What is God?

[spyderman_88]

This isn't a post meant to dismantle anyone's belief, but hopefully I can get a better understanding of everything.

Does He exist physically? I don't think anyone really believes God has form or shape, so how does something with no physical existence exist?

After thinking about this, I realize consciousness is not a physical force yet still exists.

Could God be consciousness?

Could He be the awareness of self we all feel? I feel this is more logical than someone sitting in the clouds, pointing his finger and throwing lightning bolts lol.

What I mean is, does God control our lives in any way... I hope I'm not coming off as ignorant but I really can't see how God just reaches his hand down and performs an act or "miracle". Does God answer or prayers... if so how? I understand (I think) omnipotence and its relevance to God, but I still don't understand how...

I do realize God created the heavens and earth etc. and I really do believe that. But I still cannot grasp the concept of Him physically controlling our lives... Unless, of course He is our own consciousness and thoughts, making all of our actions God's will.

If that's true then do we even have free will?

Obviously, I know I've missed something, and I have flaws in my logic, I just don't know where lol. Any help in clearing this up would be MUCH appreciated. /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[TForce]

This is what I am coming up with, though it will most likely be shot down by Old School's statutes, seeing how they may never be updated.

God is everything, everywhere, anything that comprises the fabric of the universe, everything that has life and energy from within. I would say that He is much like a living creature, in His own right, though on an incomparable scale, and we are just little bitty components of that big picture, like atoms and electrons, we have our own particular place in the universe. If He needs to get something done, he simply flexes his muscles. Of course, within this paradigm, you have the option of going with the grain or paddling upstream. One way is filled with eternal security, and the other is wrought with obstacles. So yes, we do have free will, but the programming is built in to where those who go with the flow benefit more out of it, than those who paddle upstream. You could even associate it with an involuntary process. God does not really need to take part in our individual daily lives all day, every day. He simply said, "These laws of humanity will be in effect. When somebody breaks these laws, their lives will be filled with obstacles. When people abide by these laws, their lives will be more in tune with God's will, without the associated obstacles." Nevertheless, He is probably always watching, just to keep track of what you are doing, what you have done, and what you will do.

I'm going to take this a step further and say that I believe that God guided the Jewish people to write the Old Testament, but that it is not completely, exactly true, word for word, but rather, a synopsis of historical events from various sources which God deemed important enough to include in His canon.

[Adam Knowlden]

Hey bro, my pastor did this sermon this Sunday, its excellent, I recommend you listen to this, I think it will help explain a lot! /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

http://www.grovecitynazarene.org/podcast/3-5-06.mp3

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This isn't a post meant to dismantle anyone's belief, but hopefully I can get a better understanding of everything.

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Sure bro, no problem! /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif You are not the first to ask these types of questions, they were asked by the early church as well as is evident from Paul’s writing.

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Could He be the awareness of self we all feel?

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God is not some cosmic force or divine vibration, He is a person.

He did impart us with a conscience.

Con means "with", science means "knowledge", meaning we commit deeds "with knowledge" that the action is right or wrong.

We are created in the image of God, therefore we have morals.

Our morals tend to interfere when we try to grasp the concept of God. We begin to feel, "Why does God allow this or that", "Why was I born this way or that".

When one begins questioning free will, what they are really questioning is God's authority, Or God's right to do what He wants, with His Creation.

Now first, I’m not attacking you when I say that bro. EVERYONE has questioned God’s authority. Learning to trust God despite life’s circumstances, and when there are no answers to what is going on in your life, takes time and spiritual maturity. That is why James says:

2Dear brothers and sisters, whenever trouble comes your way, let it be an opportunity for joy. 3For when your faith is tested, your endurance has a chance to grow. 4So let it grow, for when your endurance is fully developed, you will be strong in character and ready for anything.

As moral beings we tend to think our moral reasoning is greater than God's and question His fairness. However, this is quickly seen as irrational. If we, being sinners, full of flaws, and imperfect in everyway, have a strong set of morals, how much more God, who is perfect? In fact, God's sense of morality is so power and holy that, as TForce said, not only will every action be taken into account, but God is so just every word will be judged!

Matthew 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

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What I mean is, does God control our lives in any way... I hope I'm not coming off as ignorant but I really can't see how God just reaches his hand down and performs an act or "miracle".

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God is completely sovereign, in other words he has total absolute control over all things that occur in this universe.


Even the smallest of events does not occur outside of the Will of God.

Matthew 10:29
Are not two sparrows sold for a penny ? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father.

Psalm 115:2-4 (King James Version)
2Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God?
3But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
Psalm 119:90-92
91They continue this day according to thine ordinances: for all are thy servants.
Job 42
2 "I know that you can do all things;
no plan of yours can be thwarted.
Job 41
11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay?
Everything under heaven belongs to me.
Yet despite God’s sovereignty we have free will. We can define free will and we can define sovereignty. And we can distinguish the logic of how free will exists, but we cannot explain how God does this.

First what you have to understand is, God cannot be defined in a nice neat explanation. He is way beyond our capacity to grasp and reason. Our minds are so puny and He is so far above us in every way. He is infinite while, we are finite. Therefore no matter our capacity for reasoning, His is infinitely higher than that capacity.

Paul described the mystery of God’s sovereignty and our free will in this way:

Romans 11:36
For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Paul addressed this question in Romans 9. For example, why some are saved and others are not. I recommend reading this entire chapter:

4They are the people of Israel, chosen to be God's special children. God revealed his glory to them. He made covenants with them and gave his law to them. They have the privilege of worshiping him and receiving his wonderful promises.5Their ancestors were great people of God, and Christ himself was a Jew as far as his human nature is concerned. And he is God, who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise! Amen
6Well then, has God failed to fulfill his promise to the Jews? No, for not everyone born into a Jewish family is truly a Jew! 7Just the fact that they are descendants of Abraham doesn't make them truly Abraham's children. For the Scriptures say, "Isaac is the son through whom your descendants will be counted," though Abraham had other children, too. 8This means that Abraham's physical descendants are not necessarily children of God. It is the children of the promise who are considered to be Abraham's children. 9For God had promised, "Next year I will return, and Sarah will have a son."
10This son was our ancestor Isaac. When he grew up, he married Rebekah, who gave birth to twins. 11But before they were born, before they had done anything good or bad, she received a message from God. (This message proves that God chooses according to his own plan, 12not according to our good or bad works.) She was told, "The descendants of your older son will serve the descendants of your younger son." 13In the words of the Scriptures, "I loved Jacob, but I rejected Esau."
14What can we say? Was God being unfair? Of course not! 15For God said to Moses,

"I will show mercy to anyone I choose,
and I will show compassion to anyone I choose."
16So receiving God's promise is not up to us. We can't get it by choosing it or working hard for it. God will show mercy to anyone he chooses.
17For the Scriptures say that God told Pharaoh, "I have appointed you for the very purpose of displaying my power in you, and so that my fame might spread throughout the earth." 18So you see, God shows mercy to some just because he wants to, and he chooses to make some people refuse to listen.
19Well then, you might say, "Why does God blame people for not listening? Haven't they simply done what he made them do?"
20No, don't say that. Who are you, a mere human being, to criticize God? Should the thing that was created say to the one who made it, "Why have you made me like this?" 21When a potter makes jars out of clay, doesn't he have a right to use the same lump of clay to make one jar for decoration and another to throw garbage into? 22God has every right to exercise his judgment and his power, but he also has the right to be very patient with those who are the objects of his judgment and are fit only for destruction. 23He also has the right to pour out the riches of his glory upon those he prepared to be the objects of his mercy-- 24even upon us, whom he selected, both from the Jews and from the Gentiles.
25Concerning the Gentiles, God says in the prophecy of Hosea,

"Those who were not my people,
I will now call my people.
And I will love those
whom I did not love before."
26And,

"Once they were told,
`You are not my people.'
But now he will say,
`You are children of the living God.' "
27Concerning Israel, Isaiah the prophet cried out,

"Though the people of Israel are as numerous as the sand on the seashore,
only a small number will be saved.
28
For the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth
quickly and with finality."
29And Isaiah said in another place,

"If the Lord Almighty
had not spared a few of us,
we would have been wiped out
as completely as Sodom and Gomorrah.

[Adam Knowlden]

I wanted to expand a bit here too.

First, a lot of the world's problems are blamed on God.

For example, let's take a hard question, why does God allow people to starve to death?

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The World Health Organization estimates that one-third of the world is well-fed, one-third is under-fed one-third is starving- Since you've entered this site at least 200 people have died of starvation. Over 4 million will die this year.


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The first question that must be asked, is, is there enough food in this world to feed everyone? The answer is yes! So is God starving one third of the world? No. Human greed is.

The fact is, most of the world's problems are man's fault, and are based on the curse of sin infecting this planet.

Of course if you don't believe in the creation account, the world will make little sense. Many people trying to fit God's Word and evolution together and end up with inconclucive philosophies because evolution denies sin and the wage of sin.

Why does God allow someone to be murdered?

The answer is God does not allow it that person will be brought to justice. That person chose to murder out of their free will.

If there was no true free will, there would be no crime as God would not allow anyone to sin.

Also, God is with you if you have the Holy Spirit in your heart.

<font color="red">the LORD your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you."
</font>

<font color="blue"> 12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth </font>

<font color="green"> 15"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. </font>


The Holy Spirit lives inside you:

<font color="brown">1 Corinthians 6:19
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; </font>

Talk about a mystery! The God who created the universe would chose to live in these weak bodies.

<font color="red"> 20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. </font>

[spyderman_88]

Thanks for the link! I really liked the middle were he talked about people criticizing their creator and how they really just have a problem with His authority. That's cool your church has sermons like that. My pastor just makes a bunch of Packer vs. Viking jokes lol.

Anyways, I understand that God has complete control now, I just don't know how exactly. The point I was trying to make is if God has complete control, then where does he come into play?

Take for example a cancer survivor. He or she had little to no hope of recovery, but due to some "miracle" they recover fully. I do believe God controlled this outcome but I cannot understand where.

I do not know the biological relations between cancer and our immune system, but realistically everything can be explained with "science". The white blood cell count increased in size etc. (I don't know if that even applies to cancer but I think you get my point).

So does God control things at the moment, or are things 100%predetermined? My uneducated opinion would be that when He created everything of His, every single atom or w/e had a predetermined path in the universe. This would explain how God could "touch" us without being a physical entity. I don't think this contradicts free will, but instead shows His infinite power. This is just my opinion, hopefully I can find the truth evenutally.

Thanks for your guys' help. /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Adam Knowlden]

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So does God control things at the moment, or are things 100%predetermined?

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God has a destiny for everyone, but we have to chose to walk in that destiny.

For example, God had a destiny for a murderer, but that person threw that divine destiny away. It wasn't in God's plan for that man to murder.

<font color="red"> Proverbs 16:9
A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps. </font>

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Take for example a cancer survivor. He or she had little to no hope of recovery, but due to some "miracle" they recover fully. I do believe God controlled this outcome but I cannot understand where.

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A lot of times healing in these types of cases, is a result of faith. If you give up, you will fail, if you persist in faith, you will overcome. Its pretty scientific actually. What better object of faith than God!

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would explain how God could "touch" us without being a physical entity.

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The Holy Spirit heals us, He is a Spirit, not physical.

Also God uses prayer to interact in this world. Its vital actually. Christ spent a lot of time in prayer.

God will change His mind based on prayer! Its crazy, but we see many examples of this in the bible. Try to figure that out, God knows everything that is going to happen, gives us free will, but also gives us the power to change His mind! That throws a whole other loop into this mystery. Is He really changing His mind or testing our faith? I don't know, no one does...who can fathom the mind of God?

This will boggle your mind, because as pastor said we can't wrap our minds around it. Its ok to contemplate, but in the end its going to come down to the fact that if you had all the answers you wouldn't trust in God or have any reason to walk in faith. God desires us to trust Him, so beyond the fact that we can't explain God, God hides some of the answers because He wants us to trust Him. Bottom line there, so don't beat yourself up trying to figure all this out.

[XenoWang]

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God will change His mind based on prayer! Its crazy, but we see many examples of this in the bible. Try to figure that out, God knows everything that is going to happen, gives us free will, but also gives us the power to change His mind! That throws a whole other loop into this mystery. Is He really changing His mind or testing our faith? I don't know, no one does...who can fathom the mind of God?

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I would be careful in saying God "changes His mind." To say this implies that His previous course of action was inferior to what he changed to and thus His action or intent cannot be 100% perfect, just, what have you.

In response to this conundrum of God's will (which we must believe is 100% perfect) and the efficacy of prayer, I think this explanation sheds some valuable insight on the matter: http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=5817

[Adam Knowlden]

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Thanks for your guys' help.

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You're welcome! I'll PM you some other stuff soon.

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I would be careful in saying God "changes His mind." To say this implies that His previous course of action was inferior to what he changed to and thus His action or intent cannot be 100% perfect, just, what have you.

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There are a multitude of examples of this very occurance happening many many times in the bible.

God not destroying Israel via Moses standing in the breach.

7And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:

8They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

9And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:

10Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

11And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?

12Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.

13Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.

14And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.


God reducing the amount of righteous that needed to be found in Sodom to prevent its destruction.

God halting the destruction of Israel after David numbered his men.

God not killing Moses.

Phineus halting the plauge God unleashed.

God sparing Israel numerous times.

And the list goes on and on, where indeed a person or a person's faith based actions unleashes God's mercy.

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To say this implies that His previous course of action was inferior to what he changed to and thus His action or intent cannot be 100% perfect, just, what have you.

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It does not say that at all. It is stating that God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. God's mercy can be released through prayer and faith. That is biblical and not God "making a mistake" but rather God responding to faith as I already said.

My issue with addressing you Xeno is that we tend to get into a discussion and you just drop out of it. Also you rarely provide one verse to back yourself up, its all your opinion or a link to somewhere else.

If you do not wish to engage in serious disucssion please stop trying to counter my points.

[XenoWang]

If you read my post again, you'll notice that I was not necessarily arguing that you were wrong but rather, semantics and implications need to be taken into account. My statements about "changing God's mind" are not invalid nor inaccurate from a logical point of view since the Bible supports the idea that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and in all ways just and perfect. Like you said, God's mercy can be released through prayer and faith- without those things, then God's wrath may be wrought. The link that I posted explains St. Thomas's explanation on the matter as it is a serious one indeed. In short, it states that while God's will is perfect and just, it is not a one-way street. He argues that it is in God's will that He change His course of action given that His followers appeal to Him via faith and prayer. Thus, it is not really a "change of mind", as it were, but rather almost like a lock-and-key relationship.

Don't get me wrong OS, I don't go out of my way to argue against you and I love intellectual discussion. My input is meant for clarification and deeper discussion- it is not meant to challenge you. I hope you don't think I'm out as a detractor /forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Adam Knowlden]

I can see what you mean Xeno; perhaps that was a bit confusing. I don't think you're an instigator; I would rather just see biblical rebuttal and not man's opinion.

There are a lot of debates about this topic that go both ways. I kind of took the middle ground to not confuse the poster, but I can see it did more harm than good.

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Is He really changing His mind or testing our faith? I don't know, no one does...who can fathom the mind of God?

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No I do not believe that God's nature changes, or that anything catches God off guard, or that man teaches God anything new, but rather that our faith can have a real influence on which aspect of God's nature we receive and that prayer releases God's power.

I can think of many biblical examples, intercession, fasting, and repentance to name a few. These are all acts of faith that draw out God's mercy. While God has a right to execute His Holy Justice, God's mercy cannot be removed from this equation.

Will God's mercy or justice be executed?

By nature His wrath is upon us all due to being born in sin.

But by repentance His mercy comes upon us. In essence "His mind changed", but not His nature, because mercy is part of His nature as well. Repentance does not compromise His nature of Justice. Nor does His sentencing a lost soul to hell compromise His nature of mercy.

For example, our repentance causes God to throw out the righteous justice we all deserve. Does this compromise God's integrity? No! Because of the prayer and faith of Christ.

Same with Moses. Does Moses interceding for Israel compromise God's justice? No. Nor did his prayer reveal some hidden outlook on the situation God did not already understand.

I personally believe, prayer does not change God's final master plan (His sovereignty), but it can change which aspect of His nature we receive and/or our circumstances. If that makes sense.

For example, even if no one prays for the Return of Christ, it is going to happen. A lack of prayer or an abundance of prayer is not going to change God's final purpose. God's Word never returns void.

<font color="red"> Isaiah 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. </font>

<font color="blue"> Isaiah 14:27
For the LORD Almighty has purposed, and who can thwart him? His hand is stretched out, and who can turn it back? </font>

<font color="brown"> 24 The LORD Almighty has sworn,
"Surely, as I have planned, so it will be,
and as I have purposed, so it will stand. </font>

But also this "change" (I'm beginning to wonder if I can use that word /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) of which aspect of His nature we receive is a result of God's free Will.

We can, in certain cases, chose which aspect of His nature we want to receive, but this is only because it is in God's Will to grace us with this gift. God "changes" which side of His nature, He reveals to us. Its certainly not anything He owes us, that goes against the entire concept of God's grace.

God changing His mind by human standards in the strictes sense is an impossiblity. Changing one's mind involves being shown a alternative vantage point that did not occur at one time to the person, or discovering at some point in time one way is better than another. God knows all things, so no in that sense He doesn't change His mind. However, He can "change His mind" as to which side of His nature He exhibits toward us, based upon our prayer to appeal to His mercy.

He chooses to react to prayer, so we are certainly not forcing God to do anything or teaching Him anything.

I guess what I'm saying is I do not believe God "changes His Mind" in the strictest sense, but rather He gives us, in some cases, the power to chose which aspect of His nature we receive.

Also prayer is vital to staying pure and staying in the Will of God that He has purposed for our individual lives. This is evident due to the intense prayer life of Christ.

Here are two articles, one says "no God never changes His mind" the other says "Yes God can change His original intentions through prayer". I hope this cleared up where I'm coming from.


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Question: "Does God change His mind?"



Answer: Psalm 102:25-27 says “Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens [are] the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou [art] the same, and thy years shall have no end.” Also, Malachi 3:6 says “ For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.” And finally, James 1:17 tells us “Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.”



These verses assert that God is unchanging, and unchangeable. However, it can seem that there is a contradiction between what is taught by these verses, and other verses such as Genesis 6:6 “And it repented the LORD that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him at His heart.” Also, Jonah 3:10 which says “And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that He had said that He would do unto them; and he did it not.” Both of these verses speak of the Lord repenting of something, and can seem contrary to verses that teach that God is unchanging. However, close examination of these passages reveals that these are not truly indications that God is capable of changing. The key to these verses is the word “repent.” In the original language, the word that is translated as “repent” is the same in both verses. The word is the Hebrew expression of “to be sorry for.” Being sorry for something does not mean that a change has occurred, it simply means that there is regret for something having taken place.



Consider in Genesis 6:6, that “…it repented the LORD that He had made man on the earth.” This verse even goes on to say “…it grieved Him at His heart.” This verse comes right out and says that God had regret for creating man. However, obviously He did not reverse His decision; instead, through Noah, He allows man to continue to exist. You and I are living proof that God did not change His mind about creating man. Also, the context of this passage is a description of the sinful state man was living in, and it is man’s sinfulness that triggered God’s sorrow, not man’s existence. Consider what Jonah 3:10 says “…and God repented of the evil, that He said that He would do unto them, and He did it not.” Again, the same Hebrew word is used here, which expresses “to be sorry for.” Why was God sorry for what He had planned for the Ninevites? Because they had a change in heart, and as a result, changed their ways from disobedience to obedience.



Romans 3:23 teaches us that all men sin, and fall short of God’s standard. Romans 6:23 states that the consequence for this is death (spiritual and physical). So, the people of Nineveh were deserving of punishment. All of us face this same situation, as it is man’s choice to sin that separates us all from God. Man cannot hold God responsible for his own predicament. So it would be contrary to the character of God to not punish the Ninevites had they continued in sin. However, the people of Nineveh turned to obedience, and for that the Lord chose not to punish them as He had originally intended. Did the change on the part of the Ninevites obligate God to do what he did? Absolutely not! God cannot be placed in a position of obligation to man. God is good and righteous, and chose not to punish the Ninevites as a result of their change of heart. (By the way, God still offers salvation to all that turn to Him!) If anything, what this passage does is point to the fact that God does not change, because had the Lord not preserved the Ninevites, this would be contrary to the character of God.



What all this boils down to, is an examination of the grammar and context. The word that is translated “repent” or “repented” simply means “to be sorry for” and does not indicate a change, but simply a state of regret. Further, neither of these passages shows that a change in the character of God occurred, or that God did something contrary to His character.”



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Q. Does God change His mind or does he change the situation? When Moses prayed for the people and God did not destroy them, was he changing His mind or the situation.

(Submitted by: B. H.)

A. Two episodes particularly come into focus in the context of God about to destroy Israel: one, in Numbers 14: 11-20, concerning the Israelites rebellion that followed the spies' report. No doubt that God would have destroyed the Israelites, except Joshua's and Caleb's families, had Moses said, "go for it!" Fortunately for Israel, Moses was quite a merciful leader, and his entreaties made all the difference. The situation did not change, but God could be entreated and persuaded to relent on His purpose. It shows that God can be persuaded to change His mind, but, as there are no precedents in mankind's history, up to that time, it shows a unique, extraordinary example. It shows what kind of man Moses was in God's eyes! (Numbers 12:6-8).

The other memorable and dramatic episode, recorded in Numbers 16: 41-49, depicts the unbelievable folly of the Israelites, Moses and Aaron's intervention, and God relenting again after 14,700 people perished in that incredible rebellion. Here, again, Moses was the man who prompted God to change His devastating course!



There are conditions however where God will not change His purpose. Note the following referring to the end-time just ahead of us:

"For thus says the Lord: 'The whole land shall be desolate; Yet I will not make a full end. For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black, because I have spoken. I have purposed and will not relent .' " (Jer. 4: 27-28)

There were times in the past where God even forbade prayer or intercession for a group of people (in this case, Israel):

"therefore I will do to this house which is called by My name, in which you trust, and this place which I gave to you and your fathers, as I have done to Shiloh. And I will cast out of My sight, as I have cast out all your brethren -- the whole posterity of Ephraim. Therefore do not pray for this people, nor lift up a cry or prayer for them, nor make intercession to Me; for I will not hear you." (Jer. 7: 14-16)

There are other conditions upon which God plans to show His terrible power if iniquity persists to the end --- yet, if sin are repented of, God will also repent of His punishment. The case of Jonah is an exemplary one:

"Now the word of the Lord came to Jonah the second time, saying, 'Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and preach to it the message that I will tell you.' So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh, according to the word of the Lord. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, a three-day journey in extent. And Jonah began to enter the city on the first day walk. Then he cried out and said, 'Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!'

"So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest to the least of them. The word came to the king of Nineveh; and he arose from his throne and lay aside his robe, covered himself with sackcloth and sat in ashes. And caused it to proclaim and publish throughout Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, 'Let neither man nor beast, herd or flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water. But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let everyone turn from his evil way and from his violence that is in his hands. Who can tell if God will not relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish?'

"Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it." (Jonah 3: 1-10)

God's overall approach is further illustrated in Ezekiel 18: 21-23:

"But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, and keeps all my statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

"None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live.

"Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? says the Lord God, and not that he should turn from his ways and live?"

Thank you for your question and for your interest in God's truth. It this day and age, how good it would be if people would study and heed these Scriptures! It behooves us to act upon them in view of the terrible times prophesied just a head of us.


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