The Book of Judas

[kwood34]

Did anyone else read this article in TIME magazine? It was really interesting. The recently discovered book of Judas is going to be released soon. They wouldn't give away much, but they basically say it paints Judas in a completely different light. They basically say that he wasn't evil, he was necessary. Someone had to betray Jesus.

I was wondering what others thought of this recent discovery.

[psaturn]

Haven't read it.

Yes it was necessary that Jesus had to die for our sins.

No, he was not an evil person. Remember, Judas Iscariot was ONE of the 12 apostles !!! Chosen by Jesus to follow Him and His teaching and to witness what He did for others and all the miracles !!! Imagine that ! Being with the Son of God in person !

Judas Iscariot was like the treasurer of the group. He handled the money.

Judas Iscariot sold Jesus to the Temple priests for 30 pieces of silver. Judas Iscariot did NOT think Jesus would be sent to death. Once he realized he was going to be sent to death, he threw the ill gotten 30 pieces of silver back at the priests and he hung himself, so ridden with guilt for bringing to death his closest best friend, who never hurt anyone, who followed the Father in everyway, who never sinned and knew no sin...no wonder his guilt was so great he could not live anymore...

[kokokolo]

sounds interesting, so are we gonna be able to get it, or read it on the net somewhere ?

[Adam Knowlden]

Thanks for the post bro, but whatever that article is its probably nonsense.

I'm getting tired of all these "new gospels" and "new revelations" we keep hearing about. Davinci code, etc. They're all deceptions.

Hi PSaturn, I have to disagree about Judas, the man was a thief, jealous of Jesus, and not even close to being a good guy.



<font color="blue"> 4Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,

5Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?

6This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.
</font>

I'm wondering about your theory that Judas had no idea Jesus would be killed. I read many times that the fact the Pharisees and Herodians wanted to kill Him was public knowledge.

Moreover, he walked with Christ during his eartly ministry, in his inner circle...and yet betrayed him, talk about the lowest of people.

The bible seems to strongly indicate in many many places that the Pharisees were not hiding the fact they wanted to kill him and would give money to those who helped.

<font color="red"> 6And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.

7But Jesus withdrew himself with his disciples to the sea: and a great multitude from Galilee followed him, and from Judaea,
</font>

<font color="blue"> 8"But Rabbi," they said, "a short while ago the Jews tried to stone you, and yet you are going back there?"

9Jesus answered, "Are there not twelve hours of daylight? A man who walks by day will not stumble, for he sees by this world's light. 10It is when he walks by night that he stumbles, for he has no light."

11After he had said this, he went on to tell them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up."

12His disciples replied, "Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better." 13Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.

14So then he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead, 15and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him."

16Then Thomas (called Didymus) said to the rest of the disciples, "Let us also go, that we may die with him."
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<font color="brown">11Then the Jews sought him at the feast, and said, Where is he?

12And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, He is a good man: others said, Nay; but he deceiveth the people.

13Howbeit no man spake openly of him for fear of the Jews.

</font>

<font color="#666666"> 25Then said some of them of Jerusalem, Is not this he, whom they seek to kill?

26But, lo, he speaketh boldly, and they say nothing unto him. Do the rulers know indeed that this is the very Christ?
</font>

<font color="red"> 53So from that day on they plotted to take his life.

54Therefore Jesus no longer moved about publicly among the Jews. Instead he withdrew to a region near the desert, to a village called Ephraim, where he stayed with his disciples.

55When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, many went up from the country to Jerusalem for their ceremonial cleansing before the Passover. 56They kept looking for Jesus, and as they stood in the temple area they asked one another, "What do you think? Isn't he coming to the Feast at all?" 57But the chief priests and Pharisees had given orders that if anyone found out where Jesus was, he should report it so that they might arrest him.
</font>

<font color="brown"> 10And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

11And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

12How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

13Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.

14Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.

15But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;

</font>

It seems to me the disciples knew that full well that the Pharisees wanted to kill their Master.

<font color="red"> 14Then one of the Twelve—the one called Judas Iscariot—went to the chief priests 15and asked, "What are you willing to give me if I hand him over to you?" So they counted out for him thirty silver coins. 16From then on Judas watched for an opportunity to hand him over. </font>

[ QUOTE ]
Once he realized he was going to be sent to death, he threw the ill gotten 30 pieces of silver back at the priests and he hung himself, so ridden with guilt for bringing to death his closest best friend, who never hurt anyone, who followed the Father in everyway, who never sinned and knew no sin...no wonder his guilt was so great he could not live anymore...

[/ QUOTE ]

Judas was predicted by David,

<font color="red"> “Let his habitation be made desolate, and let no man dwell therein; and, his office let another take” (1:20). </font>

The prophecies referenced are taken from Psalm 69 and 109, which do not seem to feel sorry for what Judas did.

<font color="green">1Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise;

2For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.

3They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.

4For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer.

5And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.

6Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.

7When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.

8Let his days be few; and let another take his office.

9Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.

10Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.

11Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour.

12Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.

13Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.

14Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.

15Let them be before the LORD continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.

16Because that he remembered not to shew mercy, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that he might even slay the broken in heart.

17As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him: as he delighted not in blessing, so let it be far from him.

18As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones.

19Let it be unto him as the garment which covereth him, and for a girdle wherewith he is girded continually.

20Let this be the reward of mine adversaries from the LORD, and of them that speak evil against my soul.

</font>

If this is describing Judas, which I believe it is from the direct coorelation in Acts, Judas may have walked with Christ but he was far from a good guy. He was a deceiver.

"Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil?" (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.) John6v70. The Greek word for 'devil' and 'deceiver' is the same.

Needless to say Christ knew all along.

Basically, I think he killed himself because he was possessed,

<font color="green">Satan entered into him. John13v27 </font>

<font color="blue">28Let them curse, but bless thou: when they arise, let them be ashamed; but let thy servant rejoice.

29Let mine adversaries be clothed with shame, and let them cover themselves with their own confusion, as with a mantle.
</font>

I'm sure he felt some type of remorse, but he knew full well what he was doing beforehand and was the only one Christ declared unclean when He washed the disciples feet.

Also God did not create Judas to betray Jesus, this happened because this was the choice he made.

<font color="red"> "God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth He any man" </font>

If there had been no Judas, the Sacrifice of the Lamb of God would have happened anyway. God's plan of salvation for all of humanity did not depend upon a singular, corrupt man who chose to make himself unworthy of that salvation. As the Scriptures plainly say, eleven of the apostles "endured temptation" and "shall receive the crown of life," while one was "drawn away of his own lust," a choice that "bringeth forth death," eternal death. That's why the Savior said of him, "woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It had been good for that man if he had not been born."

<font color="green"> 20Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none.

21They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.

22Let their table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap.

23Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not; and make their loins continually to shake.

24Pour out thine indignation upon them, and let thy wrathful anger take hold of them.

25Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents.

26For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded.

27Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness.

28Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.
</font>

[psaturn]

Old School,

I based the thinking that he many not have that idea that Jesus would be condemned to death on this passage:

Matthew 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayeth him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. 5And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.


Of course it is NOT a doctrine, but one way to maybe explain that he did not know what he was doing.

Yes, you are right that Satan took possesion of Judas Iscariot.

Judas Iscariot was responsible for his own action and the fact that he let Satan take over him and his body.

[l0stsheep]

I think, Satan was one of the Highest of Angels before he became jealous of God. Judas was, indeed, a chosen disciple. So, true, he was chosen by Jesus, and I'm sure he was a faithful follower. But it still came to the point to where he wanted to betray his Lord, and his friend.

[psaturn]

Yes,

Remember Peter also betrayed His LORD, denying three times before others and even cursing.

That was right after Peter said He would be willing to die with Him.

Other apostles and disciples also fled away except for John the Apostle, who did go before Jesus at the cross with Jesus' mother, Mary.

[Adam Knowlden]

Interesting points fellas. Thanks for clarifying PSaturn, I will also add my thoughts a little later, but I was wondering if you guys would address this question too?

If Judas had not committed suicide and do you think he could have asked for forgiveness and remained a disciple?

[psaturn]

Old School,

That is a tough one, that probably many theologians spent countless hours debating.

Going back what Jesus said, the only sin that was unforgivable was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

So then, one would have to determine if what Judas Iscariot did was a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit or not.

I am glad God is the judge and not me!

[kokokolo]

"blasphemy against the Holy Spirit." interesting that noone really knows what that means ...

NOUN:
pl. blas·phe·mies

1.
1. A contemptuous or profane act, utterance, or writing concerning God or a sacred entity.
2. The act of claiming for oneself the attributes and rights of God.
2. An irreverent or impious act, attitude, or utterance in regard to something considered inviolable or sacrosanct.

I still dont think the statemenr makes sense. Most I think take that to mean "denying god even unto death" Im not sure how they get that from "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit." taken the phrase at face value, I may have commited blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. /forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[XenoWang]

Koko, don't take this the wrong way, but you seem to worry and dwell on matters so much, you lose focus of what's important. There's no point in worrying about things that you admittedly don't even have a totally firm grasp of. Many debate what "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" truly means, but the general concensus is that it is the sin of unbelief. Obviously, you cannot accept Christ's grace, forgiveness, and salvation if you deny God in the very first place!

In short, stop worrying yourself silly and concentrate on what's really important /forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[kokokolo]

[ QUOTE ]
In short, stop worrying yourself silly and concentrate on what's really important

[/ QUOTE ]


heh, good point brotha !

kinda like how I debate how we have free will, even though I allready know we have free will...

Ive actually been thinking about that a little. ( the concentrating on whats important part )
and I realised that there are a lot of things about god that we simply cant fully understand.

1. how we have free will
2. how is gods judgement really "fair"
3. how the trinity makes sense
4 how jesus dying really makes us able to go to heaven, I mean god could have just made it so by snapping his fingers right?
5. what it means to blasphemy against the holy ghost
6. what is heaven like,
7. what does it mean to be the bride of christ
8. what is hell like
9. can people in other religions go to heaven, what about religions that believe in jesus, like mormons and jehovas witness
10. what exactly does god allow in the bedroom
11. what exactly happens to people that never knew of jesus, or died too young to know


and you know what? None of these questions really make a difference as to how I should live my life and what my purpose is. :&gt;

Heck some of the questions, the answer is simply that our minds can not grasp them.

your right though man, whats important is that Jesus died for us, and god loves me. And I need to go spread the news !

[psaturn]

Sounds like you got it ! Kokokolo !!!

I don't know everything either!

But I will live according to what I know!