levels of glory?

[kokokolo]

do you guys believe there is different levels of heaven? Or different level of glory or riches or whatnot?

also im wondering if you think there are different levels of hell? like how much torment you get .

[psaturn]

Yes there are different levels of Heaven.
First Heaven is the visible universe.
Second Heaven is where Satan and his minions are located.
Third Heaven is where St Paul was taken up to...
There are more but I dont remember specifically what it is...

About Hell...where, I dont really know if there are different levels...you see, I am not interested in knowing about hell. I would like to avoid it at all cost.

[Adam Knowlden]

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do you guys believe there is different levels of heaven? Or different level of glory or riches or whatnot?

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There will be rewards for serving Christ.

Paul stated these will be distrubuted by Christ to believers.

We will not be judged for our sins, but we will be judged on how we served Christ on earth.

Regarding hell, yes, there are many interesting theories about this.

I think this will really interest you:

http://www.voiceofevangelism.org/video.cfm

Perry did two series on the underworld, you can watch them there. Perry is a world renowned expert on Hebraic teachings, lore, and word studies.

[kokokolo]

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Second Heaven is where Satan and his minions are located.

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im honestly not sure if your response was sarcastic or not

[psaturn]

Why would I be sarcastic ?

[psaturn]

Here is an example why i am not the only to say that:
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2- The Second heaven:
The Second heaven is what Paul calls "the heavenly places" in Eph.6:12, a spiritual heaven around us today, as Paul puts it: "For we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places" (Eph.6:12).
In this dimension of the Spirit, there are both angelic forces and godly forces, as well as demonic forces and powers.
This second heaven, spiritual atmosphere, that is cohabited by both good and evil, is a very, very small part of the cosmos. It really just surrounds this earth, the only rebellious and sinful place in the whole cosmos.

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http://biblia.com/heaven/heav-names.htm

And they describe the Third Heaven:
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3- The Third Heaven, our real Heaven!:
The Third Heaven, the one that Paul was caught up into and he heard things and saw things there that could not be translated to the natural world, the third heaven is that place where God Himself dwells. "I know a man in Christ (Paul himself) who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know--God knows. And I know that this man--whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows-- was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell." (2Cor.12:1-4)
And the third Heaven isn't the same as the second heaven, because, remember, Lucifer, who used to be in the third Heaven, was cast from Heaven, and yet, everyone would acknowledge that Satan still inhabits the spiritual dimension. God cannot abide with evil, so there's no evil presence in the third Heaven.



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[kokokolo]

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Why would I be sarcastic ?

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oh, because it sounded like you were saying Satan is in heaven.

despite all the stuff on that website im not sure if those levels of heaven are biblical.

only the third heaven quote actually says in a bible verse it is a third heaven. the first and second heaven seem a little sketchy.

Are these 3 levels also shown on many christian websites? Or is this something that is debateable even among Christian Scholars?

[Adam Knowlden]

Hey kokolo,

Basically "the heavens" in the bible refer to the atmosphere, space, and where God lives.

The word was interchangeable with all three places. The context determined which one was implied.

For example:

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Heavens; plural.

God created the atmosphere and space.

Genesis 19:24
Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens.

Psalm 103:11
For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love for those who fear him;

Here David states that everyone sees God's Glory because they see the heavens:


2 Clouds and thick darkness surround him;
righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne.

3 Fire goes before him
and consumes his foes on every side.

4 His lightning lights up the world;
the earth sees and trembles.

5 The mountains melt like wax before the LORD,
before the Lord of all the earth.

6 The heavens proclaim his righteousness,
and all the peoples see his glory.


The third heaven, Paul is referring too is a place beyond the atmosphere and outer space. It’s just referring to the place where God lives.

Here is what Solomon said when he dedicated the temple:

27 "But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built!


I can't think of anyone who debates this. A lot of people think that Satan lives in the atmosphere because he is referred to as the prince of the power of the air.

I'm not sure. That reference is sketchy to me. We know that Satan has access to heaven.

He accuses us before God day and night; he's not burning in hell. He's probably not even in hell. Hell is a place for unsaved souls awaiting judgment. There are some fallen angles chained in hell. Hell is simply a chamber. It’s like a local jail holding an inmate until he is transferred to federal prison. In this case, they are held in shoel until they are transferred to the lake of fire.

Revelation 12:10
Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.


Satan accused Job to God, in heaven.

6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."


We also see that lying spirits come before God.

19 Micaiah continued, "Therefore hear the word of the LORD : I saw the LORD sitting on his throne with all the host of heaven standing around him on his right and on his left. 20 And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?'
"One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.'

22 " 'By what means?' the LORD asked.
" 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said.
" 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'

23 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."


But a lot about the spirit realm is just theory. The bible doesn't tell us a lot about the spirit realm or the limits of Satan’s access to heaven, his power, etc. …The main commandment is that we shouldn't mess around in the spirit realm outside of prayer to God and to know that Christ has defeated him.

We can get into demonology or satanology sometime if you guys are interested. However, a lot of the theories are drawn out of verses and in my opinion are taken out of context on many occasions.

[psaturn]

I have friends that visited the second heaven and "spied" on the plans of the enemies.

He has seen what these demons and unclean spirits look like.

Apostle Paul talks about principalities, powers, the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

We know that the "heavenly" places where wickedness rules could NOT be in the Third Heaven where God is, so it makes sense to me that it could be the "second" heaven.

[newbuilder]

I don't know why the principalities and the wickedenss doesn't just rule in the hell and stay out of the heavens.