^^^^Biblical Insight Concerning Relationships, Love, and Intimacy-^^^^Part One, D is released! [Archive]

View Full Version : ^^^^Biblical Insight Concerning Relationships, Love, and Intimacy-^^^^Part One, D is released!

Adam Knowlden

09-17-2004, 04:14 PM

Biblical Insight Concerning Relationships, Love, and Intimacy

Part One, A: The Foundation

In this series we are going to discuss something that is on every single person's mind...dating and relationships.

It would only make sense that since God created this instituion He would have the best advice on not only making it work, but also creating a quality relationship that produces fruit.

We must first establish that the relationship must be built on Christ as the foundation. Without that foundation, we are essentially on our own, and God can not bless the relationship in the ways He wants to.

Matthew 7:24 (AMP)

24So everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts upon them [obeying them] will be like a [sensible (prudent, practical, wise) man who built his house upon the rock.
25And the rain fell and the floods came and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock.
26And everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not do them will be like a stupid (foolish) man who built his house upon the sand.
27And the rain fell and the floods came and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell--and great and complete was the fall of it.
28When Jesus had finished these sayings [the Sermon on the Mount], the crowds were astonished and overwhelmed with bewildered wonder at His teaching,
29For He was teaching as One Who had [and was] authority, and not as [did] the scribes. 

God has established several spiritual laws that govern the universe.

For example, the principle of reaping and sowing, the tenets of receiving, the rule of perseverance, the law of faith and the law of fear, the establishment of generational blessings and cursing and the list goes on and on as one examines and studies the scriptures.

However, it is the above quotation of Jesus that sets every other spiritual law into motion. In this Jesus established the most primary biblical spiritual law--the Law of Foundation.

Matthew 12:30 (AMP)

30He who is not with Me [definitely on My side] is against Me, and he who does not [definitely] gather with Me and for My side scatters.


Whether it concerns our finances, our goals, our education, our diet, our careers, our families, our associations, and even our intimate relationships, there are only two options on which these facets of life can be built; The Rock or the sand.

While there are many critical areas that can be discussed regarding this spiritual principle, the area of love and relationships will be examined regarding this law.

Chief Characteristic of the Two Foundations:

“…Behold, the fear of the LORD, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding (Job 28:28).” 

What personally determines if you are “happy” or “in a good mood”? Does it depend if the weather is nice? Does it depend whether or not you receive that raise? Or if you save for months to finally get that new set of rims for your car? What about if you press that extra 10 lbs. on your bench? Or buy that new pair of shoes you’ve been dreaming about?

Whatever, it is that defines “happiness” for you, the truth of the matter is, emotional happiness arises through circumstances and can just as easily be shattered by counter- circumstances.

In the same mannerism, sand shifts depending on the circumstances of the weather.

But a rock does not shift. It is firmly planted. Even when the wind arises and rains pour down, it is fixed and established. Just like when the trials of life come, not matter their harshness, with the Rock as your foundation there is a joy and peace in your life that is unmovable.

 Psalm 112 ( KJV)
6 Surely he shall not be moved for ever: the righteous shall be in everlasting remembrance.
7 He shall not be afraid of evil tidings: his heart is fixed, trusting in the LORD.
8 His heart is established, he shall not be afraid, until he see his desire upon his enemies.


In this illustration Jesus makes it clear that He is the Rock by which every area of our life is to be built on. But what exactly is the sand Jesus is describing?

William Ustav

09-17-2004, 05:01 PM

Awesome post, Adam! /forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Venom

09-17-2004, 05:15 PM

Awesome! /forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

bennyhanna1

09-17-2004, 07:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Awesome post, Adam! /forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome

President Wilson

09-17-2004, 07:38 PM

Indeed,

Christ's foundation is the most important aspect of a relationship. There is no doubt about it. A very wise dissertation Old School.

LegendaryWatcher

09-18-2004, 01:12 AM

Totally sweet!! I dig the rock analogy.

Adam Knowlden

09-24-2004, 01:51 AM

Part One B, The foundation,

http://lordwarmingtonstudio.com/painting%20images/big%20photos/Roaring_over_Zion.jpg

Ps. 125:1-2: "They that trust in the Lord shall be as Mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever. As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the Lord is round about his people from henceforth even for ever." 

Relationships that are built on Christ have a sure foundation. They cannot be removed, as they are built on the Rock, the Lord Jesus.

First we must recognize that every relationship, whether it is casual acquaintances, close friends, enemies, bosses, or co-workers, is founded on a spirit of some type.

Intimate relationships go deeper than this, to a level that is either bless-able by God or not bless-able. That will be discussed in part 3.

When Christ spoke of sand and the Rock (Himself) He was establishing this principle of spiritual foundation

Let us first discuss intimate relationships that are built on sand. What the different types of sand are, and how they lead to destruction.

There are many types of sand two people could build a relationship on, however the premise of the sand is established on the three spirits the world has to offer:

 1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.


The above verse literally categorizes every type of sin in existence. They also categorize different types of spirits. The spirit of lust, the spirit of pride and the spirit of greed.

 Numbers 5:14
And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled: 

1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. 

 1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 

God says to test the spirits. What type of spirit do you want your marriage or relationship built on? The Spirit of Christ or a spirit of the world? Which one is sure to stand the high tides of life? Jesus compares the world to sand and Himself as the rock! Only a fool would pick sand, yet many do so with their actions on a daily basis, as though there will be no consequences.

 Proverbs 1
1 The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;
2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
3 To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
4 To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.


In our case we will describe different types of foundational bases "sand" relationships are built on.

1. Lust- Quicksand

http://www.bryceimages.hpg.ig.com.br/quicksand.jpg

Being attracted to a potential mate is definitely important and in itself is not a sin. God designed us this way and describes both men and women in the bible who are "handsome" or "beautiful". However beauty often becomes the primary focus of a relationship, for those who are not building on the Rock.

 Proverbs 6:25
Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids. 

From the get go it is easy to see why this is foolish. The man who has mastered controlling lust will honestly be able to avoid 99.9% of potentially disastrous relationships.

Without ones hormones controlling their mind, they can think much more rationally and ask deeper questions such as "do we share the same values", "what type of baggage is this girl/guy carrying", "will this girl/guy provide for my needs and be there for me when I am heavy in spirit".

 Proverbs 31:30
Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised. 

Moreover, those who have not committed themselves to sexual purity until marriage, will most definitely fall into fornication, and are thus settling for the relationship to be built upon the quick sand of lust.

Fornication is any type of sexual activity outside of the confines of marriage,

 1 Corinthians 6:13
Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 

This is why we see millions of abortions, millions of fatherless homes, children out of wedlock and many other societal problems, such as STD's and emotional depression among teens.

God's commandments in this area are not a rule to make life tough, but rather for our own good.

Think on this. If abstinence until marriage were kept across the board in this country, STD's and broken homes would be virtually nonexistent in one generation. Any nation that would obey God in this area would be completely unstoppable. The bible is clear the family is the foundational to everything. But that is another topic.

Here is an excellent article on the topic of dealing with fornication:

[ QUOTE ]
When I became a Christian, I wanted to rip Matthew 5:27-32 out of the bible. I wanted to believe that maybe Jesus did not mean what he'd said about sex, so I tried to reinterpret his words. Nowadays, he would be teaching something else -- times have changed during the last two thousand years, right? And we know a lot more about sex nowadays, right? And we developed responsibility, right? We can deal with sex in the right way now, right? So why not just do it?

Know what? I learned that all these ideas are lies.

I've been with my girlfriend for about a year now. She was a Christian from the start. We did not sleep together, but other than that we did about everything one could imagine a woman and a man would do in a bed except for sexual intercourse.

Four weeks ago -- shortly after I became a Christian -- God hit us over our heads with the bible and made clear to us that it was no joke when Jesus said that we have to gouge it out like an eye. And what's more, he did not only give us a rule to obey. He made very clear to us WHY it is so important to obey this law!

Satan is not creative. He does not invent new things. But what he does all the time is try to change the rules God gave us with his great gifts. He sets up new rules for our sexuality. He tells us that it is very right to be horny all the time. And that it is perfectly okay and healthy to feel lust whenever and towards whoever we want to, and that it even is more healthy and perfectly okay to act it out in every way we want to.

But have you ever looked closer on the results of this satanic understanding of sexuality? First of all it takes us further away from God. Anyone ever tried to pray after masturbating? I could never even try to get in contact with God after it.

And can you see what else is happening? Abuse of children, rape, jealousy, greed, etc. The list dosen't end. And do you know what list that is? It is the devils' list of success.

But for me and my girlfriend, there was something else that made very clear to us what our so called "easy-going-very-okay-perfectly-healthy-sexuality" really was.

At God's prompting, we confessed all of our previous sexual and deep emotional relationships to each other. Can you imagine, how hurtful this process is? I can guarantee that no one can endure this without the mercy of God and Jesus standing beside you to hold your hand. But how come it hurts when it was all so healthy and perfectly okay before?

Well, that is easy. We are eternal beings. A man and his woman are one flesh. Every sexual or deep emotional relationship one has before he marries is a betrayal of his or her later eternal partner. We give something away that only belongs to Him. This is the most important reason why our chaotic sexuality ends up being so hurtful.

The good news of course is that God knows about that and fixes it! I never felt his mercy so strongly before.

There is another important lie about sexuality which comes directly from Satan. I was afraid of changing our relationship from a sexual one to a non-sexual one, because Satan kept telling me that our relationship would lose depth if we abstained from sex. I think this is something most people think -- that there is no really deep relationship between women and men without sex.

Well, after we started to abstain from sexual behavior we realized at once that this was a lie. When you follow Jesus in this point, of course the same thing happens that always happens when you obey his teachings -- you grow closer to him. You start to hear Gods' voice more clearly and more often. You can feel Gods' presence and his blessing within the relationship, and through his presence it only begins to become a real, deep and meaningful relationship. That's why I would suggest every Christian couple to give it a try!

I'm not saying that sex is a bad thing. Sex is from God, of course! Our whole life is from God. And of all the gifts that He has given us in His grace, sex is one of the biggest, best, most beautiful, and powerful ones. But the bigger and more powerful something is the more responsibility that comes with its use. And in fact, sexuality in the Bible is not evil. What is evil, is the utter lack of responsibility in the way we use this gift. This is why Jesus speaks so seriously about sex.

The pastor of our church at the Manhattan Vineyard talked to us about it a few weeks ago in a very moving way. However, he started a few verses earlier at Matt. 5:27. "You have heard that it is said that you should not commit adultry, But I say to you, whoever looks at a woman with lust in his heart, already has committed adultry in his heart." What is this then? Does Jesus say that Sex is evil? Of course not. But I think this is a clear message from God about how we ought to conduct ourselves sexually. Jesus is radical, he goes further than just to say that sex outside of marraige is unhealthy. Not only the sex is wrong but also the fantasizing of sex is wrong.

It is clear that thoughts come constantly to our minds. What Jesus demands from us here is that we do not meditate and entertain such thoughts; we should cut them off, like a hand.

Our pastor also clarified the context of the passage. Jesus is talking to Jews, who knew the law; they knew that adultry was a sin. But Jesus makes clear to them that simply to follow the letter of the law was not enough. He looks in our hearts, and for him it is much much more important what he finds there. We also read Mark 7:20-22 as an accompanyment. It says, "And He said, what comes out of a man, this is what makes him impure; from the heart of man come all of the impure thoughts, theft, murder, adultry, greed, ..."

Didn't we all realize that Jesus is not looking on the outside like we do most of the time but directly into our hearts?

"Who looks on a woman lustfully already comitted adultry with her in his heart." How is that to be understood? I can only understand it in the following way: As command to gouge out this thoughts like an eye. To chase it away and to cut it off like a hand. And what follows this? Jesus is clearly starting from the point of monogamous marriage as a Christian ideal. He is laying the foundation that, in the Christian marriage, sex will be what God intended it to be. Woman and man become what they are in reality: One flesh. In this way sex really is great. Blessed. Holy. In any other form we have to gouge it out as well as any fantasies about it

Clearly, we've all fallen and failed in every way imaginable. The knowlegde of our own failure is surely what brought many of us to Jesus. We recognized that we can't do it right without God, that we fail. That we sin. But in this moment, Jesus was there for us. He took all of our sin on his back and died on the cross for us. He died slowly, six hours long. He suffered more then one would even let an animal suffer. Through this we could recognize him and his unmeasurable love for us. He overcame death and resurrected. He is all that we are. We believe in him. Even more. We KNOW that this is the truth.

But when it comes to sex before marriage, we don't want anything to have to do with Him. We don't want to listen to what he taught, we close our eyes and argue that all sex related problems are only rooted in our society. We think that if we only get some therapy we can see sex without being married as the healthy normal lifestyle.

But this is a lie.

Haven't we all figured out that we have to give our entire life back to Jesus so he can fix it? How is it that we get the idea that Jesus is the right way for everything but sex -- a little doctoring of our sick society and our damaged conscious will suffice? Sorry, but Jesus' teachings about sexuality are totally clear. Somehow we all turn into little Judases when its about sex. At this point we don't want to know anything else about Jesus. At the same time its clear that we are saved. Even though we fail on certain issues during our entire life over and over again, act against Jesus teachings and make a million mistakes, God is faithful and never betrays us. He stands to what he said and will take us to be with him in heaven.

I know that it is sometimes very difficult to hear God's voice clearly. But concerning the sex issue he spoke loud and clear to my girlfriend and me. In times when we want sex or become horny we chase it away until we get married. God told us to do so during our prayers. He gave us some bible passages and through our pastor he showed us what the sense of this law is. And he showed us how he sad he was when we were disobedient over and over again. But most important of all is that he is constanly helping us with this task. And, very important, too -- he forgave us for our sins.

God never asks us to give up something without giving us everything back -- plus interest! After we started to abstain from sex he filled the vaccum with his love and blessings and enriched and deepend our relationship.

I can only tell you about what is true for us and encourage anyone who wants to try the same thing. It works!

Lars Manheim

[/ QUOTE ]

Let it be abundantly clear, that a intimate relationship that involves fornication, is not going to be in the blessings of God,

 1 Thessalonians 4:3
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: 

It is God’s Will to abstain until marriage. This means masturbation as well. The enemy gets singles to believe that it is Ok to lust at any time over anyone and “just relieve yourself”.

That is a lie from hell. No one is going to tell me Jesus promotes self-gratification. In my opinion that is borderline insanity that anyone preaches it is ok to masturbate. Masturbation is simply fornication of the mind.

No, we are to flee sexual lust, there is not even to be a hint. If you are serious about wanting a relationship that last for a lifetime, then these words will take root in your spirit.

He created marriage and has set up the rules to abide by. He does this for our own good. If we do not abide by them, the outcome is obvious, “Whatever you sow you will reap”. If we sow fornication we will reap the rewards of a relationship that is founded on quicksand.

For those serious about life long fulfilling relationships, built on true love, the rules of pre-marriage lifestyle is very straightforward in the bible:


1Thes 4:2-5 (NIV) For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God.

Gal 5:19 (NIV) The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery.

Eph 5:3 (NIV) But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 

Not even a hint. This means clothes are to stay on, there should be no fondling, no sexual teasing, no sexual touching.

Gal 5:19 says that this is obvious to everyone, yet many do not care. That is their choice, but they will reap the outcomes of living in sin.

 Jude 1:7
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 

Does this sound harsh? Then think of the rewards. With this standard, God is showing both that they can have total trust in each other. Furthermore, they couple is showing they are willing to be faithful to each other and God, therefore God can bless them in the manner He most desires.

The difference between a blessed relationship and an unblessed one will be discussed in the future. But quickly, if you can be with your significant other for say 3 years with no sexual conduct taking place, how much will you have to worry about him lusting over just any girl? Adultery will not happen, or even be a thought, you can have 200% trust, in fact his eyes will only be fixed on you--that alone will keep the sexual life of the married couple at neverending peak.

With criteria such as this, the man/woman is showing true respect and honest love for his or her mate. Moreover, the marriage night will be unforgettable and will be eternally special. For truly, the two will become one flesh as Jesus taught.

Two other types of sand that will be discussed are,

2. Money-

3. Power-

There are others such as survival, family, etc. But lust, money and power are the top three.

The main key to these is to recognize, God does not bless these types of relationships. The two are essentially on their own.

 Psalm 68
1 Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him.
2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.
3 But let the righteous be glad; let them rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice.
4 Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.
5 A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in his holy habitation.
6 God setteth the solitary in families: he bringeth out those which are bound with chains: but the rebellious dwell in a dry land.


God will only provide His special blessing on those who follow His commandments regarding intimacy.

IronKnuckle

09-24-2004, 02:16 AM

wonderful treatise.

Venom

09-24-2004, 03:38 AM

http://www.bryceimages.hpg.ig.com.br/quicksand.jpg

lol /forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Looks awesome, O.S! I will check this out tommarow. /forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif

XenoWang

09-24-2004, 11:25 AM

"Not even a hint. This means clothes are to stay on, there should be no fondling, no sexual teasing, no sexual touching."

Where does one draw the line at physical intimacy in a relationship then? Where does passionate kissing lie?

Venom

09-24-2004, 02:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]

No, we are to flee sexual lust, there is not even to be a hint.

[/ QUOTE ]

/forum/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forum/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

The smack down has offically been laid! That was an awesome post, very convicting.

Adam Knowlden

09-24-2004, 02:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Where does passionate kissing lie?

[/ QUOTE ]

Great question bro!

There is no specific commandment regarding, "do not do this" "do not do that" in a pre-marriage relationship aside from abstaining 100% from sexual lust. Therefore for example, if a hug can occur with no lust, it is not a sin. But if you are hugging the girl in an unappropriate way it is sin. Same with a kiss. However, Paul did give us a stern, stern warning, which I feel kissing as you are describing will definetly fall into.

1 Corinthians 7
1Now concerning the things where of ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.


We are told it is good not to "touch" a woman. From this we can dissect the word to find out exactly what "touching" includes.

haptomaihap- Reflexive of;properly to attach oneself to, that is, to touch (in many implied relations):—touch.

Not touching a woman before marriage is descrbied as good:

kalos;Of uncertain affinity; properly beautiful, but chiefly (figuratively) good (literally or morally), that is, valuable or virtuous (for appearance or use, and thus distinguished from G18, which is properly intrinsic):—X better, fair, good (-ly), honest, meet, well, worthy.&#8233;

The logic of this advice is for the following purpose:

2Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife and let every woman have her own husband.


to avoid fornication

It good not to touch a woman to avoid fornication.

Fornication can not only occur physically, but also soulishly.

The mind, will, and emotions are the essence of the soul. As such the soul is what brings forth sin and therefore death.

 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. 

The heart produces sinful thoughts, which in turn tempts the body to fulfill its desires. However even if the body can be put under subjection the mind has already been corrupted by the desires stirred in our heart.

20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.


Imagine Christ never once had a vain thought. He fulfilled the commandments of the law perfectly,

 Mark 12:30
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 

But the point is, that fornication can be committed in the mind as the Master taught:

 Matthew 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 

This is a bit off topic, but temptation comes on us all. It even came on Christ. But He immediately dispersed all thoughts that were vain and out of God's perfect Will for His life.

Temptation is brought forth and pondered on in the heart, which then affects the soul. So therefore, lusting for another outside of marriage is sin of the soul, which Christ said was adultery of the heart.

We are told in the bible that whatever is not done in faith is sin.

So the answer is this. Can you honestly, and remember you can trick me, but God knows all your thoughts and the intent of your heart. So honestly, can you kiss your significant other passionatly, with no lustful intent?

If you can, and this is done in faith, it is not sin.

However, if you can do it without lusting, it is essentially an unpassionate gesture, I do not see the point in even doing it. As this type of kissing is as you said, passionate and meant to be an introduction to making love.

2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.


But more vital is that we all know what passionate kissing can quickly lead into. It can lead to fornication, which remember can occur both in mind and body.

As Paul said, it is good not to even touch a woman in this manner to avoid temptation.

Think of it in bodybuilding terms.

If I was on a strict cut, I could go and put my face right up to a hot gooey, chocolate cake and smell it all day long. How long will I be able to resist eating that cake after a 2 or 3 week cut? How long will it be before I begin visualizing in my mind eating that cake? Not long and anyone who says otherwise is living in a fantasy land.

If I am getting passionate with a beautiful girl, how long will it be before I begin having lustful thoughts about her? How long will it be before I would be able to resist her?

No it is good not to even go there bro, to avoid fornication.

Also remember the man is to set an example and lead his potential wife. Do not lead her into temptation. If you love her this will be your primary objective as the future leader of the relationship. Love her as Christ loves the church. Christ never tempts us to sin.

 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.


Neither should you do to your significant other. So the point with that is that even if you can 100% disperse all lustful thoughts and never yeild to the desire of fornication...can your mate?

You should not even tempt them to do so. This is why the bible says for women to dress modestly, as men are enticed by their eyes. If the woman truely charishes God's authority and charishes not tempting you, she will not use her body to entice you before marriage. She would understand the disgusting results of sin, and the hateful intents of the dark one for your relationship, and would never want to put you in his cluthes.

XenoWang

09-24-2004, 03:44 PM

Indeed, but what if it simply ends at kissing? I know it's hard to resist temptation and even to avoid temptation, but what if a couple's will is almost forged in fire? Kissing can be a wonderful expression of affection and love and can be and often is an end rather than a means to an end.

XenoWang

09-24-2004, 03:56 PM

[quote
The smack down has offically been laid!

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the only thing that's supposed to be laid around here! Awwww, I'm sorry, but that was too easy /forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Adam Knowlden

09-24-2004, 04:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Indeed, but what if it simply ends at kissing? I

[/ QUOTE ]

As I said, is it done in faith as the Lord requires to not be sin?

 "Whatever does not proceed from faith is sin" (Rom.14:23) 

Also are any lustful thoughts conceived from either person?

Moreover, would Christ promote such temptation, as you said this creates an atmosphere of temptation.

[ QUOTE ]
I know it's hard to resist temptation and even to avoid temptation

[/ QUOTE ]

Then why tempt God?

 22 Flee also youthful lusts: 

 1 Cor. 6:18: "Flee from sexual immorality. 

Flee from temptation, do not indulge in it, tempting God.

Remember you are the high priest of the relationship, as Christ is High Priest of the church.

 25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing[2] her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church-- 30for we are members of his body.


Think of the soul of your mate. Do not lead her into temptation. Remember the Lord's Prayer,"Lead us not into temptation". Recall you are the high priest, and are called to do the duties of the high priest as Christ does His duty in heaven.

[ QUOTE ]
but what if a couple's will is almost forged in fire?

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost is not 100% sexual purity, which is what God requires.

I'm not attacking you, I'm sincerly looking out for you best interest. You have essentially said,

1. Yes passionate kissing can lead to fornication, either in mind or body, and that the temptation is hard to resist.
2. We are almost sure we will abstain.
3. But I am going to induldge anyway.

[ QUOTE ]
Kissing can be a wonderful expression of affection and love and can be and often is an end rather than a means to an end.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no argueing that. Kissing is great! Really that has nothing to do with this. The issue is lust and fornication, and God's clear commandments on the matter and moreover your stance as high priest.

Just think about it and pray about it bro. I am not saying you can not give a peck on the cheek or perhaps lips. I'm talking being alone and making out, and most likely you are not just kissing but embracing lustfully.

Remember I am not God. You can tell me anything you want to regarding your iron willpower. But God sees your heart and mind when you are in passion with this girl. You can not fool him.

 Psalm 139
1 O lord, thou hast searched me, and known me.
2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.
3 Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.
4 For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether.

Venom

09-24-2004, 08:14 PM

Awesome breakdown!

thevoice

09-25-2004, 02:21 PM

Very interesting article Oldschool, I have a couple of questions if u don’t mind me asking?

What is the actual thing we do to be married in Gods eyes? For example can 2 people marry themselves by God himself? I ask this and sorry if this goes off topic a little but if marriage requires a vicar how did Adam and Eve’s children marry?. Would it have been God himself who married them?

Adam Knowlden

09-26-2004, 12:41 AM

Good questions and know you can ask anything bro.

Here's a good selection for you:

[ QUOTE ]
What constitutes marriage?

Question: "What constitutes marriage? Does a couple have to be married in a church? If an unmarried couple has sex, are they married in God's eyes?”

Answer: Marriage is an act of the will, not a rite or ritual. What makes you married is the act of your will, and the act of the will of your mate, that says to each other, I allow you to come into my life and become one flesh with me. It is the same as when you ask Christ to come into your life and become one flesh with you, in salvation. It does not matter who performs the rite, what matters are the wills of the two participants! It is an act of the will, not a ceremony. A ceremony is usually a part of the process, but it does not complete the action! A couple who is married by a judge is no less married than a couple who was married in a pastor or priest. God is the one who created marriage (Gen 2:18-25). What matters is your heart before God, not the wedding ceremony itself.

However, no one is married in God's eyes if that marriage has not been recognized by the laws of the land in which the couple lives. God gave the laws and gave the government the authority to determine what constitutes a legal marriage (Rom 13:4, Col 1:16). In the United States, a legal marriage is only binding with the necessary paperwork, and God honors those laws as well. God takes marriage very seriously; it is a sacred covenant not to be taken lightly. To not want to obey the laws of marriage in society indicates that you are not ready to make the unbreakable covenant marriage requires.

It is true that sexual relations is the ultimate fulfillment of a couple becoming “one flesh” (Gen 2:24; Matt 19:5; Mark 10:8; 1 Cor 6:16; Eph 5:31). However, the act of sex does not make a couple married. If that were so, there would be not such thing as pre-marital sex – once a couple had sex, they were married. The Bible calls “pre-marital sex” fornication. It is repeatedly condemned in Scripture along with all other forms of sexual immorality (Acts 15:20; Rom 1:29; 1 Cor 5:1; 6:13,18; 7:2; 10:8; 12:21; Gal 5:19; Eph 5:3; Col 3:5; 1Thess 4:3; Jude 7). The Bible promotes abstinence before marriage. Fornication is the specific term given to sexual relations before marriage. Sex before marriage is just as wrong as adultery and other forms of sexual immorality, because they all involve having sex with someone you are not married to.

The Bible may not go into great detail about a wedding ceremony, but every culture that has ever existed has practiced some form of ceremony of joining a man and a woman together. God has built into human beings the understanding of a need for some form of wedding ceremony. Many understand Genesis 2:22-24 as God performing the first wedding ceremony. If an unmarried couple has sex, does that mean they are married? The Bible gives us no reason to believe this to be the case. The act of sexual relations may have made them for a moment “physically married” but that does not mean God has joined them together as husband and wife.

Recommended Resource: Why True Love Waits by Josh McDowell.

[/ QUOTE ]

thevoice

09-26-2004, 03:29 AM

thanks Oldschool, thats cleared it all up in my mind, thansk again. /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Adam Knowlden

09-30-2004, 03:48 PM

Part One C, The foundation,

$$Money$$- The desert of emptiness

http://www.blueprint21.de/diary/pic-08-desert.jpg

 4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.
11 Ye that fear the LORD, trust in the LORD: he is their help and their shield.


Before we can apply this spirit to relationships we need to establish some basics quickly.

Many believe that the commandments that apply to idol worship only apply to the ancient times. However this is not the case. Idol worship does not have to mean you bow down to a rock every day. Idol worship is loving something in your life more than you love God.

For many their idol is their flesh and the desires of it. They value pleasing themselves more than pleasing God.

 2 Timothy 3
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 

They live for themselves as opposed to living for God. Essentially taking and giving nothing back. Making a daily mockery of God's grace.

This is called idolatry, or having something in your life more important to you than God. Making something the center of your life, before God.

 1 Corinthians 10:14
Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry. 

5Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6Because of these, the wrath of God is coming 

 Exodus 20:3
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 

Many say, "well that doesn't apply to me, that's an ancient law!". Is it really though?

5 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: 

Here is what God is saying,

"I am full of love and mercy to those that put me first. But if you have another God, you can expect to receive the only thing equal to my love...my wrath."

whose name is Jealous

Many have the preconceived notion that satanists are people in dark robes sacrificing chickens in the woods. That is a false picture. The creed of the satanists is to live to serve yourself. Most of them do not belive in a literal devil, but the worship as yourself as the primary being in the universe.

Satanism = idolatry

Isaiah 14:14
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.


Literally if you are not with Christ, and submitting to His authority, you are a satanist, essentially living to fulfill the lusts of the flesh...living in idolatry.

You have set yourself up as a god, the epidemny of the idol worship.

 Galatians 5
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.



The Lord Himself said,

23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth. 

Many have heard, "money is the root of all evil", however they are leaving out an important word,

 1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 

The love of money is the root of all evil. As I said earlier, for many their idol is their flesh and the desires of it. The love for money and what it can buy and influence, is often at the root of this.

Money itself is not the idol, it is those who set themselves up as their own god, with money as a tool to satisfy their own flesh that are committing idolatry.

Read this again:

4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands
8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them. 

There idol is the work of men's hands, and his hands produce what is in his heart...the worship of himself about God.

 Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 

Christ said, 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 

For example, Job had immense wealth, but was a good stewart with his money. God was his God, his money was not a channel for promoting his lusts.

 Job 1

Prologue

1 In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil. 2 He had seven sons and three daughters, 3 and he owned seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen and five hundred donkeys, and had a large number of servants. He was the greatest man among all the people of the East.


Here we see a very wealthy man whom God esteemed as blameless and upright.

But Job did not make himself a god. He did not love money more than the commandments of God. He knew his role as a servant of the Lord,

 8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."
9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."
12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."
Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD .
13 One day when Job's sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother's house, 14 a messenger came to Job and said, "The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were grazing nearby, 15 and the Sabeans attacked and carried them off. They put the servants to the sword, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!"
16 While he was still speaking, another messenger came and said, "The fire of God fell from the sky and burned up the sheep and the servants, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!"
17 While he was still speaking, another messenger came and said, "The Chaldeans formed three raiding parties and swept down on your camels and carried them off. They put the servants to the sword, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!"
18 While he was still speaking, yet another messenger came and said, "Your sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother's house, 19 when suddenly a mighty wind swept in from the desert and struck the four corners of the house. It collapsed on them and they are dead, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!"
20 At this, Job got up and tore his robe and shaved his head. Then he fell to the ground in worship 21 and said:

"Naked I came from my mother's womb,
and naked I will depart. [3]
The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away;
may the name of the LORD be praised."

22 In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing.


Now getting into relationships.

We see again, why basing a relationship on the economic status of the partner is not biblical and empty.

Now if the partner is a sloppy stewart, that is another issue, but to go into a relationship, not founded on Christ, but instead on what your partner can buy you, that is complete sand.

By doing so you love money, more than Christ.

Because like lust, it is an outlet for fulfilling the flesh, in this case idolatry, making oneself a god over their life.

 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


It is empty and not fulfilling. Like sexual lust, if this is what the relationship is built on, it is sinking sand.

The painted dessert of Arizona, looks beautiful...

http://www.garylynch.net/albums/roadtrip/Painted_Dessert_AZ.sized.jpg

It appears to be full of beauty, it is colorful, surreal, and appeasing to the eyes, but walk into it, and it is dry, empty, and will parch your soul.

This is the same with money. It looks great, but it is empty. There is nothing to fulfill you or give you peace unspeakable. This is because it is not of the Spirit, but of the flesh.

The more you try to satisfy greed, the more lust for greed you will attain. The same with fornication. The more you fulfill it the more you will crave it, and the more you are being enslaved by it.



Proverbs 5:22
His own iniquities shall take the wicked himself, and he shall be holden with the cords of his sins. 

Like the relationship you will never be content and you never have enough.

 1 Timothy 6:6
But godliness with contentment is great gain. 

In this society we are marketed to, to never be content.

As soon as you have the latest piece of clothes, a newer better one comes out.

As soon as you have the new computer, and smaller faster one comes out,

and the list goes on. Now there is nothing wrong with wanting new things. But often we become sloppy stewards, non content with what we have.

We need to sift all of our finances through God.

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.


Everything we have, whether we acknowldege it or not, that is good comes from God. We need to learn to be content and thankful for what we have.

Even the sinful are blessed by God. In theological terms this is called, "common grace".

Why is it someone like Dennis Rodman is so blessed with the gift to play basketball, yet he is a public sinner? Grace.

Why is Brittney Spears such a graceful dancer and great singer when she goes about teaching young women to be immodest with dress? Grace.

Why is it that people can mock His Commands daily through their actions and speech and God does not come down and roast them? Grace.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 

Christ said,
 Matthew 5:45
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 

God continually pours out His gifts, and in return people use them to set themselves up as gods and give nothing back to Him. It is sad, but yet God continues showing favor.

Remember the law of sowing and reaping,

 Galatians 6
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.


If you sow into the flesh, you reap the rewards of the flesh.

One thing God assures

Be not deceived; God is not mocked

as a harvest of idolatry is two things:

1. Never content-

For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption 

If you sow into sin idolatry, you will reap discontent.

2. An inquenchable desire, and a continual Lust for more-

 26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?


3. Strife and sorrow- Finances is one of the most primary causes for divorce.

 1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.


If you chose to serve money, you will reap the rewards of being the slave to money.

The spirit you base the relationship on is the type of fulfillment you can expect to recieve.

People may put on a good act, and pretend they are happy with money, but take away the money, and see where their peace and joy is. There is none, its a false sense of reality and hope. Similar to drugs and alcohol it keeps them in a "drunken" stuper. And just as the alcoholic is only happy when he is drinking so too are the greedy only happy when they are buying or thinking about the next thing they can buy, or flaunting off their junk in front of others.

They are only happy when they are fulfilling their lust, greed, and what can they get next. This is the bondage of sin. Slavery to the desires of the flesh. Affliction at its peak.

Your foundation in the relationship is not on the rock, but on sand, Christ re-affirms this:

Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and money.

Venom

09-30-2004, 10:40 PM

This looks awesome O.S! I printed it out, and am going to be big time studying it this week.

Thanks. /forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Adam Knowlden

10-03-2004, 06:01 PM

Part One D, The foundation,

http://www.envf.port.ac.uk/geo/research/environment/wdcrg/chesilio.jpg

Power- the pride of life…

 1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 

Thus far we have fixed on the three types of spirits a relationship can be built on that are not of God.

1.The lust of the flesh- Wealth and what it can gain
2.The lust of the eyes- Sexual desire

I do want to stop at this point, and be clear though.

There is nothing wrong with your mate being wealthy, or being attractive. The point is basing your relationship on those attributes. Basing the relationship on those aspects is sand, and can and most likely will be swept away by the trials of life and lead to unhapiness, biterness, or adultery. Even if they last, they will not have near the full potential as a relationship built on Christ.

Founding a relationship on these spirits is to place your trust in these spirits.

As I said earlier, this prohibits God from Blessing the relationship, and the relationship must stand on its own, and be sustained on their own accord, independent of God’s Grace. That is shaky at best, especially if the two decide to make a life long commitment to one another.

“…not of the Father, but…the world”

Equally as sand based, is founding the relationship on the way your mate “makes you look” to the eyes of the world. In other words, basing the relationship on the pride of your ego.

 Psalm 10:4
The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts. 

http://www.phys.psu.edu/~schiffer/Images/sandcastle.jpg

Look at the above sand castle. It is impressive, and obviously represents hours of time spent planning and building. But how sturdy is it?…

http://tresolini.org/andrew/marathon/images/sandcastle.jpg

It may have the appearance of immense strength and security, but then the water comes and washes it away until all that is left is a faded memory.

 27And the rain fell and the floods came and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell--and great and complete was the fall of it.


It is easy to be captivated by the beauty or status of a person of the opposite sex. But in the end its superficial.

 10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.
12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.
30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised.
31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.



Do not base the relationship on pride. If you do you are setting yourself up to be shattered.

Ultimately, pride is only setting your sights on the status of the person and the way they make you look to the world.

Fellow brothers, guard your heart and be sure it is not full of pride against your mate.

For example, you can be proud of your mate, for who they are as a person in Christ, and the favor God has shown you for giving her/him to you, but do not allow your heart to be filled with fleshly pride because of her beauty or physical attributes to look good to the world.

Often you will see guys “showing off their girls” in front of the guys, and even talking crude about them behind their backs, attempting to get his buddies to covet him in their hearts. That is a sin, and not the reason God gave you that girl. He gave you that girl to make you a complete person, not to make others jealous or envious of you.

 Psalm 10:3
For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.

Luke 12:15
And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

Romans 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 

Ladies you too must be careful. Be sure your heart is not fixed on the status of the guy you are with, for he could lose it tomorrow. Moreover, the Lord is clear that basing the relationship on this type of pride is unproductive and a disaster waiting to happen.

For example if your mate is a famous musician, a rich executive, has a nice car, or is a well known where you socialize. What if he lost that talent, lost his job, lost that car, or fell out of favor, if you are established on sand, you will be ashamed of him.

Why? He has affected your ego, or self-image.

This is pride, defining yourself in fleshly lusts and what you can profit your ego. Authentic relationship between and a woman is about servitude. How can you serve your mate? That is the question, not how good he can make you look in front of others. Now there is absolutely nothing wrong with your mate being blessed with a good job, buff/toned body, nice car, looks, or what have you. Just be sure that is not what your relationship is founded on. If you are founded on Christ and your man/woman has a heart for God, his/her status in the world's eyes will not affect your love for him.

 Proverbs 8:13
The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

Proverbs 11:2
When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.

Proverbs 14:3
In the mouth of the foolish is a rod of pride: but the lips of the wise shall preserve them. 

For both, it setting your heart on the outward appearance of the person. This is not how true love is formed. This is artifical love, that will rust.

When Paul spoke regarding outward appearance, he was going deeper than just the way the person looks, but on the way the person appears to the world.

 2 Corinthians 10:7
Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? if any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's. 

Here is Paul, a literal super saint, he could have used his status to make himself the center of attention, wherever he went.

For example, in Lystra after Paul started healing people the people wanted to make him a god:

 5 And when there was an assault made both of the Gentiles, and also of the Jews with their rulers, to use them despitefully, and to stone them,
6 They were ware of it, and fled unto Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, and unto the region that lieth round about:
7 And there they preached the gospel.
8 And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:
9 The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,
10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.
11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.
12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.
13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.
14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:
16 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.
17 Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.


But he did not. He identified himself through Christ, to glorify Him.

 18 Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also.
19 For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise.
20 For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.
21 I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak. Howbeit whereinsoever any is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also.
22 Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?
30 If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.
31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.
32 In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city of the damascenes with a garrison, desirous to apprehend me:
33 And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and escaped his hands. 

We are going to get into the features of building the relationship on Christ in the next part, but for a quick overview, the foundation of a relationship in Christ is servitude. What can you do for your mate, not how can they make you look to the world. This is what Paul taught and this is why the Lord revealed so many mysteries to him. He was lowly of heart.

You should be thanking God for the person he has brought into your life, not manipulating them to seek glory from the world.

 17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

William Ustav

10-03-2004, 06:15 PM

Adam, that final part was really excellent! And not only for christians, but for unbelievers too, I believe!

TheFreightTrain

10-09-2004, 07:40 PM

I do not really know how to ask this as I am not quite sure what it is I am asking here.

I currently go to university and everywhere I look I see females dressed in a manner that teases me or makes the thoughts in my mind go dirty. Most females that I speak with on a regular basis or have grown extremely close to are usually dressed in this manner and I feel ashamed thinking of them in this way.

Does God appreciate (for lack of a better word) my efforts in trying to push such thoughts out of my mind or am I still sinning? The problem is the thoughts keep returning afterwards as if bombarding me. How do I go about keeping a clear mind, a clean mind? I want to love a person for who they are and not what they look like, but sometimes their looks and manner of dress tempt me too much.

In part B Old School said: Being attracted to a potential mate is definitely important and in itself is not a sin. God designed us this way and describes both men and women in the bible who are "handsome" or "beautiful".

So, if I were to meet a potential mate, what are the limits of my attraction to be? I have never been in love before so you can imagine I am even more confused as a result. I just find it really difficult picturing an attraction without some kind of lust being involved in the mind.

Will this problem ease up as I get older and the raging teen hormones let up?

Adam Knowlden

10-09-2004, 08:13 PM

Hey bro, I don't have time to answer right now, but read this for now:
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum/showflat.php?Board=bodybuilder&Number=584680