Confused about Armagedon [Archive]

View Full Version : Confused about Armagedon

Nahuel

03-17-2006, 12:08 AM

I've read something I'm not sure I understood completely.

It says that some people believes on the Armagedon, in which the armies of the good will defeat the armies of the evil and then paradise will come to earth for 1000 years. According to the same article, the "armagedonists" believe in that 42 months before the "great tribulation" (which I don't know if is the same thing than the Armagedon, but which only will take place if Israel state exists) arrives to Israel, the christians living on that time will gain personal immortality as Enoch and Eliah did.

Sorry about the messy account, but I'm trying to translate to english what I've read in spanish and I lack most of the words. Do you guys know if this is really what some people believes? Does any of you personally believe in something of that sort?

Adam Knowlden

03-17-2006, 01:12 AM

Its in the book of Revelation as well as the prophets, and Jesus preached about it as well.

 3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ
30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 

The time before the battle of Armegeddon occurs is called the Great Tribulation. It is detailed in the book of Daniel and in Revelation. There will be 3.5 years in which the anti-Christ will set up a false world peace and will unite the world into one governement.

1. Christ came form heaven (John 6:38), the anti-Christ will come from Hell (Rev. 11:7)

2. Christ came in his Father's name (John 5:43), the beast will come in his own name (John 5:43)

3. Christ humbled himself (Phil. 2:8), The Antichrist will exalt himself (2 Thess. 2:4)

4. Christ was rejected and despised(Isa. 53:3), The Anti-Christ will be admired and lauded (Rev. 13:3-4)

5. Christ came to do his Father's will (John 6:38), the Anti-Christ will come to do his own will (Daniel 11:36)

6. Christ came to save (Luke 19:10), The Beast will come to destroy (Dan. 8:24)

7. Christ is the Good Shepard (John 10), The Anti-Christ will be the Evil Shepard (Zech. 11:16-17)

8. Christ is the Truth (John 14:6), The Anti-Christ will be "the lie"(2 Thess. 2:11)

9. Christ is the "mystery of godliness," God manifested in the flesh (1 Tim. 3:16), The Anti-Christ will be the "mystery of Lawlessness," Satan manifested in the flesh, the living son of Satan.

After 3.5 years he will show his true self and demand the world worship him as Christ.

 5The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. 6He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. 

The battle of Armageddon (Armageddo is a translation of Megiddo, its a huge valley in Israel where hundres of battles have occured ) is not really one battle, its three seperate battles.

http://www.jerrypippin.com/armageddon%20site.jpg

First Russia will try to destroy Israel, then Asia, then finally the entire world will under the banner of the anti-Christ.

The anti-Christ will join the world to destroy Israel, and Christ will return and all believers. Christ will crush His enemies.

 11I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter."He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.



He will return to the Mt. of Olives,

Zechariah 14:4
On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 

where he ascended,

 9After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

10They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."



and walk through the Eastern Gates of Jerusalem and re-claim the throne of David

 18Then will I stablish the throne of thy kingdom, according as I have covenanted with David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man to be ruler in Israel.


 11The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.


and reign for 1000 years.

 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.


Its called the Mellinial reign of Christ.

Awesome

03-17-2006, 02:03 AM

Wow OS! Awesome post!!

Thanks a lot for that!

kwood34

03-17-2006, 03:28 PM

^^Agreed, Great Breakdown

OS, I have a question about Russia trying to destory Isreal. How do you know it will be Russia? I couldn't gather that from the scripture you posted. I've read the first 7 or 8 Left Behind books and they say the same thing, that it will be Russia.

tarheelsykes

03-17-2006, 03:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
^^Agreed, Great Breakdown

OS, I have a question about Russia trying to destory Isreal. How do you know it will be Russia? I couldn't gather that from the scripture you posted. I've read the first 7 or 8 Left Behind books and they say the same thing, that it will be Russia.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had wondered about this too. I found this explanation for this view in an interview of Mark Hitch****:

 "The prophet Ezekiel predicted 2,600 years ago that in the latter times Israel would be furiously invaded by a people "out of the north parts" (Ezek. 38:6, 15). In Ezekiel 38:2-3; 39:1, the Hebrew word rosh, which simply means head, top, summit, or chief, is used to identify these people from the north. The interpretive problem is that the word rosh can be translated as either a proper noun or an adjective. Many translations use rosh as an adjective and translate it as the word chief. I believe the better translation is to interpret rosh as a proper noun referring to a specific place—Russia.

The fulfillment of God's most amazing prophecies concerning Russia seems more imminent than ever before. As we track this nation in the prophecies of the End Times, we discover that her footprints lead right to the land of Israel. In tracking the events that lead to this invasion, one must consider the appearance, the allies, the activity, the annihilation, and the aftermath.

A madman called Gog by Ezekiel will be the end-time leader of Russia (38:2). A host of allies will join this leader when he invades the land of Israel (Ezek. 38:9). Eight other geographical locations are mentioned in Ezekiel 38:1-6: Meshech, Tubal, Gomer, and Togarmath (Turkey); Magog (Central Asia; Islamic southern republics of the former Soviet Union); Persia (Iran); Ethiopia or Cush (Sudan); and Libya.

Ezekiel says these nations, led by "Gog," will come against Israel "in the latter years," at a time when the people of Israel are living in peace and prosperity (38:8-12). This probably describes the first half of the Tribulation, when Israel will be living under her peace treaty with the Antichrist. Near the middle of the Tribulation, Russia and her Islamic allies will descend upon the national of Israel "like a storm—and like a cloud to cover the land" (38:9).

These nations will invade Israel to:
cash in on the wealth of Israel (Ezek. 38:11-12)

control the Middle East

to crush Israel (the Islamic nations mentioned in Scripture hate Israel)

to challenge the authority of Antichrist (Dan. 11:40-44).
Israel will be under her peace treaty with Antichrist, so an attack against Israel is a direct challenge to Antichrist's power. After he has destroyed the armies of Ezekiel 38, Antichrist will break his covenant with Israel and invade her himself (Dan. 11:41-44). 

I personally am not that familiar with these scripture passages, but I was going to read them this weekend

William Ustav

03-17-2006, 04:33 PM

Interesting interview, Brandon. I was also unfamiliar with this thing about Russia invading Israel. This requires some serious study /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

kokokolo

03-18-2006, 12:21 AM

Hey isnt Isreal primarily Jewish ?

Adam Knowlden

03-18-2006, 05:06 AM

Sorry for the confusion. What you have to remember is that the book of Revelation does not stand alone. There is very little found in the book that is not found in some manner in the major and minor books of the prophets in the Old Testament. So we have to use the entire set of prophetic books to get the big picure.

Many modern day students of prophecy (myself included) believe we are dealing with Russia (you will get some debate here however).

Study Ezekiel 38-39.

[ QUOTE ]
1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal; prophesy against him 3 and say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal.

[/ QUOTE ]

These markers seem to be key to indiating this prophecy is about Russia. Cleraly from the description this is one of the prophecies in Ezekiel that is not yet fulfilled. But will be in the future.

We know that this prophecy could not be fulfilled yet, becaus God speicfically states this prophecy will be fulfilled AFTER Israel is a nation again. This was not the case for 2500 years.

See: http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum/sho...;o=&fpart=1 (http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=bodybuilder&Number=342222& page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

 14Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?

15And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:

16And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

17Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

18And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.

19For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

20So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

21And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.

22And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

23Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.



God will miraculously save Israel, as a sign to the world that He is God and Israel is His chosen nation.

It will be very similar in witness as God saving Israel from Egypt at the Red Sea.

Basically no one will be able to deny God is God after this happens.

 8Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.

9And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

10So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

11And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

12And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

Mavrick

03-18-2006, 07:51 AM

im grasping at straws right now trying to understand this...but in essence, (i think the nazis came from currrent day russia/soviet union) so isnt it an example of is to come only on a much larger scale of destruction? hitler being the ant-christ and the UN being god?...is that what it will be like, only diffrent holy armies?

and when christ does come, will he be one, as in...one form, or will he be like an essance guiding the christian armies to victory by telling the leaders of the army what to do mentally and like giving them little hints on how to defeat satan? how would all of that work?

psaturn

03-18-2006, 03:01 PM

Mavrick

Nazis came from Germany and not Russia.
The Soviet Union was Communist, wich is opposite of Nazism (in fact they were mortal enemies).
Hitler was definitely one of the Anti Christ, but not the final one.
Don't know what you mean by UN being god...but the answer is NO.

When Jesus comes back, he comes back as the Jewish Messiah to restore King David's throne in Jerusalem.

He will bring His own armies of angels and saints of old. Imagine seeing Moses, Elijah, David, the 12 Apostles (who happen to be ALL JEWISH!!!).

He will conquer the AntiChrist and send Satan to prison for 1000 years.

Nahuel

03-19-2006, 05:44 PM

Well, thanks a lot for the info. It seems that what I read and understood was about correct. It also seems that you personally believe in that account of things. Do you know if President Bush and other people in the goverment have such a literal understanding of this issue?

psaturn

03-19-2006, 06:05 PM

That I don't know.

Adam Knowlden

03-20-2006, 05:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
and when christ does come, will he be one, as in...one form, or will he be like an essance guiding the christian armies to victory by telling the leaders of the army what to do mentally and like giving them little hints on how to defeat satan? how would all of that work?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey bro, Revelation 19 explains exactly how Christ will come when He sets up His Kingdom.

You see, here in the gospel of John, Christ revealed something to His disciples:

 20Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

21Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?

22Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.


Jesus predicted that John would see Him return before He died. Many took this to mean that John would not die. This is not what Christ meant at all, rather that God would allow John to see Christ return in a vision to record and pass down to Christians, to keep our hope alive.

However, John did see Christ come before He died, and we get the glorious account in Revelation 19!

 9I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.


 7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 

The Revelation of Jesus Christ was written on the island of Patmos, by a very old John, as he was held prisoner on the island for the faith. Here is what he saw in his vision:

 11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.



Here is how Jesus described it:

Matthew 24:27
For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 

[ QUOTE ]
and when christ does come, will he be one, as in...one form, or will he be like an essance guiding the christian armies

[/ QUOTE ]

God will do all the fighting, we will just ride with Him. The bible declares He will crush them with the sword of His mouth.

Isaiah predicted this,

 4But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

5And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. 

Yes God's immediate presence will be with us. His throne will exist in the New Jerusalem.

 2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

5And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

6And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

7Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

psaturn

03-23-2006, 01:38 AM

Check this out...

Israel May Be Next al-Qaida Battleground
Mar 22 2:29 PM US/Eastern
Email this story

By STEVEN GUTKIN
Associated Press Writer

JERUSALEM

Signs are mounting that al-Qaida terrorists are setting their sights on Israel and the Palestinian territories as their next jihad battleground.

Israel has indicted two West Bank militants for al-Qaida membership, Egypt arrested operatives trying to cross into Israel and a Palestinian security official has acknowledged al-Qaida is "organizing cells and gathering supporters."

Al-Qaida's inroads are still preliminary, but officials fear a doomsday scenario if it takes root.

Palestinians in the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and Lebanon have established contacts with al-Qaida followers linked to Abu Musab al- Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaida in Iraq, according to two Israeli officials.

Al-Zarqawi has established footholds in the countries neighboring Israel _ Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and Jordan _ and is interested in bringing his fight to Israel, too, the officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity because Israel does not want to identify those involved in the issue.

Tuesday's indictment of two militants on charges of belonging to al- Qaida and receiving funds from the group for a planned double-bombing in Jerusalem was Israel's most concrete allegation to date linking al- Qaida to West Bank Palestinians.

The indictment described in detail how the two, Azzam Abu Aladas and Balal Hafnai, met with al-Qaida operatives in Jordan, arranged for secret e-mail exchanges and received thousands of dollars from al- Qaida to carry out the attack. The indictment came just three weeks after Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas told the London-based Al Hayat newspaper that al-Qaida had infiltrated the West Bank and Gaza.

Still, Mideast watchers warned against overstating the al-Qaida presence because the issue is easily manipulated for political ends.

Israel has a lot to gain by portraying its local conflict with the Palestinians as part of the global war on terror, and Abbas, badly damaged by the recent political rise of Hamas militants, wants "to show that he is needed by the West," said Israeli security analyst Dan Schueftan.

Both Israeli and Palestinian security officials described al-Qaida's activities here as incipient, involving a handful of local militants who reached out to al-Qaida _ often via the Internet _ rather than the other way around. A senior Israeli military intelligence official said he believed there were no more than 20 al-Qaida-linked activists in the Palestinian territories.

Most of them are unhappy with a year-old decision by mainstream Palestinian factions, including Fatah and Hamas, to enforce a cease- fire with Israel, Israeli and Palestinian officials said.

Hamas, struggling to avert an international aid boycott in the wake of its Jan. 25 victory in parliamentary elections, is particularly sensitive about being associated with al-Qaida, despite sharing core beliefs such as the rejection of a Jewish state in the Middle East.

When Ayman-al-Zawahri, al-Qaida's No. 2 leader, appeared in a video earlier this month urging Hamas not to renounce its violent struggle, a Hamas official in Gaza shrugged him off.

The Hamas official said the group had no links to any outside group. He spoke on condition of anonymity, saying the movement did not want to respond formally to al-Zawahri.

By all accounts, Hamas, set to form the next Palestinian government, is not likely to further harm its international standing by joining forces with al-Qaida.

But al-Qaida itself is making an effort "to operate both in the Palestinian territories and inside Israel proper," said Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev. A Palestinian security official in Gaza agreed that al-Qaida "is in the process of organizing cells and gathering supporters."

If the group succeeds in establishing a full-blown presence, predicted the Israeli military intelligence official, Israel can expect far larger terror attacks than it has seen in the past.

Another Israeli official said a major concern is al-Qaida's activities in Israel's neighbors, especially Jordan, where al-Zarqawi claimed responsibility for the November 2005 bombings of three hotels that killed 60 people.

Al-Zarqawi also claimed responsibility for a Dec. 27 barrage of rockets from Lebanon into northern Israel, provoking Israeli airstrikes on a Palestinian base in central Lebanon.

The Israeli official praised Egyptian security forces for their performance following two bombing sprees in Egypt's Sinai peninsula _ one in October 2004 and another in July 2005 _ that some have blamed on al-Qaida.

He said Egyptian forces arrested two sets of suspected al-Qaida operatives _ one a month ago and another three months ago _ who were trying to enter Israel through Sinai "most probably carrying explosives."

An Egyptian police official at the Egypt-Gaza border would not confirm or deny the Israeli's account, saying, "It's our job to halt any security violations, that's what we've been always doing, nothing less or more."

Some Israeli officials have expressed concern that al-Qaida operatives from Egypt may have entered Gaza after Israel withdrew from the coastal strip last summer.

But Assem Rashed, a former teacher at a Gaza university, said he doubts al-Qaida could find many backers in Gaza.

"People here are against the attacks in Iraq, Jordan and Egypt. I don't think they will survive, or find much support from the public," he said.