Why did Noah curse Canaan? [Archive]

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FJ0

01-27-2005, 08:18 PM

So I decided to read through Genesis cuz I haven't done that in a while and there's a whole lot in there I'm not really understanding. Seems to me like God in the Old Testament is sooo different from God in the New Testament.

Anyway, so reading Genesis 9:20-25 did'nt make much sense to me.

 20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. 22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father's nakedness and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father's nakedness. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father's nakedness.

24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said,
"Cursed be Canaan!
The lowest of slaves
will he be to his brothers." 

Seemed to me like Noah made the bigger mistake their in getting drunk and falling asleep naked. Also didn't seem like Ham did a whole lot wrong - just accidentally stumbled across Noah in that state.

Can anyone shed some light on why Noah would curse Canaan like this?

Thanks a lot.

Venom

01-27-2005, 08:28 PM

Great question! I answered this in one of my studies. Give me a minute.

Venom

01-27-2005, 08:30 PM

A Systematic Refutation of the Racist Paradigm Part 2—Annihilation of Pseudo Biblical Arguments (http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=928609)
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This belief system has promoted racism for many ages.

Now let’s analyze this verse. Ham had four sons: Cush, Mizraim, Phut, and Canaan. But interestingly enough, only Canaan is mentioned here. That is most likely because this event had only to do with Canaan, and also, Canaan had vial descendents, including the people of Sodom and Gomorrah!

It is postulated that Noah saw the same sin nature in Ham’s son Canaan, and this is why he proclaimed a curse on him rather than Ham. Moreover, it appears that Ham was caught in the act of sexual perversion. And Canaan’s descendents—the Sodomites—certainly picked up this wicked trait.

I sincerely have no idea how these people come up with these fallacious arguments. I see no where in here where skin color is even mentioned. It is truly an absurd claim. The message I would take from this, however, is that you need to teach your children to walk holy lives, and lead by example. Canaan obviously picked up right where his father Ham left off, and his descendents after him did the same. A sad predicament indeed, but a reminder to us all that we must bring our children up with a strong foundation in God’s word.

Proverbs 22:6
6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Lastly, Rahab was a descendent of Ham, and in the line to Christ! This will be discussed further on.

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psaturn

01-28-2005, 04:00 AM

Remember the 10 Commandments? Thou Shalt honor thy father and thy mother ?

I know that the 10 Commandments came way after that happened. But it seems like there was an expectation that honoring your parents was an expected trait in God's people. What the 10 Commandments did was to put in writing what was known and written on the heart of God's people.

FJO, you made a statement that the God of OT seem to be different that the God of NT. Of course that is not true. God is the same yesterday today and forever. It is us human beings that change.

The story that you cited, on Noah and Ham, remember, there was no God involved in that specific story. Noah as a father to Ham pronounced curse on Ham because the way Ham treated Noah. Fathers have power to bless or curse children. They still do today. If a parent keep saying to their children " you won't amount to anything !!" every day... I guess those kids won't amount much. Unless God delivers them from that curse ! Jesus saves and delivers from all curses including your parents' curses.

I heard of Jewish traditions that said Ham actually did something unmentionable to Noah in his drunken state. Therefore explaining the severity of that curse.

FJ0

01-28-2005, 10:07 AM

Thanks a lot guys.

psaturn my bad on the OT comment - it wasn't directed at that passage but more in general. I'm not saying I don't believe it's the same God - I'm just confused as to God being an angry God in the OT and with all the war and whatnot, against things in the NT such as Romans 12 saying "live at peace with everyone".

Adam Knowlden

01-28-2005, 05:41 PM

Excellent question.

Ham was the second son of Noah (Genesis 5:32, 6:10, 7:13, 9:18, 22, Genesis 10:1, 20 and 1 Chronicles 1:8). Ham, then, is seen as the ancestor of the Egyptians, as well as the people in Africa, Arabia, and Canaan.

After the Flood, Noah began cultivating vineyards, and on one occasion exposed himself while he was drunk (Genesis 9:20-24). Ham saw his father lying naked and related the incident to Shem and Japheth, who covered Noah up discreetly. When Noah awoke and learned what Ham had done, he cursed Ham’s son Canaan, saying his brothers (Cush, Mizraim, and Put) and Shem and Japheth would rule over him. But if Ham is the one referred to in 9:24 as offending Noah, why should the curse fall on his son Canaan? The most likely answer is that it is not Ham who is being referred to. The expression is “his youngest son,” whereas Ham is repeatedly seen as the second of the brothers, not the youngest (5:32, 6:10, 7:13, 9:18 and 10:1). Instead, Noah’s curse on “his youngest son” refers to Canaan, and to some base deed which was not recorded in the Bible. “Son” used for “grandson” was common in ancient times, and it seems to have been used here in this way since Canaan is the “youngest” of the grandsons. The curse, then, as the text clearly says, is on Canaan rather than Ham. Canaan, and his offspring, were to be subject to Japheth and Shem.

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Thanks a lot guys.

psaturn my bad on the OT comment - it wasn't directed at that passage but more in general. I'm not saying I don't believe it's the same God - I'm just confused as to God being an angry God in the OT and with all the war and whatnot, against things in the NT such as Romans 12 saying "live at peace with everyone".

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First it was not in God's original plan to destory the nations before Israel,


Exodus 23:28
And I will send hornets before thee, which shall drive out the Hivite, the Canaanite, and the Hittite, from before thee.


God was going to use swams of hornets to give the Promised land to Israel.

God also said the fear of what He did to Egypt, and how Israel destroyed King Og, whose bed was 18ft long, would literally cause the those living in high-walled cities to vacate and flee at the presence of the army of Israel:

 23For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.

24Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.

25And ye shall serve the LORD your God, and he shall bless thy bread, and thy water; and I will take sickness away from the midst of thee.

26There shall nothing cast their young, nor be barren, in thy land: the number of thy days I will fulfil.

27I will send my fear before thee, and will destroy all the people to whom thou shalt come, and I will make all thine enemies turn their backs unto thee.

28And I will send hornets before thee, which shall drive out the Hivite, the Canaanite, and the Hittite, from before thee.

29I will not drive them out from before thee in one year; lest the land become desolate, and the beast of the field multiply against thee.

30By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land.

31And I will set thy bounds from the Red sea even unto the sea of the Philistines, and from the desert unto the river: for I will deliver the inhabitants of the land into your hand; and thou shalt drive them out before thee.



Instead of trusting God and doing His plan, Israel chose to wonder around in the wilderness for 40 years mumbling and complaining.

Moreover, remember what Rahab the harlot said,

 Before the spies lay down for the night, she went up on the roof 9 and said to them, "I know that the LORD has given this land to you and that a great fear of you has fallen on us, so that all who live in this country are melting in fear because of you. 10 We have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea for you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to Sihon and Og, the two kings of the Amorites east of the Jordan, whom you completely destroyed. [c] 11 When we heard of it, our hearts melted and everyone's courage failed because of you, for the LORD your God is God in heaven above and on the earth below. 

Although Israel failed, God still kept His oath to Abaraham.

Jesus said,

 16“So the last will be first, and the first will be last.” 

The Gentiles where the last to hear about Christ, but the first to recieve Him. The nation of Israel was the first to hear of Christ, but will be the last to accept Him.

Moreover, spiritual warfare was conducted in the physcial realm in the time of Israel. All the battles of Israel teach us how to conduct spiritual warfare today.

1 Chronicles 21
David Numbers the Fighting Men
1 Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel. 

Now because of the New Covenant, we have the authority of Christ to rebuke the devil.

 28But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 

 Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

psaturn

01-28-2005, 08:00 PM

Good Points Joe and Adam !

Adam Knowlden

01-28-2005, 10:18 PM

Furthermore, no display of God's Wrath in either the Old Testament or the Wrath of God in the Revelation of Jesus Christ come anywhere near the Wrath God administerd to His own Son on the Cross. Even all the acts of God's Holy Wrath combined match the Punishment He put upon His own Son at Calvary.

Furthermore the verse you conveyed is a command for men, not God. God is allowed to render Holy Judgment, we are not.

Romans 12:19
Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” [ Deut. 32:35] says the Lord.


God has also ordained in His Word, the ministery of men to execute His Wrath, ie law enforcement, the miliary, etc.

 Romans 13For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.