How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

[Venom]

So I was talking to this bodybuilder the other day, and he essentially told me that education was a waste, and that all that mattered to him was bodybuilding; and he essentially refuses to listen to anyone unless they are Ronnie Coleman and on 50 different drugs.

It made me think of the multitude of scriptures in the bible that discusses how the foolish hate knowledge. It is honestly vexing to me.

Hosea 4:6-11

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

One thing that I find frustrating in many circles is the lack of appreciation for knowledge. It is so anti-biblical! Even in the church, many dismiss education as a after thought.

What are your guys experiences/frustrations with people like this? And what are your thoughts on the importance of knowledge?

[TForce]

I would have to take lots and lots of time to be very selective about which particular passage I would utilize to emphasize my opinion on this subject as well as any other, and I choose to freely discuss it in my own words, saving me valuable time. Other than that, I would have to say that knowledge is essential, just like glutamine.

[dalvare1]

people fear what they do not know, therefore education is the key to progress both mentally and physically. thats how i feel. the person you are talking about is probably ignorant to the world around him.

[War5475]

Well it depends on wether your talking about just knowledge or experianced knowledge. I have found that inexperiance can be just as dangerous as ignorance. One must know the limit of there abilitys in order to be effective. How you obtain the knowledge is unimportant. What is important is if you can properly use the knowledge you have collected.

I find lots of people on both sides of the spectrum. Those who never try to learn and hate knowledge. Those who have it but are icapable of applying it. Like your body building friend there. And some guys who graduates college who passed all the tests and made the grade but has no ability to put it into play in the real world.

Some people should just try to figure out what there best suited to in life. I have meet so many people who just do not have the ability to work in certain settings. Even though they have meet all the standards. So one could argue they dont have true knowledge. Maybe they have just simply masterd the schooling system.

Any way just some odd thoughts.

[l0stsheep]

What really frustrates me are people who are close minded. I don't get this.

I think for any intellectual person, you have to be open-minded. You have to be willing to be proved wrong. But people would hate to be proved wrong, so they just shut off, and won't listen to you. Life is all about growing, and maturing, learning the things you never knew. And sometimes that means what you did know will be proved all wrong. But what could be more exciting than having you world shaken up, and being knocked on your butt because your are shown something that totally changes your view on things!

Unfortunately, I have found a lot of christians to be close-minded. As if the Bible tells you to believe what you believe, and THAT'S IT. They aren't open to differen't interpretations, or ideas, but hold fast(and sometimes blindingly) to what they believe. And what can be more exciting than having God knock you on your butt, and show you that what you thought was right, isn't at all! This has happened to me a few times. I remember one specifically. When I was younger, I put the cart before the horse, so to speak. I MADE myself be a nice person, I made myself do all the right things. Finally one day, just came over me and showed me that, "Kyle, I'm sorry, but you are WRONG." And I was glad to hear it! He showed me that I was to do all those things THROUGH a love that He gave me for my brothers. He showed me that goodness, kindness, and good deeds are a byproducts of a love I have through Him. What is better than God proving you wrong! heh.

And about knowledge, I totally agree, it' unfortunate when people just shut off, and don't want to hear something that might be knew, or challenging.

[Adam Knowlden]

I will add more to this later Venom, great post.

The entire book of Proverbs is instructing the future king of Israel. If that isn't an education, I don't know what is!

First off the advantage to education is that what takes one person 25 years of experience to learn, a educator can teach a student in a matter of hours.

For example in Proverbs Solomon teaching his sons all the wisdom he had learned during his reign. Imagine the wealth of experience he was handing down!

For instance, a lot of people have this notion that we are smarter now than man was say a few hundred years ago. That is incorrect, what we have is accumlated knowlege that was preserved and handed down.

[War5475]

First off the advantage to education is that what takes one person 25 years of experience to learn, a educator can teach a student in a matter of hours.



Im sorry but i have to disagree with you on this. You may be able to explain the theory. Give somone the basic principle behind it. And possibly give them the insite to how it is done. However you could never impart 25 years of knowledge in 12 and half years of education much less a couple of hours.


Experiance beats knowledge every time. If were speaking of a relative subject.

[tarheelsykes]

[ QUOTE ]
First off the advantage to education is that what takes one person 25 years of experience to learn, a educator can teach a student in a matter of hours.



Im sorry but i have to disagree with you on this. You may be able to explain the theory. Give somone the basic principle behind it. And possibly give them the insite to how it is done. However you could never impart 25 years of knowledge in 12 and half years of education much less a couple of hours.


Experiance beats knowledge every time. If were speaking of a relative subject.

[/ QUOTE ]

while you may be right in some areas, you are definitely wrong in others. take this website. Everything we discuss on this website has been researched for the last 10-45 years, things we all know on here about muscle, nutrition, etc, are things scientists did not know not that long ago. You may not know the whole story, but you definitely can know the end result. and to be able to pass that along is great.

[Adam Knowlden]

[ QUOTE ]
Im sorry but i have to disagree with you on this. You may be able to explain the theory. Give somone the basic principle behind it. And possibly give them the insite to how it is done. However you could never impart 25 years of knowledge in 12 and half years of education much less a couple of hours.


Experiance beats knowledge every time. If were speaking of a relative subject.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi War,

Tar summed up what I was going to state. I am not saying I can learn 30 years of knowledge in a few hours. I can learn skills much more rapidly through proper training, then just being thrown into a situation with no education.

For example I am working on my MBA.

I am developing both a micro and macro understanding of the business experience in a disciplined format. Literally what has taken my professors 30 years of trial and error is being taught to me in a few hours of class per week (along with my study time). Especially the whole-brained thinking skills the university promotes.

I can tell you, you get from your education what you put into it. If you just do enough to get by, then yes your education isn't going to be very applicable in the real world. Mainly because your work ehtic is going to be transferable. So if you "just slid by" in school, your work ethic in the work place isn't going to be any better.

But if you strive to really put your education to work I can guarntee a education is going to be the most valuable asset you can offer an employer. For example there is no way I could write JHR without the research and writing skills I acquired from putting hours of time into my education. Even though I am a business major, I can apply those skills to any area of research. Education increases skill diversity and an ability to rapidly learn and adjust to changing environments.

[Venom]

Thanks for your great feedback, guys!

I think one point old school was trying to get to was the importance of excepting correction from others. He was not at all saying that experience is not absolutely vital.

It is well documented that trial and error learning is a very slow and painful process. What a coach can do is explode a players pace on the learning curve, by catching their mistakes, and telling them how to correct them.

Due to specificity, what method is prescribed to optimize performance in a school setting is apprenticeship. People need to apply their knowledge, but they also need to have an instructor their to explode them a long the learning curve. Apprenticeship allows the best of both worlds.

[War5475]

Maybe it works like that in a highly scientific establishe rules enviroment. But it dosnt work that way in profession that is more art, philosopy, science. I can see what your saying in a science enviroment. But for instance in a subject like pshyco acoustics. There has not been enough study or built up information to pass on everything you need to be sucsessful, or effective. This is where experiance is vital. Because so much is theory that some people belive what they read even though it dosnt translate to the real world. Actual experianceses and experiments are what help you learn what does work in the real world rather than what some book says. I dont have a problem with established science or books at all. Just when people make it work on paper but dont bother to see if it works in the real world. "basicaly not applying all the variables."

For instance i would rather higher an audio engineer who has experiance rather than one who dosnt.

But if one has a little experiance i would rather higher the newbie cause he hasnt learned all the bad habbits yet! /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[jeffrobodean]

I don't think the argument is experience versus education. I think the point was to find out in your walk - do you hear people stating education isn't important, or perhaps, vice versa.
I work for the department of Ohio that oversees all funding and scholarships to all of Ohio's and Pennsylvania's higher education institutions. In my experience, my BA is not much better than a GED according to my coworkers. I think it is the environment. In my Fire Department, it is just the opposite - I'm a nerdy college boy to some extent. So, in my paid career, I'm surrounded by people with PhD's and MBA's at the minimum, but in my non-paid honorable "profession" I'm surrounded by guys with street smarts, honor and the willingness to die saving my butt - all with high school educations only.
I could not put a level of importance on either one, but it illustrates that in many cases, your physical environment dictates perception.

[Adam Knowlden]

Hi War,

[ QUOTE ]
Because so much is theory that some people belive what they read even though it dosnt translate to the real world Actual experianceses and experiments are what help you learn what does work in the real world rather than what some book says.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well in defense of education, nearly 70% of it is practical application, not just straight reading. Its working in teams on projects, labs, solving complex problems.

Very applicable.

These programs are designed by to make graduates very cutting edge and marketable in their respective fields.

But I'm not going to aruge about whether higher eduation is benefical or not, I think its speaks for itself.

Also this is getting off track. /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[War5475]

Well i was stateing that just because a professor says somthing or a curriculum teaches somthing its not allways correct.

This would only apply in newer fields where we dont have hundreds of years of knowledge to stand on.

Basicaly saying you cant give a blanket staement in either direction. /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

All this said I totally feel where your comeing from. I deal with hundreds of people every day from all walks of life and i do have to say there is a disapointing trend of shunning knowedge not only from shcools or colleges but from etiquette to behavioral patterns.

It has really taken a dive the past 10 to 15 years. It used to not be like this. /forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif I consider myself a lerned man and i try to be humble but the way most people are, act and speak I have to consider myself in the top 10 percent of the American public. And belive me thats not saying much. I wish i could say this was not tru but everyday i go to work it just proves its self over and over. /forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif

This will be a hole chapter in my book.... /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Adam Knowlden]

[ QUOTE ]
Well i was stateing that just because a professor says somthing or a curriculum teaches somthing its not allways correct.

This would only apply in newer fields where we dont have hundreds of years of knowledge to stand on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would also point out that an education is more than just studying about a respective field, but learning skills like critical analysis.

Education expands your mind as you are exposed to new ideas and concepts.

But good discussion War, I will address Venom's original points soon.

<font color="red"> my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.
</font>

[TForce]

[ QUOTE ]
How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that this was an excellent post.