tithing to whom?

[kokokolo]

I always thought the idea of giving 10% of your money to whatever church you go to didnt seem right... Because 1st off that money would probably just go to pay some people salary and add more to buildings. And second I am always skeptical of people that do gods work INSTEAD of having a normal job. ( pastors etc )

Dont get me wrong im not saying all pastors are bad, But I have heard fo some... anyway I found this on the website http://www.bible-truths.com

1.

"And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your TITHES, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks: And there ye shall eat before the Lord your God, and ye shall rejoice in all that ye put your hand unto, YE and YOUR HOUSEHOLDS, wherein the Lord thy God hath blessed thee" (Deut. 12:6-7).
2.

"And even though there were no Levites in Jacob’s day, nonetheless, there were "...the STRANGER, and the FATHERLESS, and the WIDOW, which are within thy gates, shall come, and SHALL EAT AND BE SATISFIED; that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thin hand which thou doest" (Deut. 14:29).

so would you agree that tithing is supposed to go to helping others in general, feeeding the hungry etc? not just givin to whatever church tells you to give them money, which im not sure if is even biblical


PS. If some of these thought have allready been addressed I will tell you the tithing link on the bible studies is a dead link.

[l0stsheep]

It's not up to us to decide whether a Pastor is doing good work, or not. It's up to us to give what God has told us to give.

But first, why do we give? Well, we give because He first gave to us. You see, you can't say there is anything you have that HE didn't first give to you. So, if you were to ever offer anyting back to God, well...Well, you would just be giving BACK what is already is. To not give the tithe, would be to say that we deserve everythig God has to give us. But to give back is to say, "God, I know that all I have is yours and is given to me." But also, to give back to the Church, and not expect ANYTHING in return is a way to say thanks.

It is Biblical to give money back to God. True, when we do anything to any of "Jesus' brethren we do it to Him." But there are aspects of ministry that we don't have access to. Such as, if we are full time workers, it would be difficult to support our family AND go on a missions trip to Africa. But that doesn't mean the need for ministry is less over there. So we give to the Church in hopes that they will disperse the money where it is needed. By giving to the church, and the church giving the money out, it extends our ministry.

And you bring up a good point that maybe a church isn't using its money correctly. But this isn't what we are to worry about. we just worry about giving to the church. Paul only did God's work. Was it wrong that he had people give him food and money? The same could be said for Peter, or GASP, for Jesus. You see, some people are called to do JUST God's work, selflessly and with total committment. While some people are called to support those who do God's work, so that through both people, God's work is getting done.

[kokokolo]

ok ok but biblically it isnt said specifically who are to give to?

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True, when we do anything to any of "Jesus' brethren we do it to Him."

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so I have a choice?
If I give 10% of my money's to the homeless that is tithing?
if I give to research cures for diseases?
Is it up to me to decide where I think the money would be most helpfull? /forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif
/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

also [ QUOTE ]
It's not up to us to decide whether a Pastor is doing good work, or not

[/ QUOTE ] Actually I can argue against this statement. I think I am capable of assesing whether their use of money is wise and for god. whether they are say spreading the word of god, or doing fancy additions to thier buildings...

[l0stsheep]

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ok ok but biblically it isnt said specifically who are to give to?

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True, when we do anything to any of "Jesus' brethren we do it to Him."

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so I have a choice?
If I give 10% of my money's to the homeless that is tithing?
if I give to research cures for diseases?
Is it up to me to decide where I think the money would be most helpfull? /forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif
/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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You are to give it to God. This is mainly done through His church because, like I said, there are ministries that might desperately need funding that 1) You don't know about 2) You can't get to. You should definitely do the good things on top of giving to God, but I feel that the tithe should go directly to the church so that it can to where it's needed.

[ QUOTE ]
also [ QUOTE ]
It's not up to us to decide whether a Pastor is doing good work, or not

[/ QUOTE ] Actually I can argue against this statement. I think I am capable of assesing whether their use of money is wise and for god. whether they are say spreading the word of god, or doing fancy additions to thier buildings...

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's great to use discernment about where you are giving your money. And if you feel like a church is just using it's money to build fancy buildings then...stop going to the church and take your money else where. You don't have to give your money to a specific church. And when I say that its not up to us to decide if a pastor is using the money correctly, I mean that if we find ourselves in a church that we like, I don't think our skepticism of the Pastor's ability to disperse the wealth should stop us from giving to the church. I also don't like it when people say where they want their money to go in a church. I understand people might have certain things that they like(e.g. children's ministry) but I think it should be up to the church to decide where it sends its money.

[War5475]

Ok when you give to the church. You are asked to give as you are prosperd.

Giving, as taught in the gospel. When one comes to the Covenant or Testament of Christ, one finds a total absence of teaching regarding tithing. Instead of tithing, one is to give into the treasury of the local church as "he has been prospered" (I Cor. 16: 2). Giving is to be based on first having given oneself to the Lord and in proportion to love (2 Cor. 8: 5, 8). There must be a willing mind, as purposed in heart, and cheerful and liberal (2 Cor. 8: 12; 9: 7; 6). Giving to the truly needy is also taught (Eph. 4: 28).

The subject of tithing, as observed, pertained to the Jews and the Law of Moses. That system or law has been "blotted out" and "nailed to the cross" (Col. 2: 14). The New Testament, Jesus' law and covenant, does not stipulate the amount to be given, but provides principles to guide the Christian in his giving. The gospel also contains the ultimate example of giving: The Father gave his Son and Jesus divested himself of heaven's glory and died on the cross (2 Cor. 8: 9). In urging giving we read, "Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift" (2 Cor. 9:15).

As far as how that money is spent. That is also part of your job. As a member of a church you should attend the budget mettings. They provide a detailed account of where the money goes and what it was used for. You should speak to the deacons and elders. About the ways you approve and if you disaprove of the way the money is spent. I assure you if you have a biblical reason for not spending money a certain way they are going to listin to you. If not go find a church that spends there money acording to scriptures. And yes churches support food programs clothing, housing, orphans, widows, all of the things Christ asked us to.

I hope this helps and if you have any other questions please ask.

[kokokolo]

I dont belong to a specific local church though...
Also I was thinking that even if I did that money may be able to help bring more people to god by say giving to answers in genesis ... just a thought. This brings another subject to my mind though, optimality ( not a word ?)of funds. That is, finding the best, most optimal use for the money your using. Shouldnt we always strive to find the BEST way to spend the money?

Also I see sometimes, I think people are just giving the ten percent, like as if theyv got to do it to get to heaven, in other words they arent happy about it, and wll covet with the rest of it. And I have also seen some sites that say biblically we dont need to pay tithing anymore, obviously really trying to avoid giving for their love of money :<

But arent we asked to give ourelves as a living sacrifice?
TheN I would say give as much as you can, to whoever most needs the money/what will change the most lives

[War5475]

One way if you dont belong to a particualar church yet. Would be to give to those types of organizations.

Even people in churches give to those organizations. But be honest dont you think If a group of Elders Who where elected becaues of thier honesty and adherance to the scriptures. Where deciding where your money needed to go, would have Gods best interest at heart. Also remember that people go daily to them in thier time of need. Where you may not allways be available. They are there all the time.

[shtanga]

Tithing was instituted before the law of Moses. Yes, it was included in the law, but started before the law. I believe the principle of the tithe has not changed. According to Malachi the tithe is to be brought into the store house so God can open up the floodgates of heaven in your life. I believe the local church is the new testament store house. You tithe ( 10% ) to the local store house ( church ) where you are fed. This is where the Lord will command a blessing. A charitable organization is not the place to pay your tithes. Tithes are paid, offerings are given. Supporting a charitable organization is a noble thing to do, but that would be considered an offering over and above the 10%. The job of the church is to go into all the world....that takes money and if people do not tithe to their church, the church suffers, therefore there is not adequate funds to go. The purpose of the 5 fold ministry is equip the body. If there is no bread in the storehouse to pay the salaries of the full time ministers, the church suffers and the work of God is hindered. If there is no supply in the storehouse, there will not be any funds for missionary work, to fix the A/C at the church building or pay the light bill.

You do not choose where you are going to give your money, you give where you are fed, a local church, not some person on TV. Once you give your tithe, you release it to the work of the Lord and do not try to control " your money", because it is no longer your money. People make the mistake of trying to say where they want "their money " to be spent, thus trying to control people through their money. This is equal to witchcraft - a spirit of control. In the new testament the money was laid at the apostles feet ( church leadership ) for them to dispense.

The New Testament says that we are to offer everything to the Lord, how can we say we have given everything if we can't honor the Lord with a tithe of our income.

On another note, all churches should have transparent accounting. Yes, there are some "bad" ministers, unfortunately, but they are few and far between. Most pastors serve the church with all they have and struggle to get by. A pastor should be blessed by the church ( through his salary that comes through the tithes ) just as much as anyone else in the church is blessed. There is a stereo type that pastors should not have anything, and if they do, people start accusing them of abusing the church money. I want my pastors and leaders to be blessed so they can focus on feeding the word to the congregation and not be burdened down with how they are going to feed and clothes their children. There are many scriptures that prove the pastor and leadership should be blessed......not riding in limousines and jet planes, but well provided for.

From my experience, the tithe is the first crossroads of faith that believers come into. When we fully tithe with a good heart, God blesses and adds to our lives, not only financially. As the old saying goes - 90 cents will go further than 1$ when you give 10 cents to the Lord.

[War5475]

You are asked to give as you are prosperd. (I Cor. 16: 2) So in many cases you give more than 10% Tithing is not in the new testament. But in many cases we will be expected to give more than 10%. If your income is 500,000 a year God is going to expect more than 10% or if your income is only 25,000 a year but you pay no real bills you are going to be expected to give more than 10%

[RobCannella]

lol, so why isnt War a mod yet?

[War5475]

Lol Im not quite up to par yet!... LOL im still in training. hehe

J/K


So how ya been Rob?

[kokokolo]

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lol, so why isnt War a mod yet?

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heh isnt war aweseome ?

[thirsty_shepard]

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You are asked to give as you are prosperd. (I Cor. 16: 2) So in many cases you give more than 10% Tithing is not in the new testament.

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Actually War, if follow the example of Christ in the New Testament you are to sell all your posessions and give it to the poor. This is why the rich young man couldn't follow Christ. Luke 18:22

Jesus found the man to be worthy of being his disciple with following the ten commandments, but found the one thing that most of us struggle with. Jesus found that the man was more in love with his money.

God doesn't ask us to give because He wants us to be poor and down trodden. He asks us to give back to Him what He has so freely allowed us to have back as a sign of our trust and love for Him.

"where your money lies, there is your god"

[War5475]

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You are asked to give as you are prosperd. (I Cor. 16: 2) So in many cases you give more than 10% Tithing is not in the new testament.

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Actually War, if follow the example of Christ in the New Testament you are to sell all your posessions and give it to the poor. This is why the rich young man couldn't follow Christ. Luke 18:22

Jesus found the man to be worthy of being his disciple with following the ten commandments, but found the one thing that most of us struggle with. Jesus found that the man was more in love with his money.

God doesn't ask us to give because He wants us to be poor and down trodden. He asks us to give back to Him what He has so freely allowed us to have back as a sign of our trust and love for Him.

"where your money lies, there is your god"

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Ok could you clarify a little more. We seem to have said the same thing two differnt ways. I dont see where my statement differs from what you just said.

[thirsty_shepard]

I really wasn't saying that what you were saying was different, I was clarifying. There are a lot of people use the "new testament tythe" as a defense as to not tythe as much. If they want to go back to the Old Testament giving example, the temple had to tell people to stop giving.

Sorry, I was just trying to support you bro. You're solid. I've been reading what you say in other remarks

[RobCannella]

Been good as of late. Was missing Church for a while and hadnt been tithing to be honest cause I wasnt going. In my youth I was dead broke msot of the time now I give my 10% or better and view it as a testimate of my faith. I prefer my tithe goes to youth ministries and my church accepts that and makes sure my monies are used there.


I think,...
lol

[shtanga]

one thing to remember when interpreting the bible is you have to take the whole counsel of the word of God into account. after looking at the new and old testament we can come to the conclusion that tithing is still a biblical principle. No where did Jesus say, I cancel the 10% tithe, therefore just give as you " feel led".

Matt 23:23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices-mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law-justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. NIV

Jesus never cancelled out the tithe.

Another fact about the tithe. It was said that sometimes you will be required to give more. A tithe can not be more than 10% and can not be less than 10%. If some one gives 15% of their income, they give a 10% tithe and an offering in the amount of 5%.

Of course no one HAS to tithe, but I see it as a biblical principle and a matter of faith and the heart. I started tihing 15 years ago and have been so blessed in my life. I would not even think about not tihing. Malachi says that to not tithe is to rob God. I take that seriously. Something I heard years ago that has never left my value system is that if you do not tithe and buy something else with the money, you have just made a purchase with stolen money.

Blessings to all.

[War5475]

Yes thats what i love about the english language. you can say somthing simple and people still wont understand you.

Thats exactly the point i was trying to make was that yes you give 10 % but you cant just stop there. If God gives you more then you need to give back more after all you are just a stuart of what is given to you. /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

but thanks for helping clarify that. One day i WILL master the English language. /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[War5475]

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No where did Jesus say, I cancel the 10% tithe, therefore just give as you " feel led".

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No where did jesus say, I cancel the 10% tithe. The word merley says this.

2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.


Now are we to think that the word is contradicting itself? No of course not, because here we see that the old law was blotted out.


Col. 2: 12-17

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


So here we see that you are to give as prosperd witch could be more than 10%.



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Matt 23:23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices-mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law-justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. NIV

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Of course Christ said this before our sins and the law was nailed to the cross. So the pharasees where under the old law.


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Jesus never cancelled out the tithe.

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Just adressing this statement see response above.


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Another fact about the tithe. It was said that sometimes you will be required to give more. A tithe can not be more than 10% and can not be less than 10%. If some one gives 15% of their income, they give a 10% tithe and an offering in the amount of 5%.

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Can you please expand on this offering i have never seen it in the new testament myself. However there were offerings of crops and beasts. Under the old law. But I would like to learn more about these offerings....

Thanks....

[War5475]

i need to learn how to highlinght stuff...

[jeffrobodean]

I used to be skeptical of the offerings before I became a true believer in my heart. I would pay more attention to the media and the publicity surrounding "corrupt" ministers. It sure does harden ones heart....

The Church of Christ I belong to does not focus the service around the offerings and before we pass around the plate, we pray that everyone will tithe with a glad heart and be happy to. On our offering envelopes, there are several choices of where you would like your offering to go. We have a council of Deacons and Elders who ensure that the money goes where it is specified and specify where the other money goes - as it is needed. They determine our minister's salary, etc. They pay the bills. It is very organized, and our incomes and outcomes are published in the bulletin and monthly newsletter.
I am sure that I probably do not give 10%, but I give as much as I can. I find that even when I am stretched and think that I need that money elsewhere, God provides and I somehow get by. It is amazing how that works.
Oh yes, we also have a separate missions faith offering. Once a year, we each pledge how much we will give to our missions. We pick missions each year, some are the same, some are new and decide what percentage of the total will go to each mission. This is separate from the regular offering.