary EPA, whereas dietary DHA causes a dose-dependent, saturable increase in plasma phospholipid DHA concentrations with doses up to {approx}2 g/d. Both DHA and EPA similarly reduce ARA concentrations in plasma. Tissue contents of long-chain n–3 fatty acids increase in response to dietary DHA or EPA. Human milk content of DHA depends on maternal intake of this nutrient, and infant plasma DHA concentrations are responsive to the DHA amounts in their milk or formula feedings. The dose-response information provided herein should be useful in predicting efficient doses of n–3 fatty acids for supplementation studies and for developing recommendations for intakes of specific n–3 fatty acids.

[/ QUOTE ]
The relevant point being that DHA appears to be saturable @ 1.2g/d when combined with EPA. This is in contrast to EPA which doesnt appear to saturate. Not sure how much fish oil you're taking currently. I get about 900mg/d DHA and 1800mg/d EPA.

[didymus]

[ QUOTE ]
Substituting dietary saturated for monounsaturated fat impairs insulin sensitivity in healthy men and women: the KANWU study.

[/ QUOTE ]
Heres another study I found relevant. It is one of the few well designed (large and long term) human trials on insulin sensitivity/n-3FAs. There are a number showing non-results in human studies as regards insulin sensitivity.

This one indicates that n-3 supplementation (2.4g/d EPA/DHA) increased sensitivity, but ONLY in the subjects with <37% of calories from fats. This improved sensitivity 20% when ~10% of the dietary fat was switched from saturated to mono-unsaturated (n-3)!

[Venom]

Great research!

Could you post the reference as well; or preferably a link? Thanks!

Also, do you mean polyunsaturated fats (omega 3's aren't monos). /forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[didymus]

Wow I cant believe I didnt catch that. It actually is referring to MUFA and not fish oil, I misread the portion on EPA/DHA, which they also randomly assigned, it was late :P Still an interesting study. Eat up on those peanuts and olive oil /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif


Anyway the title is above, heres a link with some more info:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...mp;dopt=medline (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=113176 62&dopt=medline)

Author is vessby et al.
Diabetologia. 2001 Mar;44(3):312-9.

I found it on medline if you have access to that, or I could email you the pdf.

[rickck48]

great report, but for us laymen, it just went over my head,,could you trim it down somewhat so we coudl understand it also. That's us underacheivers right now,,,,,Great job by the way. /forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[sucramdw]

wooah!!!


I finally get to this thread and look what I find. Supplement omega 3 and 6 separetely in their readily available form!!

I have been spending too much time studying chemistry, physics , microbiology and memorizing every amino acid and their chemical structure!!! I miss researching my interests like this topic!

I will do my research on this as well soon. Let me know when you find optimal and safe dosages for each.

[sucramdw]

Hey Gabe!

What are you currently using for your Omega 3 and 6 sources and how much are you using of each?

Here is a supplement that contains the oils in all forms. - http://www.bulknutrition.com/?products_id=5549
It contains more GLA then the borage oil.

[dashforce]

Something that's been rolling around my mind for a little while --

Do we know how to maximize the benefits of the fats that we are currently eating? For example, we know that our dietary fat can suffer any one (or several) of a handful of fates:

1 - If insulin is high at the moment, there is a better chance that the dietary fat will be stored as body fat (can't say that I've seen much evidence of this, but it makes sense and I've read it everywhere).

2 - For those of us on the AD, we're hopefully oxidizing a good percent of the dietary fat we're consuming.

3 - It can be stored, then later oxidized when we get around to burning body fat.

4 - Soluble fiber can absorb dietary fat and pass it through without absorption (not sure how significant this effect is).

*note* I didn't reference any of these because they're not critical to the point I'm getting at, which is...

Where are the benefits of each type of fat expressed? We're looking at
Sat fat - test booster
MUFA - possible test booster/cardio benefits
PUFA (omega 3s specifically) more benefits than I care to list here

Are there ways to ensure that we're getting full benefits from these fats? At what point of digestion/metabolism do they express these traits? What if you had (for example) a quickly-oxidized fuel source like carbs or MCTs with your fish oil, and you ended up storing the Omega 3s as body fat. Would you benefit from the omega threes at the time of ingestion or 6 months down the road when you start cutting and finally oxidize them? See what I'm saying?

Any comments?

[didymus]

Are you asking how diet related storage/oxidation of fatty acids can affect their health benefits?

Its an interesting question certainly /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

And sucram that oil doesnt look very good to me when you consider the relative amounts of various omegas. Its mostly flaxseed oil which isnt ideal as discussed earlier in this thread..

[dashforce]

That's exactly what I'm asking.

[Venom]

[ QUOTE ]

I have been spending too much time studying chemistry, physics , microbiology and memorizing every amino acid and their chemical structure!!! I miss researching my interests like this topic!

[/ QUOTE ]

haha! That is awesome. I am in the same boat as you. /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif I often miss out on some great stuff on account of my studies...but it's all good. We're learning either way.

I listed the omega 3 supplement I am using up above (from netrition).

For omega 6's, I have been using a "super omega 6 borage oil " from vitamin Shop. It has something like 300 mg of GLA per gram.

Thanks for the link!

[Kotik]

I am definately going to get the fish oil from NEnutrition for my omega 3's.

I eat a lot of nuts, planters heart healthy mix (peanuts, walnuts, hazelnuts, pistaccios, almonds, and pecans, I believe). I am on a cut type diet. They're easily portable. I know this isn't the best choice, but once I lose the initial 10-20 lb, I'll go hardcore and eliminate them and replace them with ideal foods. however, for the mean time, should I suppelemt with omega 6's also? I don't want to throw off the balance. Or am I crazy and do nuts not have many omega 6's?

[Ignoramus]

if u have a typical western diet, then u prob have more than adequate intake of omega 6s.

[Kotik]

[ QUOTE ]
if u have a typical western diet, then u prob have more than adequate intake of omega 6s.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I typically follow a bodybuilding cut style diet, lots of meats, veggies, whole grain breads, wild rice, sweet potato, with the addition of nuts and fruit. I was wondering if I should still supplement with omega 6.

[Ignoramus]

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=51575
perhaps this will help, my own conclusions r to not supplement omega6s.

[Kotik]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=51575
perhaps this will help, my own conclusions r to not supplement omega6s.

[/ QUOTE ]

but as bodybuilders does our diet really fall under the catergory of standard western? what is it in the diet that does this, which foods? is it processed foods like chips, cookies, processed everything or straight up FOOD like we eat, meats, veggies, whole grains, etc?

[Ignoramus]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, when farmers feed corn and soybeans (instead of grass) to the animals we eat, their tissues become full of omega-6s at the expense of omega-3s. Eggs from chickens fed corn, for instance, have one-tenth the omega-3s in them as eggs from free-range chickens that eat greens and bugs.

[/ QUOTE ]

this has been mentioned in several sources. but thats the only thing I know for sure in the the bber's diet that is saturated with omega 6s. think that alone will provide adequate omega6s if u get most of your protein from nonfish meats.

[sucramdw]

Cool Newsletter article on Fish oil for pregnant mothers!!! - http://www.webmd.com/content/article/130/117878.htm?ecd=wnl_din_010207

[sucramdw]

Check out this video from Udo - http://www.videoclipstream.com/t-v/udo/videowindow.html

He addresses conversion rates a little bit, but mostly does not like fish oil because of the way they are processed. So omega 3 from a seed is the healthiest way to consume it.

And here is an article pertaining to fish oil vs. plant oil - http://www.vegetarian.org.uk/factsheets/fishfactsheet.pdf

It does not deal with conversion rates so when it says things like plant oil contains much more omega 3 then fish oil, it isn't taking into account what kind of fatty acid. So it is basically about the health concerns of fish oil.

What do you guys think about this?

[Awesome]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I have been spending too much time studying chemistry, physics , microbiology and memorizing every amino acid and their chemical structure!!! I miss researching my interests like this topic!

[/ QUOTE ]

haha! That is awesome. I am in the same boat as you. /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif I often miss out on some great stuff on account of my studies...but it's all good. We're learning either way.

I listed the omega 3 supplement I am using up above (from netrition).

For omega 6's, I have been using a "super omega 6 borage oil " from vitamin Shop. It has something like 300 mg of GLA per gram.

Thanks for the link!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Venom! I was wondering if this regiment has changed since the preceding post. Have you come across any new products or research pointing you in a new direction?

Insights from others would be appreciated as well!

[Venom]

Nah, my essential fat intake is pretty much the same.

[Awesome]

So, I'm shopping around for different sources of EPA/DHA and I stumble upon this:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/sea/pfo.html

Seems like it's pretty good for the price. What I am wondering is, is it too good for the price? Does anyone have any experience with the company?

edit: Same product, but VERY different specs on it: http://www.allstarhealth.com/f/health_from_the_sea-pfo-pure_cod_liver_oil.htm

Weird.

edit2: Nevermind, that was a different product, here it is on ASH: http://www.allstarhealth.com/f/health_from_the_sea-pfo_pure_fish_oil_plus_lipase.htm

[sucramdw]

That price isn't too good to be true if thats your question. If I compared my Trader Joe's capsules, my capsules might even be a bit cheaper.

[sucramdw]

I looked into it a little more, and I couldn't find any fish oil supplement cheaper then the one at Trader Joes.

My EFA supp. is:

servings 90caps
serving size - 1 cap.

EPA - 300mg
DHA - 200mg

either $5.99 or $6.99

I will take down 2-3 bottles a month

If you guys see something cheaper, let me know.

[Theatrix]

Hey guys, forgive my noob question, as I have just joined your very informative site!
What are you recommending as dailey doseages for EPA/DHA?