My Thoughts for Kokokolo....

[10forty2]

Here are my thoughts as they pertain to some of the questions that Koko posed in another post...

1. How do we have free will?

In short God gives us free will as a gift. The best comparison that I can make is this: God can force us to love/worship/praise/serve Him, but what good is that? If we truly don’t want to, then what meaning does it have? It’s difficult to understand, but think about if you had the power to make someone love and serve you against their will. It means nothing if they really don’t want to. But, on the other hand, if they come up to you, of their own free will, and WANT to love and serve you, it really means something and is desirable. God WANTS us to love Him out of our own free will and desires to have a relationship with us in which He nurtures us and loves us the way a parent, friend, brother and counselor/mentor would. But it must be because we want to receive His gift, and that’s the whole idea of free will. It’s our choice.

2. How is Gods judgment really "fair"

How is it not fair? He has given us every opportunity to be saved. He gave us His only Son, a manifestation of Himself, as a sacrifice to ensure that we could be in Heaven with Him for eternity. We must remember, however, that He is in charge of everything and that if we choose not to accept His gift, and choose not to love Him then He doesn’t desire to have us in His Heaven. Again, it’s our choice.

3. How the trinity makes sense.

This is very difficult to understand, but probably the best explanation that I have ever heard is this. God, is God. He has always been and will always be God and the master of everything there is. When He created us, He desired to have a complete relationship with us, not just as a master/slave in which we do what He says. In order for Him to fully know, understand and love His creation, He had to be able to experience all sides of the human being. As God the Father, He issues rules/discipline and is able to know what it is like to be a Daddy and have a child to love Him. As God the Son, he is able to know what it’s like to receive a Daddy’s love and discipline and to be scared as a human when unknown things happen. As God the Holy Spirit, he is able to experience the love of a friend or a brother who counsels and guides another. God truly is all three in the Holy Trinity, and is able to fully love us and understand us as a result.

4 How Jesus dying really makes us able to go to heaven, I mean God could have just made it so by snapping his fingers right?

God can do anything just by snapping His fingers. He is omnipotent (all-powerful) and nothing is impossible for Him. He chose to make the blood sacrifice of His Son as the final atonement for all the sins of the world, then and now. Sin does not happen without punishment. Punishment, or atonement, cannot be complete without some sort of sacrifice. In the days before Jesus came, people atoned for their sins by some sort of sacrifice. God manifested Himself as the Son and gave Himself as the ultimate sacrifice or atonement for all of our sins. He loves us so much that He punished Himself and made it easy for us to be forgiven for our sins.

5. What it means to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.

I think this means turning your back on God and being against Him or to completely refuse to acknowledge Him.

6. What is heaven like?

Heaven is the most wonderful place that we could ever imagine. The worst part of Heaven is far, far better than anything we can imagine. It is beyond the ultimate vacation. It is beyond the ultimate worship service. Simply being in God’s direct presence forever is the epitome of what Heaven is.

7. What does it mean to be the bride of Christ?

It means to be adorned as a bride would be waiting for her groom. A bride is anxious and anticipates the coming of her groom. She makes herself as beautiful as she can and puts no one else above her groom. We should do the same for Christ. He will return and we will reap the rewards He has promised.

8. What is Hell like?

Total and utter separation from God. Nothing worse could possibly happen. For those who think that Satan has anything good for them, they are wrong. Satan has no desire except to hurt God. The only reason Satan recruits people so hard is so that he can hurt God. Satan has but one agenda and again, that is to hurt God. God also has the desire that not one of us should have to suffer the final judgment and be sent to Hell for eternity, but He has also forewarned us that if we do not accept His gift, Hell is our ultimate destination. All of us must remember that everyone will live for eternity. Some will be rewarded in Heaven and the rest will tortured be in Hell.

9. Can people in other religions go to heaven, what about religions that believe in Jesus, like Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses?

You have to remember that even Satan believes in Jesus and he knows exactly who Jesus is. I highly doubt that Satan’s gonna be there in Heaven. I cannot speak to the specific points of the referenced faiths, but suffice it to say that if a person has not accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior, he will not be going to Heaven. Remember that part about, “No man cometh unto the Father except by me.”

10. What exactly does God allow in the bedroom?

Between a husband and a wife, married in the eyes of God, all things are acceptable until such a point that it causes the two to take their focus off of God.

11. What exactly happens to people that never knew of Jesus, or died too young to know.

I think that God takes care of those who have not had the opportunity to hear of Him, including those who are too young to know.

[kokokolo]

heh bro, my point was that I dont need to focus on these things because these minute details are not what really matter as to how I am to live my life... But seeing as im here /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*cracks his knuckles
responses

1. Indeed we have free will, the part I think is beyond our understanding is HOW.If our choices are all based on how our bodies develop, and our experiences then ...

Here is a quote from an evolutionist biologist, J.B.S. Haldane:

‘If my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain, I have no reason to suppose my beliefs are true … and hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms.’

Im just saying i think it is beyond my our comprehension, like I said before I think that we are not just a cumulation of chemical, and electrical reactions. we also have a soul/spirit (same thing?). that affects us.

2. How is god fair? well the thing is some peoplehave heard of jesus, but follow islam for instance, or evolution or nothing etc.They just dont KNOW

3. the trinity, god can be everywhere at once, and he is... This actually isnt hard 2 picture anymore

4. good answer bro
"Sin does not happen without punishment." I tend to think sin is intrinsicly punishing, without added punishment from god, just a random thought...

5..bleh
6. what is heaven like... yeah heaven is awesome, but I still dont know what to possible picture here /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

7.
8. still, hell is without god, whats that like /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif I actually heard somewhere that hell is probably much like our life on earth, where people just choose, to deny god, and thus chose to live a godless life forever. Kinda like if you just kept living trying to make yourself happy on earth, being greedy, and lustful forever and making yourself miserable forever, sound kinda like hell ...

9.what about other religions? this one is very interesting to me because I was raised a mormon, so I know a lot of mormons.The thing that is really wierd about mormonism is that it is almost always focused on the book of mormon, which when I was reading it, I couldnt find hardly any teachings... and they are allways talking about joseph smith. and it has all these rules. And when I was a Mormon, I honestly just hated going to church, where as now I look forward to church every week.

10. what does god allow in the bedroom? Answer anything between a man and a wife? Probably, but to be honest, ive seen different responses on different christian sites.

/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif bring on the responses, this thread is kinda awesome cuz its all the questions in one !

again, Ive actually read the bible studies here on most of these topics, but my point was that we cant know everything. and furthermore, more information about god is not neccessarily a better relationship with christ.

[10forty2]

You're exactly right, we can't know everything. I don't profess to know everything, but I believe we will on the day we arrive at our final destination. I believe that no matter where we end up, the questions wil be answered in an instant. Those in Hell will know and will have ultimate regret over the answers. Those in Heaven will further rejoice over the revelation to all their inquiries.

But once we get to Heaven, we have to remember also that those questions will not matter anymore. The Promise will have been fulfilled and we will have claimed our Crowns of Glory. What more will it matter if we understand. We are with God. Everything else pales in comparison.

As for Heaven, just continue to picture the age old description of streets paved with gold. That's far better than we could ever hope to achieve an guess what... Heaven's much better than that!!

We might not be completely on the same sheet of music Koko, but we're in the same songbook! God loves us both equally!!

Any others care to chime in?

[Leafy Green Vegetables]

I consider Gods grace as just, but I think you can also see God as unfair, since he loves those who do wicked things just as much as those who do not.

[kokokolo]

not after death though right?

[l0stsheep]

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not after death though right?

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Death or life has no matter for God's love. He doesn't send people to hell beacause he HATES them. I think he loves them no matter what. But can someone go to Heaven, be in the presence of perfection, if they are, themselves, imperfect?

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I consider Gods grace as just, but I think you can also see God as unfair, since he loves those who do wicked things just as much as those who do not.

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God as man, God on a cross, God dying for you and me will never make sense. But, God doesn't ask us to make sense of Him, he asks us to come to Him. His grace is a type that challenges logic. Giving life to those who are sentenced to death? That grace makes no sense.
But then again, grace doesn't have to be logical. If it did, it wouldn't be grace. /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Leafy Green Vegetables]

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Giving life to those who are sentenced to death? That grace makes no sense.


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So true! Same can be said for taking loved ones from this earth too early. Ultimatley it will make sense one day.

[kokokolo]

indeed, letting them be without god after death, is just an extension of thier free will, as they chose to be without god in life.

that arnold pic is hilarious.

[Adam Knowlden]

Those are great responses 10forty2!

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my point was that I dont need to focus on these things because these minute details are not what really matter as to how I am to live my life... But seeing as im here

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My issue is its good to discuss these things as long as they are edifying your faith. If they are stumbling blocks to one's faith then there is a problem.

If you are a Christian, then you believe the bible no ifs ands or buts. You believe it is the Word of God and even though you may not understand the answer to a question, this does not shake your faith in the fact the bible is God's Word. If you question if the bible is God's Word that is a whole different mindset. You believe the Word and just want to be edified, nothing wrong with that. That's what the entire ministry of apologetics is based on!

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Indeed we have free will, the part I think is beyond our understanding is HOW.

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The easiest answer is that we are made in the image of God. God has free will, so therefore we have this attribute as well.

You have to understand that when Adam and Eve were created they were made in the image of God, or they had the same nature as God. No they were not gods, but they had the same nature. For example, each member of the God head has a perfect relationship with one another, to the point that they are actually one God!

This is the same way a husband and wife is described.

<font color="red">22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
</font>

Adam and Eve had a perfect relationship before the curse. Their relationship was also effortless, they didn't have to "work" at being married.

However, the curse changed everything!

<font color="red"> 16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. </font>

To break this down quickly, now they would have to work at their relationship. As a result of the curse, the man's natural tendency would be to be a dominating dictator in the relationship and the woman's natural desire would be to rebel against the man's authority.

So basically, when man was created he was created in the image of God. Just like God man had free will, perfect relationship, eternal life, excellent health, total holiness, and an abundance of blessings.

After the curse we lost all of that.

Since the curse we are not born with God's nature. We do not have eternal life, perfect relationship, free will, or blessings!

Let me explain that.

First we clearly do not have eternal life.

<font color="red"> Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, </font>

We do not naturally have perfect relationships. Gossip, backstabbing, argueing, strife, all works of the flesh!

<font color="blue">19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. </font>

We are under the curse, not blessings (this is deeper than this because I don't want to delve into commone grace (Matthew 5) at this point, it will detract from the overall concep I'm demonstrating)

<font color="green"> Galatians 3:10
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." </font>

And finally we are not born with have free will in the truest sense

<font color="green"> John 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. </font>

<font color="red"> Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? </font>

We are all born slaves to sin. We really don't have free will until the Son sets us free from sin.

Sin curses us, destorys our relationships, kills our bodies, and ruins our communion with God!

Now the awesome news is, Christ has undone all of that!

We are no longer slaves of sin and have free will, true free will to serve God.

<font color="blue">31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

35And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
</font>

Before we knew Christ, we did not have free will. We were deceived by satan to believe that you can only have free will when you are not under God's authority.

That is a lie, the exact same thing he used to trick Eve!

Its the same lie

When we are under sin, we are really in bondage.

Christ breaks that yoke!

<font color="blue"> 5Hungry and thirsty, their soul fainted in them.

6Then they cried unto the LORD in their trouble, and he delivered them out of their distresses.

7And he led them forth by the right way, that they might go to a city of habitation.

8Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men!

9For he satisfieth the longing soul, and filleth the hungry soul with goodness.

10Such as sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, being bound in affliction and iron;

11Because they rebelled against the words of God, and contemned the counsel of the most High:

12Therefore he brought down their heart with labour; they fell down, and there was none to help.

13Then they cried unto the LORD in their trouble, and he saved them out of their distresses.

14He brought them out of darkness and the shadow of death, and brake their bands in sunder.
</font>

<font color="brown"> Isaiah 11
1And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

3And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

4But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

5And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
</font>

If we are born in sin and have no free will, how can we know to accept Christ?

The answer is first, simply Grace! God calls us to Himself!

<font color="blue">Jesus answered. 44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. 46No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father </font>

Now, how does God call us?

Seed my friend, seed!

Study Matthew 13 for more.

And planting seed, or spreading this gospel is OUR responsiblity, that is very very clear.

God has chosen to leave this responsibility to us, to spread the gospel.

So in our natural selves, we are slaves, and have no free will. We are "set free" ( or granted our God given nature of free Will) by Christ!

Now we still live in these corrupted bodies. That is where the struggle is for Christians. That is why we will still die.

Our hope is the resurrection when the last part of the curse, death, will be broken. We will no longer be bound to these flesh craved bodies, raveged by the sin, but will have glorified bodies like Christ.

We will not be Christ, but we will have the complete nature of God as was given to man at creation. Pefect soul, spirit, AND physical body.

Does that make sense?

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still, hell is without god, whats that like

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There will be absolutely no love at all. Not a shred. Imagine the worst, most cut throat region of the world, a place like Sudan's Darfour Region or a crime-ridden slum in US where everyone is out for themselves and could care less about you. Even in all that despair there is still hope. In hell it will be worse than any set of bad life circumstances you can even imagine, but compounded on that there will be NO HOPE and NO LOVE. None whatsoever. That will be miserable.

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9.what about other religions? this one is very interesting to me because I was raised a mormon, so I know a lot of mormons.The thing that is really wierd about mormonism is that it is almost always focused on the book of mormon, which when I was reading it, I couldnt find hardly any teachings... and they are allways talking about joseph smith. and it has all these rules. And when I was a Mormon, I honestly just hated going to church, where as now I look forward to church every week.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well the bible is clear there will be many false doctrines in the later days. Those adhering to false doctrines, in other words deny the gospel, can not enter heaven. You can only enter heaven by the blood of Christ. Period.

Religion, etc, will make no difference on Judgement day. Only what you did with Christ, when the seed of the gospel was put in your heart.

If you've never heard of Christ, obviously there will be a Judgement for you anyway. I wrote a huge thread on this in the bible studies because I believe Paul discussed this.

If we believe the bible we can rest assured God is holy, just and a perfect Judge the bible states that numerous times so we can trust that these folks will be judged perfectly.

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Probably, but to be honest, ive seen different responses on different christian sites.

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I agree with 10forty2 on this one. There is no real restrictions I have ever seen. Now I think abusing each other or weird taboo stuff is off limits because the bible is clear we are to be gentle and loving to each other, but I don't think two people who are saved and filled with the Spirit are going to really be into extreme stuff like that anyway.

If you want to know more study commentary on the Song of Solomon. The book cotains graphic descriptions of intimate love making between a husband and wife.

[kokokolo]

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We are under the curse, not blessings (this is deeper than this because I don't want to delve into commone grace (Matthew 5) at this point, it will detract from the overall concep I'm demonstrating)

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is there a bible study on this? the whole under grace/under law thing I dont get under curse/under blessings

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If you want to know more study commentary on the Song of Solomon. The book cotains graphic descriptions of intimate love making between a husband and wife.


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I will /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif do you suggest a certain commentary ?
Ive seen there are a bunch of different bible commentary series.

[jlands]

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But can someone go to Heaven, be in the presence of perfection, if they are, themselves, imperfect?

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Well I guess I will never go to heaven with that logic.

[kokokolo]

lol, yeah I think someone said that wrong. Nobody is perfect. God doesnt even want people to be perfect. He just wants people that love him.