westside training and the specificity hypothesis.

[ryancostill]

I would like to know the mods thoughts on this. Louie simmons has developed the westside training method for powerlifters and has had a huge success rate with the method.

It involves Powerlifters not actually squatting, benching, or deadlifting all that much but actually primarily performing variants of the lifts instead (ie box squats, floor press, deadlifts from rack etc etc.)

I was curious as to whether the mods thought this westside technique was a violation of the specificty hypothesis? And if so how do they explain the westside club outstanding success rate? Or are the lift variants so closely biomechanically similar to the actual lifts that training transfer occurs?

[Grim001]

Elite powerlifters who have already reached a steep asymptote on their squat/dead/bench motor programs may benefit more from the generality of very similar lifts than practicing the actual lift itself. That's my take on it. It shouldn't be optimal for anyone but elite powerlifters though.

[ryancostill]

But thats the thing. the westside program is often prescribed and used for everyone interested in increasing their powerlifting performance.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[ryancostill]

Thanks for the insight Joe. So essentially would you ever recommend the westside program and if so at what phase in the athletes development would you recommend it?

Also, if it is not an optimal method for powerlifting development how do you explain the west-side gym phenomenal success rate in the realm of powerlifting? (better anabolics than every one else in the game perhaps?....)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[ryancostill]

cool, thanks for your viewpoint.

[EzCurl]

Then Joe could you please post your ideal strength routine, because everything i see on this site is geared more toward hypertrophy, and yes i have searched and each time you say you dont promote westside yet you dont tell us what you would rather use for a strength routine.

[littleamazon]

All the routines here are geared towards hypertrophy AND strenght..EZ.

Amazon

[eduatty]

[ QUOTE ]
everything i see on this site is geared more toward hypertrophy

[/ QUOTE ]

It's called abcbodybuilding! LoL Hypertrophy/hyperplasia is the main focus.

From http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/aprilquestionsandanswers.php

[ QUOTE ]
Question:
1. A person at my gym told me that power lifting is the same thing as bodybuilding. He also told me that I spend too much time on working small muscles like biceps. What is your opinion on this subject?

. . .

Answer: . . .

You ask a very valid question. I will address your first question by comparing one elite athlete from the sport of power lifting to one elite athlete in the sport of bodybuilding.

The first competitor I will quote is the great Shawn Ray. He is considered by many to be the greatest bodybuilder to every grace the stage! Here is a quote from him in regards to one rep max benching.

" The Bench Press is the most overrated exercise there is. The biggest mistake people make in this sport is getting hung up on how much they can bench. That's where injuries are caused and frankly how much you can max does not pertain to this sport. You might be able to bench allot, but when you take your shirt off you'd better have the pecs! " - Shawn Ray

So far this is completely contradictory to power lifting. Shawn Ray is saying that he could care less about his one rep max. His main concern is how big his muscles are, not primarily the weight he is lifting. Power lifting is a sport where how much you can lift is literally everything!

The second athlete I will quote is Louie Simons. He is not only a great power lifter, but also a great power lifting instructor! He foresees the training of some of the best strength athletes in the world. Here is a quote from him on what his opinion on muscle growth is:

" Things like slow repetitions and negatives just make you sore! They will increase size, but they do nothing to increase strength, so we don't do them! We at Westside don't concern ourselves with muscle growth!

Lets break down the quotes here.

1. Shawn Ray doesn't care about one rep maxes - Power lifting however is centered around one rep maxes!

2. Louie Simons doesn't care about muscle growth - Bodybuilding is centered around muscle growth!

In other words bodybuilding is a sport of symmetry and muscularity and power lifting is a sport of one rep maxes and purely compound lifts. We concentrate heavily on negatives and heavily incorporate isolation exercises. Power lifters couldn't give a **** about those things. For instance, why would a power lifter care about pre-fatigue? And yet it is one of the most used shocking principles in our sport. In fact half of the year during contest season we usually keep our reps between 6-15 for fear of injury, during contest season for the power lifter, the training is the complete opposite!

[/ QUOTE ]

[Venom]

[ QUOTE ]
Then Joe could you please post your ideal strength routine, because everything i see on this site is geared more toward hypertrophy, and yes i have searched and each time you say you dont promote westside yet you dont tell us what you would rather use for a strength routine.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you read the current issue of JHR on specificity, you will see numerous practical applicatons to sports, which can be directly used for a powerlifters routine.

[President Wilson]

Its also important to 'tease' out relationships.

For example, Westside uses a daily undulated periodization type of approach, and they claim it almost as if they invented it, which they did not. So, the DUP aspect is not really Westside at all. Because DUP is not used to a great extent yet, it may be that the variation provided from scaling down traditional periodization, to the daily training level has provided users their success, and caused them to avoid accomidation.

The point is, there are many factors to a program, such as scheduling etc. They still heavily practice the criterion task however, and from a scientific standpoint, this would be where their maximum gains would come. It is important to see that when someone has success in a program and some unscientific methods are included, that it does not mean that those unscientific methods were actually contributing mainly to the success of those who have excelled in such as program.

[eduatty]

Great points, Prez.