First Amendment rights not extended to Christians?

[RichW]

Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:16 PM

Subject: FW: PA Christians face 47 years for reading Bible in public.
PENNSYLVANIA CHRISTIANS FACE 47 YEARS IN PRISON FOR READING THE BIBLE IN PUBLIC
Philadelphia charges Christians with hate crimes, inciting a riot, and using a deadly weapon.
Bill O'Reilly reported on the situation on Fox News Channel.

Dear Brandon,
What we have been saying has now happened. You cannot quote what the Bible has to say about homosexuality in public or you will be charged with a "hate crime." Philadelphia is only the beginning. If we fail to take a stand here, this "crime" will soon be applied across America.

In the 27 years of this ministry, I have never witnessed a more outrageous miscarriage of justice than what is happening in Philadelphia. Four Christians are facing up to 47-years in prison and $90,000 in fines for preaching the Gospel on a public sidewalk, a right fully protected by the First Amendment.

On October 10, 2004, the four Christians were arrested in Philadelphia. They are part of Repent America. Along with founder Michael Marcavage, members of Repent America-with police approval--were preaching near Outfest, a homosexual event, handing out Gospel literature and carrying banners with Biblical messages.

When they tried to speak, they were surrounded by a group of radical homosexual activists dubbed the Pink Angels. A videotape of the incident shows the Pink Angels interfering with the Christians' movement on the street, holding up large pink symbols of angels to cover up the Christians' messages and blowing high pitched whistles to drown out their preaching.

Rather than arrest the homosexual activists and allow the Christians to exercise their First Amendment rights, the Philadelphia police arrested and jailed the Christians!

They were charged with eight crimes, including three felonies: possession of instruments of crime (a bullhorn), ethnic intimidation (saying that homosexuality is a sin), and inciting a riot (reading from the Bible some passages relating to homosexuality) despite the fact that no riot occurred.

[JTiger]

I don't think this means that just reading the Bible in public is a crime. I'm sure this will be overturned on appeal.

[Big MatT]

Honestly though, is preaching on the badness of homosexualoty just outside of a homosexual event the proper thing to do? Don't get me wrong, I am against homosexuality personally but would you want some anti-Christian group to set up outside of your Church? Though the sentance they got is ridiculous to say the least...I could understand if the police made them move and said "don't do that anymore" but 47 years is absurd.

[RichW]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't get me wrong, I am against homosexuality personally but would you want some anti-Christian group to set up outside of your Church?

[/ QUOTE ]
That happens a lot. There are people who protest the President because of his faith. There are people who protest outside the Southern Baptist convention and other national denomonational gatherings by churches. When the same sex marriage amendment was up for the vote here homosexual groups were picketing in front of Atlanta churches with pastors that spoke out against same sex marriages. Further, almost every aspect or refrence to Chritianity has been or is in the process of trying to be removed from public display or discussion.

[Big MatT]

It happens I know, but really, do those things actually help people or just stir up trouble?

[sta63bmx]

It gets people thinking and shocks them out of their comfort zone, at least. You never know what effect your actions may have, or what kind of seed may be planted in someone's heart. Besides, if it's good for me to be exposed to homosexuality in school, left-wing propaganda, and revisionist history in the name of becoming a "well-rounded person", then a few Bible verses shouted through a bullhorn ain't gonna kill anybody!

I've seen that clip. The gay activists are trying to block this guy and his group from walking down a public sidewalk. Then they were surrounding them and shouting, blowing whistles, holding up huge pieces of styrofoam to try and stop anyone from hearing them, etc. It was ridiculous.

The guy was doing nothing to incite a riot, not trying to stir up a bunch of people to beat the gays or anything, he was just saying his piece, albeit loudly. Last I checked it was a free country!

And again, the double standard is what's really criminal. Why is it ok for the gay activists to block a public sidewalk? The clip was very aggravating.

[KrYptic.x]

Freedom of speech / religon is always one of the top 3 reasons people cite on why america is so great. I think too ofthen though, people don't really grasp entirely what that means. Sure, it means you can go out and voice your protest over things you disagree with, and you won't be silenced. But I think that people are sometimes ignorant to the other side of it.

Some love to defend their right to free speech and disagree, but can't handle it when somone is openly disagreeing with something they are passionate about. If you want the freedom of speech, you best be prepared to hear someone openly disagree with something you care passionate about. You can't simply turn a deaf ear to someone who disagrees with you, it circumvents the entire Amendment.

[psaturn]

I was in San Francisco 's Candlestick Park when Larry Lea has his concert of prayers (it was more than a decade ago). Guess who was at the front of the gate protesting ? Gays and pagans.

So, the gays don't like to be quoted Scriptures ? Then the Christians don't like to be exposed to gay lifestyle either ! (which is all around under the guise of tolerance !)

[Ultra Man]

hey big matt, when i saw that pick in your avatar i almost choked on a peice of chicken laughing /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[JTiger]

[ QUOTE ]
Freedom of speech / religon is always one of the top 3 reasons people cite on why america is so great. I think too ofthen though, people don't really grasp entirely what that means. Sure, it means you can go out and voice your protest over things you disagree with, and you won't be silenced. But I think that people are sometimes ignorant to the other side of it.

Some love to defend their right to free speech and disagree, but can't handle it when somone is openly disagreeing with something they are passionate about. If you want the freedom of speech, you best be prepared to hear someone openly disagree with something you care passionate about. You can't simply turn a deaf ear to someone who disagrees with you, it circumvents the entire Amendment.

[/ QUOTE ]


I think that is the post of the day. Somebody finally gets it. Only if all the other groups would understand. Dare to dream.

[sta63bmx]

I figure that since I have to listen to hippies, vegans, gay people, liberals, smith machine users, Cardinals fans, and cricket players on this campus all the time, it's about time these people had to listen to some right-wing hatemongers. /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[JTiger]

Smith machine users, the lowest of the low.

[sta63bmx]

Yes, I apologize to all of the gay people who were offended by that comparison.

Extra Edit: If you're vegan, more power to ya. But F*** PETA and the kinds of nuts who write wacko articles like that one we had on here the other day that a-folov crapped all over like he'd just eaten burritos stuffed with ex-lax and cooking oil. Those are the kind of people I am ripping on, not people who have made a choice to be vegan, but realize that the rest of the world doesn't necessarily want to be that way, nor should they have to be that way.

[William Ustav]

LOL, JP - I just realized something /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif You should be here in Sweden, and just sit and talk to people here all the time. You would get so much ventilation over here, that you'd need a vacation from politics and vegans and smith-machine users /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I can see you have some inner agressions too /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif Have you ever thought about ultimate fighting??? /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[sta63bmx]

[ QUOTE ]
LOL, JP - I just realized something /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif You should be here in Sweden, and just sit and talk to people here all the time. You would get so much ventilation over here, that you'd need a vacation from politics and vegans and smith-machine users /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif[.quote]

Yes, the more socialist nature of some European countries would probably drive me crazy. That's what makes no sense! How does so much awesome, angry, violent heavy metal come from a country like Finland? *scratching head*

[ QUOTE ]
I can see you have some inner agressions too /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif Have you ever thought about ultimate fighting??? /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO! It would be funny watching me get the crap kicked out of myself, I suppose.

[William Ustav]

[ QUOTE ]

Yes, the more socialist nature of some European countries would probably drive me crazy. That's what makes no sense! How does so much awesome, angry, violent heavy metal come from a country like Finland? *scratching head*

[/ QUOTE ]

Finland... don't get me started... at least we swedes occasionally beat the heck out of them in hockey /forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ QUOTE ]


LMAO! It would be funny watching me get the crap kicked out of myself, I suppose.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or, you could do what I do - when you see a guy you don't like (or he just looked at you weirdly), imagine yourself when you're delivering a clothesline from hell on him, and then putting him down when he gets up with a chokeslam. Leg drop, body slam, and then finish off with a tombstone piledriver. Gets all the agressions out of me...

Hmm... or maybe it just builds up the agression???

[Jrdouglas24]

For some reason, I don't think we're getting the full story here. While I believe that Christians have every right to free speech, I also have mixed feeling on the subject because I live in Topeka Ks. Just do a google search on Topeka, Kansas with the key word Fred Phelps and you'll understand why. He got national attention a few years back and that just spirred them on even more.

[psaturn]

JR got a point.

There is a term called Hate Speech.

Telling someone that they are in sin and evil and all that...may be classified as a hate speech. Hate speech itself is protected by the Constitution under the Free Speech but inciting riot and all that is not.

Reasons that gays and pagans can demonstrate opposition against Christians in a public meetings like I went to Concert of Prayers with Larry Lea and not get even a slap is because we are not going to react with violent reactions and riot. However, gays being shown Scriptures that forbid their practices can react violently and therefore riots could result.

I agree with JR that the methodology employed by Fred Phelps really hurt more than help the spread of the Gospel of love but instead he is spreading more hatred and further separation by a group of people from hearing the Gospel. Why hear the Gospels when they are condemned already in the Bible ?

[B.A.M.]

Here's more uptodate info on the situation

Judge: anti-gay activists permitted to demonstrate at gay events
Associated Press ^ | Jan. 22, 2005


PHILADELPHIA - Four members of a conservative Christian group may resume picketing gay-themed events in Philadelphia after a judge lifted a restriction that kept them away.

Common Pleas Court Judge Pamela Dembe called the restriction an unreasonable restraint on free speech.

"We cannot restrict people's right to speak or to be near those who might not wish to hear them into the future," Dembe said Friday.

Dembe overturned a ruling by Municipal Court Judge William A. Meehan against the demonstrators, who are affiliated with a local group called Repent America and who say their opposition to homosexuality is based on the Bible. Meehan had ordered the group to stay at least 100 feet away from any "homosexual event."

The defendants' attorney, C. Scott Shields, told Dembe that Meehan's order had effectively "muzzled" the his clients, "and that's unconstitutional as a prior restraint."

The activists still face a variety of charges, including felonies, in connection with their protest last fall at Outfest, a street festival for gays and lesbians in downtown Philadelphia.

However, after viewing a 22-minute videotape of the events leading to the defendants' arrest, Dembe indicated she might dismiss the entire case.

"It all amounted to annoyance on both sides, but it did not amount to criminal behavior that I can see," Dembe said.

Cathie Abookire, a spokeswoman for District Attorney Lynne M. Abraham, said the prosecution would proceed with the case. A pretrial hearing is scheduled next month, at which Dembe is to hear arguments on dismissing the charges.

The activists, led by Repent America founder Michael Marcavage of Lansdowne, say they are being prosecuted for voicing their religious belief that homosexuality is a sin.

Assistant District Attorney Charles Ehrlich said the criminal charges were based on the defendants' conduct, not what they said.

"Mr. Marcavage's conduct is to try to incite a crowd to cause a public disturbance ... whether it's from the Bible or somewhere else," Ehrlich said

[psaturn]

Thank you B.A.M. for posting the result. I can breathe better for the right of free speech has been restored for the time being. Whew !