CREATINE ANSWERS - For all questions.

[Adam Knowlden]

We do not at all mind beginner questions, but I've seen tons of very basic questions lately regarding creatine. Please read this first before asking your question about creatine. /forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

First here is an exerpt from Yu Yevon:

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Load for 5 days by taking 20-25 grams a day. Then maintain for 4-6 weeks with 5-10 grams a day. On lifting days, take 5 grams in the morning and 5 grams post workout. On non lifting days, take 5 grams in the morning only. Only take creatine with a simple sugar post workout, and not at any other time. Also, scoop the creatine directly into your mouth and swallow it with water due to creatines instability in water.

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And here is about 90% of creatine questions answered:

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<font color="blue"> Creatine Myth and Facts + What Creatine Really Is
by Jacob Wilson

I can't help but shake my head whenever I hear gym morons discuss creatine. It has become the ultimate " tall tail " in bodybuilding today. And the myths and stories concerning this supplement, become more and more preposterous as the years go by. The plain fact of the matter is that most people who take creatine, do not even know what it is, or exactly how our bodies use it. I find this puzzling, because I do not believe in ever taking supplements that I do not fully understand. After you finish reading this article, the myths and tall tales concerning creatine will be completely dissolved and like myself, you will shake your head when rookies in the gym, cluelessly discuss the effects of this supplement.

Questions and Answers: I receive at least a handful of letters a day concerning creatine. I will post the most frequently asked of those below.

Q: Is Creatine a Steroid?

A: I would like to dispel this myth by giving you the definition of what an anabolic steroid is. These are synthetic versions of the male hormone testosterone. Creatine, as you will see below is not. Basically anyone who says this should immediately be labeled a gymbecile.

Q: What is Creatine?

A: First, let me emphasize that our bodies already produce creatine naturally. Did you ever watch the transformers when you were a kid? Well if not, there were groups of robots called " combiners. " They would join together and form an even larger and more massive robot, crushing everything in their paths! Our liver does the same thing with the three amino acids, Arginine, Glycine and Methionine. It combines them to form creatine, much like the constructicons combined to form devistator! Ok so that was a lame example, but it explains the process quite nicely.

That being said, it is also important to understand that over 95 percent of this substance is found in our muscles. With the remainder being stored in our brain, heart and other parts of our bodies.

Q: The clerk at my local sporting goods store, explained to me, that when your body runs out of food at night, your muscles can take the creatine in them and use it to fuel their growth.

A: I don't believe I will even waste my time dispelling his explanation. How moronic can you get? My real question is, where do these people get there information from? I actually have a theory on this very matter. I believe, that there is a moronic website that is the complete opposite of abcbbodybuilding. I've tried to crack the code, but gymmorons.com just didn't work. Perhaps they are trying to hide their identity? But regardless of my theory, the guy is dead wrong!

Q: What exactly does creatine do?

A: I will break down the uses of this supplement into 4 sections.

1. Creatine works mainly to increase our Creatine Phosphate System

This is a very difficult concept to understand. And what I am going to do, here is place an excerpt from my article on energy systems in here. It will explain how our body's use energy, and how creatine fits into this!

The Three Energy Systems

What we will now discuss is how our muscles are fueled to contract in virtually every situation possible. You see, a different energy system is used for a heavy set of 4 repetitions then compared to a set of 12 repetitions. Each of these is linked with a particular muscle fiber type. If you can manipulate the energy system, then you can drastically increase muscle mass.

Firstly I need to emphasize that our muscle fibers store ATP. The problem is that we only have enough to fuel contractions for about 3 seconds, and even in the most well trained bodybuilder that supply can only last about 5-6 seconds. So what is the point of having such a low amount of stored energy? It's essentially designed to give you a quick burst. You name the sport( barring chess ) and every athlete will tell you the benefits of being able to call on a quick burst of energy! What becomes painfully obvious at this point is that 3 seconds will not power 90-99 percent of traditional bodybuilding sets. Therefore our body must have a way of producing more energy to sustain contractions! This is where the 3 fueling systems come into play!

note: again, all three energy system's function is to produce ATP. These processes dominantly take place in the mitochondria( about 95 percent of the ATP in your muscle stores to be exact ! ) that lie inside of the sarcoplasm of the muscle fiber. For now I will explain the energy systems, further on I will explain how to increase their proficiency!

Phosphagen System

To replenish the ATP levels quickly after the initial energy boost is used up, muscle cells contain a high-energy phosphate compound called creatine phosphate(PC). To state the obvious, this compound contains a phosphate. Your muscle cell releases enzymes that break the phosphate off of the PC molecule, then this phosphate is transferred back to the ADP to reform the high energy molecule ATP.

To recap, when your body uses ATP, it breaks one phosphate off of it which produces energy. This burst fuels contractions. What is left after a phosphate is broken off of ATP is the molecule called ADP.
Our muscle fibers contain 5 times as much creatine phosphate then it does ATP. Your cell sends out enzymes that break off the phosphate from the creatine. The Energy released from this sever and the phosphate molecule are recombined with the ADP to again form ATP. The PC system provides an additional 10 to 20 seconds of energy to allow us, as bodybuilders to continue an intense set!

A process such as this can occur in the blink of an eye, which makes it very efficient! Again, for the conscious athlete( when I say conscious, I mean one who improves this system ) this will provide a good 15-20 seconds more energy for contractions, and perhaps a bit more. You see creatine phosphate stores run out about this time. In total ATP stores and the creatine phosphate system provide about 25-30 seconds of maximum muscular contraction. This system is the powerhouse for extremely high intensity activities. If it is weak then you will have a difficult time lifting heavy weights for any extended period of time. This will be extremely detrimental if your goal is to hit the denser fast twitch IIb fibers.

One way to increase your creatine stores is obvious. You can easily saturate your muscle cells with creatine by actually supplementing with it. Your body already produces it, but supplementation assists in the saturation process. You can see why this is a proven product. It literally speaks for itself in functionality, and has proven to be one of the safest substances on the shelves today! Millions have used creatine for over a decade with absolutely no side effects whatsoever. And the amount of studies to back up its safety are second to none! This is a tried and true power house. You can learn more about it by reading my article, creatine myths and facts. My recommendation is to load it for 5 days at 15-25 grams broken up into 5 grams servings per meal. This will saturate your muscles with creatine. Following this period simple maintain saturation with 5-10 grams a day. Then start the process over in about 8 weeks. On a side note, steak is also beneficial to refilling your PC stores. It to is rich in this substance!

What System is Beneficial For - It allows you to contract your muscles up to a total of 30 seconds of
intense exertion( with the ATP system )! The benefits are obvious. Anytime you lift heavy, you call on this system to back you up. If you play other explosive sports then it is also obvious. A play in football is relatively short and would rely heavily on the PC system. Hockey shifts are also relatively short, many elite teams only allow 30 seconds shifts of all out work per player. You name it: martial arts, soccer, rugby, all have the need for superior functionality of the PC system.

For more information in this regard, and further discussion on energy systems click here

2. Increases The Pump!

Creatine has been shown to super hydrate your muscles( cell volumization, it literally draws water into the muscle cells). This increases pumps dramatically! Even while on low carbs, creatine can help and maintain your pump in the weight room.

3. Increases The Reparation Process of Bodybuilding.

Muscle growth occurs, via a process known as the dehydration synthesis. What does this mean? The dehydration synthesis is the process in which larger molecules are formed. In this case we are referring to muscle protein. And this is also referred to, as of course protein synthesis.
Consequently, many journals point, to creatine actually enhancing this.

Overview:

The main function of creatine is to provide our muscles with more energy. More energy means that our muscles can contract harder therefore our body must adapt to the greater amount of stress that we put our bodies through. It super hydrates our muscles and improves protein synthesis.

Q: How exactly does Creatine Apply to An Athlete?

A: Simple, it does so by enhancing your creatine phosphate energy system. This does a number of things:

1. Increases explosion - Most athletes notice more explosiveness after utilizing this supplement
2. Allows yourself to push yourself harder and longer. This leads to not only more endurance, but also forces the body to adapt to a greater stimulus, which leads to greater gains in every area!

Note: Interestingly enough, creatine in some studies has been shown to buffer lactic acid. If this be true, then one can see how it can enhance any sport that requires one to run.

Q: What are the side effects of Creatine and in General how safe is it?
A: As stated above, creatine is not, and I repeat not a hormone. Therefore it does not have the side effects associated with any prohormone or illegal steroid.

There have been hundreds of studies done on creatine that all show that it is a safe supplement.

To further prove its safety two an a half million kilograms of creatine were consumed in the United States alone in 1999! That statistic alone speaks volumes about the safety and efficiency of this supplement! Not only that, but creatine has been the number one supplement on the market for almost a decade and no one has reported any adverse side effects from it. ( aside from the ones I listed above. )

Q: I don't workout, but do you think that creatine will build muscles and help me to lose fat?

A: No! If you don't workout I cannot imagine what supplement would help you. Creatine provides your muscles with more short term energy - but that is wasted if you do not exercise them. If you take creatine you should push yourself even harder in the gym. The idea is with more energy you should be able to workout harder. A harder workout leads to increased muscle mass.

Q: Since Creatine makes you gain weight should I not take it on a cut?

A: Yes, creatine causes your body to hold water, but that is a good thing! The fact that your muscles are super hydrated even on a cut is fantastic. I see absolutely no correlation between taking creatine and our body storing fat. If anything, creatine will assist us in maintaining more lean mass while dieting. In my mind there is no point to discontinuing the use of creatine while trying to burn fat. Except, you will want to stop taking it 2 weeks before a show, so that you are not holding water. Besides that it will only benefit you during a cut!

Q: Can I take Creatine and Protein at the same time?

A: Firstly, protein is a food product. If you couldn't take creatine and protein at the same time, then you would have to be a strict vegetarian and still you would end out consuming around 40 grams a day just from normal foods. To top this off, creatine is not much use without a significant protein intake. What is the point of pushing your muscles further than they are used to, if you are not going to provide the amino acids necessary for their repair?

Q: Which supplement is Better Creatine or Protein?

A: ( I probably get asked this question at least once a day through email.) Amino acids are the building blocks of our muscles. If you do not get enough than there is no point to working out. Creatine is an outstanding supplement, but if you have to choose from getting at least 1 gram a day of protein or getting your creatine then opt for the protein. However I do want to stress that creatine is an excellent supplement. In fact for assistance in muscular gains I would rate it second only to whey.

Q: I just got myself some creatine. Now I only started with half the dosage, because creatine fires me up and I don't want too much of a buzz in the weight room! So how should I up the dosage?

( Yes I know what you are thinking ( LOL ). I get these kinds of questions everyday though. I answer them because I was a rookie at one time too. )

A: Ummm, their are two things that come to my mind.

1. Your creatine has been spiked with caffiene or ephedrine

2. Your creatine has gone rotten and is causing you to have hallucinations ( LOL ). Or a " Buzz " before your workout.

Creatine is not and I repeat not a stimulant! It should not make you have these feelings. Read my article next month on the subject and you will see why. Until then, if your container of creatine really gives you a buzz, then. throw it away immediately!

Q: I am breaking out, is it because of the creatine?

A: ( Again ) Creatine does not effect hormone levels in any way. So the answer is no.

Q: I am a woman and I was thinking about taking creatine, but I don't want to become huge and veiny like a man.

A: If that is the case, then I would suggest that you do not eat like the " huge and veiny " men that you do not want to look like. Creatine will assist you in your workout, but only calories will make you grow. Yes, creatine is an excellent supplement for mass, but only if you are eating for mass. However creatine does make you hold water and could make you a bit bloated. If you are sensitive to those effects then don't use it.

Q: Do you feel that creatine is cheating? I want to earn my muscles the hard way and don't want to cheat to get them.

A: ( I can't stand these types of questions!!! ) Yes, you would be cheating. You would be cheating yourself out of great gains by not supplementing with it!

Q: Is there anything I can take to make creatine a more effective supplement?

A: Excellent Question!

a. The first thing I would like to emphasize is that creatine will not work if you are not properly hydrated! It relies heavily on this, so you must drink tons of water, if you want optimal results from it. Super hydrating your body will also improve your weight room pumps tremendously!

b. Have you ever heard of a stack? The definition is two supplements that when combined actually increase each others effectiveness. For example, ephedra is actually more effective at burning fat when combined with caffiene. So too is creatine when combined with glutamine. Both cell volumize, but they do so through different pathways. Together they cell volumize within and outside of our muscle cells. I cannot stress the importance of hydrated muscles. Or should I say, I cannot stress how catabolic a dehydrated muscle is!

C. Creatine also is good stacked with high glycemic carbs, because they both superhydrate you. This is recommended for your post workout meal.

Q: What is the best method, dose wise, of taking creatine?

A: For creatine to produce optimal results, muscle stores must be topped off or saturated with it. To accomplish this you need to load the creatine for 5 days at 20-25 grams, spread out throughout the day into 4-5 servings. This is the quickest and in my opinion the " best " way to saturate your muscles with creatine. Following this phase, all you need is to take 5-10 grams a day to maintain your saturation levels. After this, any creatine you take will be excreted as creatinine.

Q: Do I need to take my creatine with carbohydrates to make it effective?

A: Whenever we digest carbohydrates our pancreas secretes the hormone known as insulin. The simpler the carb, the higher a burst of insulin our pancreas releases to deal with them. The good thing about insulin is that it actually drives nutrients into our muscles to assist them in recovery. If you take creatine with fast burning carbs, it will increase the absorption rate in your muscles. However, insulin is also responsible for fat storage. Therefore my suggestion to you would be to only use a sugar spike like this with breakfast and your post workout meal. This is because these are the least likely times that your body will store fat. If you are prone to storing fat or dieting then save the insulin spike for your post workout meal and just take the creatine after your normal meals. Insulin control, is a massive subject and you might consider reading 13 weeks to burning fat, to become better acquainted with it . Furthermore, if you use the spike, I would recommend drinking a protein shake also. Your muscles will get a threefold benefit from this.

a. replaced glycogen stores
b. quicker saturation of creatine
c. a first class delivery of precious amino acids

Just be careful because too much sugar can easily be stored as fat!

Q: Do I need to Cycle Creatine?

A: My recommendation is to load for 5 days, followed by a 5-10 gram maintenance dosage for 4-6 weeks. Following this, there are two particular strategies:

1. You can take one to two weeks off and then start the cycle over. Many athletes attest to receiving a better results this way.

2. However, several athletes will never come off of it. They will load it for 5 days, maintain for a few weeks and then reload again. This is increasingly becoming the more popular method of usage.

Conclusion

Creatine, like a classic novel has stood the test of time and yet so many people have picked it up without reading it. My intent in this article was to fill this void and if I answered just one of your questions than it was worth writing. If there was something that I did not cover, than feel free to ask about it in our forums. Until then, indulge yourself in perhaps the most revolutionary, natural supplement to ever hit the athletic market!

Jacob Wilson ( Trainer@abcbodybuilding.com )

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[KrYptic.x]

Posting something simliar to this every 3 - 4 months is a sure fire way to get a stickey /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Adam Knowlden]

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[pianoman88]

The latest studies confirm that as little as 2-3g of supplemental creatine per day in addition to a good diet including red meat is sufficient to maintain saturation after loading in weight trained individuals. It also finds that there's about a 20-30day washout period for Creatine to return to baseline levels.

Preen, D., B. Dawson, C. Goodman, J. Beilby, and S. Ching.
Int. J. Sport Nutr. Exerc. Metabol. 13:97-111. 2003.

The study basically says that taking 10g or more when already loaded and saturated is a waste of money. In this case, like many others, more is not better.

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[pianoman88]

"On lifting days, take 5 grams in the morning and 5 grams post workout."

Why would one take 2 5g doses in the same day if we know it takes 30 days for creatine to be washed out. It's not like your creatine levels are used up or metabolized just hours after ingestion. The same study even observed higher than baseline levels of Creatine even at 6 weeks after last dosage! Unless this science is flat out wrong, it would make no sense to take 2 doses per day after one has completed the loading phase.

[pianoman88]

I'd also like to see some citing for the study showing that 10g is needed to maintain intramuscular stores. In fact the only place I've read that 10g is needed is on the back of some MuscleTech container or in one of their ads.

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[Steel Warrior]

Do you guys think more creatine will be used depending on intensity and duration of your workouts? Just something I have never heard asked. And if so how would you know the exact ammount you need?

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[pianoman88]

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Sounds like that's where you get a lot of your information. /forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

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Man, I hope you're kidding, right? Surely a mod wouldn't putting a member down like that???

Here are a couple references, one of them I already gave in the first post:

1. Preen, D., B. Dawson, C. Goodman, J. Beilby, and S. Ching. Creatine supplementation: A comparsion of loading and maintenance protocols on creatine uptake by human skeletal muscle. Int. J. Sport Nutr. Exerc. Metabol. 13:97-111. 2003

2. E. Rawson, A. Persky, T Price, and P. Clarkson. Effects of Repeated Creatine Supplementation on Muscle, Plasma, And Urine Creatine Levels. J. Strength and Cond. Research, 18(1), 162-167. 2004

I have at least 30 more references that I'd rather not have to type out. I've gotta eat something now.

BTW, I'd love to see 2-3 references of RECENT studies proving that 10g is the minimum needed for maintenance. This is in fact the argument, right?

Not trying to show any disrespect or question your knowledge, but perhaps it's based on some older studies.
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[barkle]

Not that I agree with pianoman, but here's the study that he posted and the link where I found it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&amp;db=PubMed&amp;list_uids=126604 09&amp;dopt=Abstract


Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2003 Mar;13(1):97-111. Related Articles, Links


Creatine supplementation: a comparison of loading and maintenance protocols on creatine uptake by human skeletal muscle.

Preen D, Dawson B, Goodman C, Beilby J, Ching S.

Department of Human Movement and Exercise Science at The University of Western Australia, Crawley, W.A., Australia, 6009.

The purposes of this investigation were first to determine the impact of 3 different creatine (Cr) loading procedures on skeletal muscle total Cr (TCr) accumulation and, second, to evaluate the effectiveness of 2 maintenance regimes on retaining intramuscular TCr stores, in the 6 weeks following a 5-day Cr loading program (20 g x day(-1). Eighteen physically active male subjects were divided into 3 equal groups and administered either: (a) Cr (4 x 5 g x day(-1) x 5 days), (b) Glucose+Cr (1 g x (-1) of body mass twice per day), or (c) Cr in conjunction with 60 min of daily muscular (repeated-sprint) exercise. Following the 5-day loading period, subjects were reassigned to 3 maintenance groups and ingested either 0 g x day(-1), 2 g. day(-1) or 5 g x day(-1) of Cr for a period of 6 weeks. Muscle biopsy samples (vastus lateralis) were taken pre- and post-loading as well as post-maintenance and analyzed for skeletal muscle ATP, phosphocreatine (PCr), Cr, and TCr concentrations. Twenty-four hour urine samples were collected for each of the loading days and last 2 maintenance days, and used to determine whole body Cr retention. Post-loading TCr stores were significantly (p &lt;.05) increased in all treatment conditions. The Glucose+Cr condition produced a greater elevation (p &lt;.05) in TCr concentrations (25%) than the Cr Only (16%) or Exercise+Cr (18%) groups. Following the maintenance period, muscle TCr stores were still similar to post-loading values for both the 2 g x day(-1) and 5 g x day(-1) conditions. Intramuscular TCr values for the 0 g x day(-1) condition were significantly lower than the other conditions after the 6-week period. Although not significantly different from pre-loading concentrations, muscle TCr for the 0 g x day(-1) group had not fully returned to baseline levels at 6 weeks post-loading. The data suggests that Glucose+Cr (but with a much smaller glucose intake than currently accepted) is potentially the most effective means of elevating TCr accumulation in human skeletal muscle. Furthermore, after 5 days of Cr loading, elevated muscle TCr concentrations can be maintained by the ingestion of small daily Cr doses (2-5 g) for a period of 6 weeks and that TCr concentrations may take longer than currently accepted to return to baseline values after such a Cr loading regime.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

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[CoLDTuRKeY]

Do you realize that you will probably cut the number of posts in the forum by a good 1/3? Haha j/k. Nice posts OS and Yu. Hopefully this takes care of a lot of questions.

[British Bulldog]

I wish the mods would provide a little more evidence when it comes to backing up their claims on a supplement. /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I just don't know who to believe any more, Yu Yevon or the back of a CellTech tub? /forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[a-folov]

Psh, a paltry 1163 references, Yu? Surely, you can do better than that. /forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[pianoman88]

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Man, I hope you're kidding, right? Surely a mod wouldn't putting a member down like that???


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Watch your tone. I'm not putting you down, I'm putting down your information.

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Dude, I didn't intend to have a "tone" I just can't believe a mod would imply that I look to a MUSCLETECH bottle for my scientific support. There was surely a more tactful way to put down where you think my information comes from. This is a solid, respectable forum. To me that was kind of a cheap shot, not to mention entirely inaccurate. I've never bought a product from them in my life! That doesn't mean I've never read the crap they boast in ads and on their containers. I guess you were kidding, it wasn't clear...sorry for the possible misinterpretation /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Anyways, man I hope I am wrong. I would love to scoop out a little more creatine and get more performance and results. Honestly, I can't tell the difference since I dropped my dose a few weeks back.

Many of these studies we read use 5g doses as a matter of tradition or standard, NOT because it's the dose required to maintain saturation. Once your saturated that's pretty much it, 2g or 20g won't make a difference in performance.

Many of the studies were using 20+ grams of creatine and getting the expected result, but could the same results been achieved using 10g or even 5g after loading phase? I definitely agree that 20g of creatine will give you results, that's a no-brainer, but is it proportionately better results than 3-5g? That's what I'm trying to find out... The only studies I've read involving benefits of super high doses (20-30g daily) is the particapants became saturated much faster than those using lower doses.

Right now I'm looking at 54 references that I would love to take the time and type out. They're written on actual physical paper, so there's no way I can copy and paste them onto here. I know I don't have 1000 refereneces, but none of my 20 use a rat /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I hope all who read this know I'm not trying to discount anyone's knowledge, I'm just trying to present both sides of the coin so we can decide what's the best. Maybe it depends on the indidual as well. I know bodymass has a lot to do with the dose you should use, in fact, some guys claim to be creatine "non-responders", so who knows. Thanks for all your replies YU! Let me know what you think.

[CRaVe]

i am wondering since i am still young just turned 16 if i shouldnt take it even tho my body is developed it aint fully developed yet

[Adam Knowlden]

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I just can't believe a mod would imply that I look to a MUSCLETECH bottle for my scientific support.

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What do you keep crying about that! You were the one who claimed that of Yu!

From one of your original posts,

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I'd also like to see some citing for the study showing that 10g is needed to maintain intramuscular stores. In fact the only place I've read that 10g is needed is on the back of some MuscleTech container or in one of their ads.

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So quit bellyaching.

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Dude, I didn't intend to have a "tone"

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You've got a tone now, and it needs to stop.

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There was surely a more tactful way to put down where you think my information comes from.

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That was your idea, not Yu's.

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know I don't have 1000 refereneces, but none of my 20 use a rat

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Look who's calling the kettle black.

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They're written on actual physical paper, so there's no way I can copy and paste them onto here. I know I don't have 1000 refereneces, but none of my 20 use a rat

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LOL! Nice cop out. All you did was regurgitate a article from a unscientific bbing site.

And the rat statement shows you know nothing about how actual lab work is conducted. You are no longer allowed in this thread, due to your ignorance of how science works, and your cry baby attitude.

[President Wilson]

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And the rat statement shows you know nothing about how actual lab work is conducted.

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True statement

[Fireproof]

I really don't understand why the debate in the first place. Pure creatine monohydrate is dirt cheap these days, so why not just take 10g per day for maintenance and be done with it? /forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif You'll be sure your stores are topped off, regardless of your bodyweight, and if a few grams "spill over" and go wasted...big deal.

[UmCanez]

Ive just read your article on "Creatine" and ive got alots on the dos and donts,but now what brand of Creatine is recommended by bodybuilders?????
theres too many to choose from and i dont to waste monmey on a busted brand!!

[mattbrye]

LMAO ahahahahahahaa...Yu, i cant believe you just posted over 1000 refrences to prove your point....thats awesome.

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[BigJim]

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If necessary, I'll post 1000 more. /forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

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Please no more!!! my scroll button is already broken! /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[CoLDTuRKeY]

Haha yeah I think my temp internet folder just went for an overload.

Hey FP how much do you spend on average for however much of a supply of creatine?

[President Wilson]

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LMAO ahahahahahahaa...Yu, i cant believe you just posted over 1000 refrences to prove your point....thats awesome.

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Yu is a walking reference. Talk to him for 5 minutes about the subject and he can cite study after study off the top of his head! The man is insane! And a true scientist

[mattbrye]

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LMAO ahahahahahahaa...Yu, i cant believe you just posted over 1000 refrences to prove your point....thats awesome.

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Yu is a walking reference. Talk to him for 5 minutes about the subject and he can cite study after study off the top of his head! The man is insane! And a true scientist

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Which is why i stuck with this site, theres proof to wuts being said, and hardwork and time put into the methods and info given by the mods on the site.

[Jesse44]

Sweet thanks for the info

[respa]

Amazing. Over 1100 references.

[Draka49]

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I weigh over 260 pounds, do you think I need the same amount of creatine as someone who weighs 130

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/forum/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
oh................my........................gosh.

Did i read that right??

I believe my eyes literally bulged out. At 5'10/11........

**** man! u da man!

[Big MatT]

For the past week i've been working out twice a day, with 2 PWO shakes...I think i'm going to quit after this week though, as school is almost over and it's cutting into my school work too much, but anyways, i'm just curious...when working out twice a day, when should you take your creatine? After the first WO? The second one? Or divide up your 5-10 grams into two doses taken after each WO?

[OUTLAW20SICX]

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LMAO ahahahahahahaa...Yu, i cant believe you just posted over 1000 refrences to prove your point....thats awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yu is a walking reference. Talk to him for 5 minutes about the subject and he can cite study after study off the top of his head! The man is insane! And a true scientist

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why i stuck with this site, theres proof to wuts being said, and hardwork and time put into the methods and info given by the mods on the site.

[/ QUOTE ]
ditto
i came here once and never left

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[jason213]

Hey Yu, Do you think you could atleast post a study reference or something to back up your creatine thoughts? /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Seriously though, I just copied and pasted all 1100 references into Word so I can e-mail them to someone next time they try telling me how bad creatine is.

[Carrot Stick]

lol...WOW! that is pretty **** incredible, extremely impressed. but how long did that take u to do lol.

also to my question, i have recently heard of a "newish" creatine product called Kre-alkalyn(not positive of spelling at the moment) and supposedly it is stable in liquid and will not ever breakdown into creatinine. it is supposed to be way more effective b/c of this, and i was just curious about this new product. plz post your thoughts and knowledge of this product...thx alot /forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Switchfoot is awsome!

[NoMuscle]

Great info! I just starting lifting and excersise and ABCbodybuilding.com has given me so much info!

I will be buying creatine over the weekend and I too, dont know which brand to buy. Any recommendations?

I also workout 4-5 days a week so let me get this straight.... First I load up take 20-25grams a day for 5 days? Then after 5 days I do 10grams a day for 2 weeks? Then adter the 2 weeks I start the loading process all over again?

[Jimster]

But any brand that has "Creapure" label on it it. Prolab 1kg bins are priced well.

[President Wilson]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Yu, Do you think you could atleast post a study reference or something to back up your creatine thoughts? /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking the same thing /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[Adam Knowlden]

Thanks for sharing your insights Yu!

No doubt you've cleared up tons of questions on the topic of creatine!

[ImmortalDragon]

What does it mean by 'loading' creatine?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[body4god]

When on creatine will i find myself more thirsty or basically will it be easier to drink extra water? I already drink a good amount of water a day and find it get much more in. Will i be able to tolerate getting more down easier?


Also will i appear less cut?

[Trench]

Thanks for the info everyone. I've been lifting all natural for almost 4 years. I wanted to try Creatine, now I think i will. hats off to an incredible site packed with info...

[PoppinFresh]

yeah, im thinking i should start on it soon too. only i dont wanna look all bloated ;p

[jason213]

^It's not that bad.

[Fireproof]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, im thinking i should start on it soon too. only i dont wanna look all bloated ;p

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you read any of this thread? /forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Creatine won't bloat you - it pulls water into the muscles, NOT subcutaneously, so you won't see bloating. You will weigh a few more pounds, but the water is retained in the muscles, so the only change in appearance will be...fuller muscles. /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Adam Knowlden]

Right on FP!

[fdsa]

so in the 1st 5 days i take creatine 4 times a day but dose it matter if im not working out on one of those days?

[Adam Knowlden]

No it does not matter, continue to load the whole time, and continue to take creatine on your off days.

[fdsa]

ok thanks

[danelbe]

this question is for oldschool.... are there any long-term effects of creatine that i should be worried about before i start taking it?

[MastaNP15]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For the past week i've been working out twice a day, with 2 PWO shakes...I think i'm going to quit after this week though, as school is almost over and it's cutting into my school work too much, but anyways, i'm just curious...when working out twice a day, when should you take your creatine? After the first WO? The second one? Or divide up your 5-10 grams into two doses taken after each WO?

[/ QUOTE ]

Take 5 grams after each workout! /forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a basketball player and this summer I will be working out all the time. I will be lifting weights 4 times a week, but I will be training other stuff like plyometrics, conditioning and a lot of basketball. So I will be training like 2-3 times a day. Will 5 grams be enough for one day on non lifting days? Lets say I've had an intense shooting session or training plyometrics and I've trained several hours in one day, should I perhaps take 5 extra grams of creatine after one of my workouts even though it's a non lifting day??

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[danelbe]

I play sports for my highschool and i am interested in taking creatine. I want to gain muscle mass, but i do not want to gain a lot of weight. I play football in the fall, so weight is not a problem. However, i wrestle in the winter, and need to keep my weight down. Is creatine right for me? is it possible to take creatine and keep my weight down?

[Qwazydogg]

[ QUOTE ]
We do not at all mind beginner questions, but I've seen tons of very basic questions lately regarding creatine. Please read this first before asking your question about creatine. /forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

First here is an exerpt from Yu Yevon:

[ QUOTE ]
Load for 5 days by taking 20-25 grams a day. Then maintain for 4-6 weeks with 5-10 grams a day. On lifting days, take 5 grams in the morning and 5 grams post workout. On non lifting days, take 5 grams in the morning only. Only take creatine with a simple sugar post workout, and not at any other time. Also, scoop the creatine directly into your mouth and swallow it with water due to creatines instability in water.

[/ QUOTE ]

And here is about 90% of creatine questions answered:

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue"> Creatine Myth and Facts + What the Hell Creatine Really Is
by Jacob Wilson

I can't help but shake my head whenever I hear gym morons discuss creatine. It has become the ultimate " tall tail " in bodybuilding today. And the myths and stories concerning this supplement, become more and more preposterous as the years go by. The plain fact of the matter is that most people who take creatine, do not even know what it is, or exactly how our bodies use it. I find this puzzling, because I do not believe in ever taking supplements that I do not fully understand. After you finish reading this article, the myths and tall tales concerning creatine will be completely dissolved and like myself, you will shake your head when rookies in the gym, cluelessly discuss the effects of this supplement.

Questions and Answers: I receive at least a handful of letters a day concerning creatine. I will post the most frequently asked of those below.

Q: Is Creatine a Steroid?

A: I would like to dispel this myth by giving you the definition of what an anabolic steroid is. These are synthetic versions of the male hormone testosterone. Creatine, as you will see below is not. Basically anyone who says this should immediately be labeled a gymbecile.

Q: What is Creatine?

A: First, let me emphasize that our bodies already produce creatine naturally. Did you ever watch the transformers when you were a kid? Well if not, there were groups of robots called " combiners. " They would join together and form an even larger and more massive robot, crushing everything in their paths! Our liver does the same thing with the three amino acids, Arginine, Glycine and Methionine. It combines them to form creatine, much like the constructicons combined to form devistator! Ok so that was a lame example, but it explains the process quite nicely.

That being said, it is also important to understand that over 95 percent of this substance is found in our muscles. With the remainder being stored in our brain, heart and other parts of our bodies.

Q: The clerk at my local sporting goods store, explained to me, that when your body runs out of food at night, your muscles can take the creatine in them and use it to fuel their growth.

A: I don't believe I will even waste my time dispelling his explanation. How moronic can you get? My real question is, where do these people get there information from? I actually have a theory on this very matter. I believe, that there is a moronic website that is the complete opposite of abcbbodybuilding. I've tried to crack the code, but gymmorons.com just didn't work. Perhaps they are trying to hide their identity? But regardless of my theory, the guy is dead wrong!

Q: What exactly does creatine do?

A: I will break down the uses of this supplement into 4 sections.

1. Creatine works mainly to increase our Creatine Phosphate System

This is a very difficult concept to understand. And what I am going to do, here is place an excerpt from my article on energy systems in here. It will explain how our body's use energy, and how creatine fits into this!

The Three Energy Systems

What we will now discuss is how our muscles are fueled to contract in virtually every situation possible. You see, a different energy system is used for a heavy set of 4 repetitions then compared to a set of 12 repetitions. Each of these is linked with a particular muscle fiber type. If you can manipulate the energy system, then you can drastically increase muscle mass.

Firstly I need to emphasize that our muscle fibers store ATP. The problem is that we only have enough to fuel contractions for about 3 seconds, and even in the most well trained bodybuilder that supply can only last about 5-6 seconds. So what is the point of having such a low amount of stored energy? It's essentially designed to give you a quick burst. You name the sport( barring chess ) and every athlete will tell you the benefits of being able to call on a quick burst of energy! What becomes painfully obvious at this point is that 3 seconds will not power 90-99 percent of traditional bodybuilding sets. Therefore our body must have a way of producing more energy to sustain contractions! This is where the 3 fueling systems come into play!

note: again, all three energy system's function is to produce ATP. These processes dominantly take place in the mitochondria( about 95 percent of the ATP in your muscle stores to be exact ! ) that lie inside of the sarcoplasm of the muscle fiber. For now I will explain the energy systems, further on I will explain how to increase their proficiency!

Phosphagen System

To replenish the ATP levels quickly after the initial energy boost is used up, muscle cells contain a high-energy phosphate compound called creatine phosphate(PC). To state the obvious, this compound contains a phosphate. Your muscle cell releases enzymes that break the phosphate off of the PC molecule, then this phosphate is transferred back to the ADP to reform the high energy molecule ATP.

To recap, when your body uses ATP, it breaks one phosphate off of it which produces energy. This burst fuels contractions. What is left after a phosphate is broken off of ATP is the molecule called ADP.
Our muscle fibers contain 5 times as much creatine phosphate then it does ATP. Your cell sends out enzymes that break off the phosphate from the creatine. The Energy released from this sever and the phosphate molecule are recombined with the ADP to again form ATP. The PC system provides an additional 10 to 20 seconds of energy to allow us, as bodybuilders to continue an intense set!

A process such as this can occur in the blink of an eye, which makes it very efficient! Again, for the conscious athlete( when I say conscious, I mean one who improves this system ) this will provide a good 15-20 seconds more energy for contractions, and perhaps a bit more. You see creatine phosphate stores run out about this time. In total ATP stores and the creatine phosphate system provide about 25-30 seconds of maximum muscular contraction. This system is the powerhouse for extremely high intensity activities. If it is weak then you will have a difficult time lifting heavy weights for any extended period of time. This will be extremely detrimental if your goal is to hit the denser fast twitch IIb fibers.

One way to increase your creatine stores is obvious. You can easily saturate your muscle cells with creatine by actually supplementing with it. Your body already produces it, but supplementation assists in the saturation process. You can see why this is a proven product. It literally speaks for itself in functionality, and has proven to be one of the safest substances on the shelves today! Millions have used creatine for over a decade with absolutely no side effects whatsoever. And the amount of studies to back up its safety are second to none! This is a tried and true power house. You can learn more about it by reading my article, creatine myths and facts. My recommendation is to load it for 5 days at 15-25 grams broken up into 5 grams servings per meal. This will saturate your muscles with creatine. Following this period simple maintain saturation with 5-10 grams a day. Then start the process over in about 8 weeks. On a side note, steak is also beneficial to refilling your PC stores. It to is rich in this substance!

What System is Beneficial For - It allows you to contract your muscles up to a total of 30 seconds of
intense exertion( with the ATP system )! The benefits are obvious. Anytime you lift heavy, you call on this system to back you up. If you play other explosive sports then it is also obvious. A play in football is relatively short and would rely heavily on the PC system. Hockey shifts are also relatively short, many elite teams only allow 30 seconds shifts of all out work per player. You name it: martial arts, soccer, rugby, all have the need for superior functionality of the PC system.

For more information in this regard, and further discussion on energy systems click here

2. Increases The Pump!

Creatine has been shown to super hydrate your muscles( cell volumization, it literally draws water into the muscle cells). This increases pumps dramatically! Even while on low carbs, creatine can help and maintain your pump in the weight room.

3. Increases The Reparation Process of Bodybuilding.

Muscle growth occurs, via a process known as the dehydration synthesis. What does this mean? The dehydration synthesis is the process in which larger molecules are formed. In this case we are referring to muscle protein. And this is also referred to, as of course protein synthesis.
Consequently, many journals point, to creatine actually enhancing this.

Overview:

The main function of creatine is to provide our muscles with more energy. More energy means that our muscles can contract harder therefore our body must adapt to the greater amount of stress that we put our bodies through. It super hydrates our muscles and improves protein synthesis.

Q: How exactly does Creatine Apply to An Athlete?

A: Simple, it does so by enhancing your creatine phosphate energy system. This does a number of things:

1. Increases explosion - Most athletes notice more explosiveness after utilizing this supplement
2. Allows yourself to push yourself harder and longer. This leads to not only more endurance, but also forces the body to adapt to a greater stimulus, which leads to greater gains in every area!

Note: Interestingly enough, creatine in some studies has been shown to buffer lactic acid. If this be true, then one can see how it can enhance any sport that requires one to run.

Q: What are the side effects of Creatine and in General how safe is it?
A: As stated above, creatine is not, and I repeat not a hormone. Therefore it does not have the side effects associated with any prohormone or illegal steroid.

There have been hundreds of studies done on creatine that all show that it is a safe supplement.

To further prove its safety two an a half million kilograms of creatine were consumed in the United States alone in 1999! That statistic alone speaks volumes about the safety and efficiency of this supplement! Not only that, but creatine has been the number one supplement on the market for almost a decade and no one has reported any adverse side effects from it. ( aside from the ones I listed above. )

Q: I don't workout, but do you think that creatine will build muscles and help me to lose fat?

A: No! If you don't workout I cannot imagine what supplement would help you. Creatine provides your muscles with more short term energy - but that is wasted if you do not exercise them. If you take creatine you should push yourself even harder in the gym. The idea is with more energy you should be able to workout harder. A harder workout leads to increased muscle mass.

Q: Since Creatine makes you gain weight should I not take it on a cut?

A: Yes, creatine causes your body to hold water, but that is a good thing! The fact that your muscles are super hydrated even on a cut is fantastic. I see absolutely no correlation between taking creatine and our body storing fat. If anything, creatine will assist us in maintaining more lean mass while dieting. In my mind there is no point to discontinuing the use of creatine while trying to burn fat. Except, you will want to stop taking it 2 weeks before a show, so that you are not holding water. Besides that it will only benefit you during a cut!

Q: Can I take Creatine and Protein at the same time?

A: Firstly, protein is a food product. If you couldn't take creatine and protein at the same time, then you would have to be a strict vegetarian and still you would end out consuming around 40 grams a day just from normal foods. To top this off, creatine is not much use without a significant protein intake. What is the point of pushing your muscles further than they are used to, if you are not going to provide the amino acids necessary for their repair?

Q: Which supplement is Better Creatine or Protein?

A: ( I probably get asked this question at least once a day through email.) Amino acids are the building blocks of our muscles. If you do not get enough than there is no point to working out. Creatine is an outstanding supplement, but if you have to choose from getting at least 1 gram a day of protein or getting your creatine then opt for the protein. However I do want to stress that creatine is an excellent supplement. In fact for assistance in muscular gains I would rate it second only to whey.

Q: I just got myself some creatine. Now I only started with half the dosage, because creatine fires me up and I don't want too much of a buzz in the weight room! So how should I up the dosage?

( Yes I know what you are thinking ( LOL ). I get these kinds of questions everyday though. I answer them because I was a rookie at one time too. )

A: Ummm, their are two things that come to my mind.

1. Your creatine has been spiked with caffiene or ephedrine

2. Your creatine has gone rotten and is causing you to have hallucinations ( LOL ). Or a " Buzz " before your workout.

Creatine is not and I repeat not a stimulant! It should not make you have these feelings. Read my article next month on the subject and you will see why. Until then, if your container of creatine really gives you a buzz, then. throw it away immediately!

Q: I am breaking out, is it because of the creatine?

A: ( Again ) Creatine does not effect hormone levels in any way. So the answer is no.

Q: I am a woman and I was thinking about taking creatine, but I don't want to become huge and veiny like a man.

A: If that is the case, then I would suggest that you do not eat like the " huge and veiny " men that you do not want to look like. Creatine will assist you in your workout, but only calories will make you grow. Yes, creatine is an excellent supplement for mass, but only if you are eating for mass. However creatine does make you hold water and could make you a bit bloated. If you are sensitive to those effects then don't use it.

Q: Do you feel that creatine is cheating? I want to earn my muscles the hard way and don't want to cheat to get them.

A: ( I can't stand these types of questions!!! ) Yes, you would be cheating. You would be cheating yourself out of great gains by not supplementing with it!

Q: Is there anything I can take to make creatine a more effective supplement?

A: Excellent Question!

a. The first thing I would like to emphasize is that creatine will not work if you are not properly hydrated! It relies heavily on this, so you must drink tons of water, if you want optimal results from it. Super hydrating your body will also improve your weight room pumps tremendously!

b. Have you ever heard of a stack? The definition is two supplements that when combined actually increase each others effectiveness. For example, ephedra is actually more effective at burning fat when combined with caffiene. So too is creatine when combined with glutamine. Both cell volumize, but they do so through different pathways. Together they cell volumize within and outside of our muscle cells. I cannot stress the importance of hydrated muscles. Or should I say, I cannot stress how catabolic a dehydrated muscle is!

C. Creatine also is good stacked with high glycemic carbs, because they both superhydrate you. This is recommended for your post workout meal.

Q: What is the best method, dose wise, of taking creatine?

A: For creatine to produce optimal results, muscle stores must be topped off or saturated with it. To accomplish this you need to load the creatine for 5 days at 20-25 grams, spread out throughout the day into 4-5 servings. This is the quickest and in my opinion the " best " way to saturate your muscles with creatine. Following this phase, all you need is to take 5-10 grams a day to maintain your saturation levels. After this, any creatine you take will be excreted as creatinine.

Q: Do I need to take my creatine with carbohydrates to make it effective?

A: Whenever we digest carbohydrates our pancreas secretes the hormone known as insulin. The simpler the carb, the higher a burst of insulin our pancreas releases to deal with them. The good thing about insulin is that it actually drives nutrients into our muscles to assist them in recovery. If you take creatine with fast burning carbs, it will increase the absorption rate in your muscles. However, insulin is also responsible for fat storage. Therefore my suggestion to you would be to only use a sugar spike like this with breakfast and your post workout meal. This is because these are the least likely times that your body will store fat. If you are prone to storing fat or dieting then save the insulin spike for your post workout meal and just take the creatine after your normal meals. Insulin control, is a massive subject and you might consider reading 13 weeks to burning fat, to become better acquainted with it . Furthermore, if you use the spike, I would recommend drinking a protein shake also. Your muscles will get a threefold benefit from this.

a. replaced glycogen stores
b. quicker saturation of creatine
c. a first class delivery of precious amino acids

Just be careful because too much sugar can easily be stored as fat!

Q: Do I need to Cycle Creatine?

A: My recommendation is to load for 5 days, followed by a 5-10 gram maintenance dosage for 4-6 weeks. Following this, there are two particular strategies:

1. You can take one to two weeks off and then start the cycle over. Many athletes attest to receiving a better results this way.

2. However, several athletes will never come off of it. They will load it for 5 days, maintain for a few weeks and then reload again. This is increasingly becoming the more popular method of usage.

Conclusion

Creatine, like a classic novel has stood the test of time and yet so many people have picked it up without reading it. My intent in this article was to fill this void and if I answered just one of your questions than it was worth writing. If there was something that I did not cover, than feel free to ask about it in our forums. Until then, indulge yourself in perhaps the most revolutionary, natural supplement to ever hit the athletic market!

Jacob Wilson ( Trainer@abcbodybuilding.com )

</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

This should be done with Glutamine, and protein as well.
Honestly.
Great post /forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[MastaNP15]

Thanks Yu. I'll take 10 grams everyday.
But why would plyometrics be bad? I only have to do it every 5 days so the nervous system has time to rebuild itself. And so far it has really helped increase my vertical leap and explosiveness. I thought creatine and plyometrics would be good together because they both help for explosiveness.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[MastaNP15]

I did a search for specificity, and I get your point. But are you then saying that doing anything besides basketball training would be violating the specificity hypothesis? Because then I will have to disagree with all do respect.
Having a good vertical leap is important for many aspects of the game like rebounding, jumpshots, blocking shots and a lot more. Plyometrics will only help increase my vertical leap, and then help all my skills where jumping is necessary. Many of the exercises are similar to the movements being made in basketball. And jumping is jumping no matter what.
And I didn't mean that the nervous system is breaking down, but the stretch reflex is being stressed.
And my vertical has actually increased 3 inches since I started doing my plyometrics program /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
I'm not saying that you are wrong, because I understand your point. But I just have a different opinion about it based on the results plyometrics has given me and helped improve my game.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[Dave0000]

I took creatine for about 4 weeks and noticed nice gains. I took 10 grams daily, however my water intake increased to well over a gallon and a half and this in turn made me not hungry. I could barely eat anything so I went off of it. I am looking to try it again and this time I was thinking of cutting the dosage in half (5 grams daily) and trying a different brand. Anyone think this will be enough (with no loading period) to see nice gains? I weigh about 150 pounds....

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[MastaNP15]

[ QUOTE ]
Training must be task specific in order to get the greatest effect of practice. However, if training has only 4% generality, then that may be very beneficial for elite athletes. 4% could be the difference between second place and first. However, at the sub-elite level, 4% isn't even noticeable.

[/ QUOTE ]
If plyometrics will help me improve my game 4%, it's worth it to me. Of all the training I do, plyometrics covers about 4% so I'll get what I work for. But if I keep getting better results from plyometrics, it might be worth more then 4%. Plus I believe 4% can be the difference between first and second at the sub-elite level too.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Plyometrics will only help increase my vertical leap


[/ QUOTE ]

Don't be so sure of that. /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

From my own results, and from the results from others that I know, I feel confident that a combination of plyometrics and weightlifting is one of the best ways to increase explosiveness and vertical leap.
I have read books and studies that support this, but I will post something i copied from a site I found.


Vertical jump performance has been shown to respond to training which involves the athlete performing SSC movements with a stretch load greater and more rapid than to which they are accustomed. These activities have been termed plyometrics and have been found, in a number of studies, to be effective for increasing jumping ability (Adams, et al., 1992; Clutch, et al., 1983; Schmidtbleicher, et al., 1988; Wilson, et al., 1993). Plyometric training results in an increase in the overall neural stimulation of the muscle and thus force output, however, qualitative changes are also apparent. In subjects unaccustomed to intense SSC loads, there is a reduction in EMG activity starting 50-100 ms before ground contact and lasting for 100-200 ms (Schmidtbleicher, et al., 1988). Gollhofer (1987) has attributed this to a protective mechanism by the golgi tendon organ reflex acting during sudden, intense stretch loads to reduce the tension in the tendomuscular unit during the force peak of the SSC. After a period of plyometric training the inhibitory effects are reduced, termed disinhibition, and increased SSC performance results (Schmidtbleicher, et al., 1988).

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And jumping is jumping no matter what.

[/ QUOTE ]

This could not be more false!

You say that Carl Lewis' jumps:

[image]http://www.ananova.com/images/web/51409.jpg[/qoute]

Are the same as Kobe's jumps:

There are different motor programs operating in both instances, therefore completely different afferent pathways are being initiated.

A jump is not a jump is not a jump!

[/ QUOTE ]

You are absolotely correct about this, and I made a bad mistake by saying that. But The plyometrics program I use is specially designed for basketball because several of the exercises are very similar to the jumps and movements being made on the basketball court.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And my vertical has actually increased 3 inches since I started doing my plyometrics program

[/ QUOTE ]
How many times have you practiced your vertical though? There is a learning curve you know.

[/ QUOTE ]

My way of "practicing" my vertical is by doing plyometrics and lifting weights. Last summer I actually tried a jumping program that focused on a concept they called "habitual jumping". They believed that by jumping over and over again, your body would get so used to jumping and it would become natural to you like walking, and your vertical would increase. It was a 15 week program, and it got VERY hard as the weeks passed by, because you kept increasing the reps every week. I would have to do 125 leap-ups in one set when it got really challenging, and this was way harder than you can imagine. But because of the amount of reps, I could not jump as high as I could so I would last out the set. I would collapse after each set because I was so winded. I decided to quit after 12 weeks because it gave me NO results. This is because I was mainly working the slow twitch muscles, witch is not what you want if you want to explode off the ground and jump as high as possible.
They made their idea of "habitual jumping" sound convincing, but they obviously had no scientific evidence that it works.
That's why plyometrics focuses on quality and not quantity. Every jump has to be as explosive and high as possible. This will help your vertical a lot more then just "practicing" jumping. I don't think that's what you meant by practicing my vertical though, but I just thought I'd share the story to show that I have experienced different ways of trying to improve my vertical, and now I have found what has been the most effective for me so far.

[MastaNP15]

I just have to add that I think the whole reason for this discussion is that I believe that plyometrics will help my vertical, and you don't. Surely you understand that increasing your vertical is very important and will help a lot for a basketball player. So if you don't think plyometrics will help, what do you think would be the best way to increase a vertical? If you say that shooting jumpshots, or jumping high to get rebounds will help for those skills, that's only true to a certain point. You see I have been jumping up for shots, rebounds, lyups/dunking, blocking shots my entire life! My body is so used to it that my vertical will increase very slowly by doing this. I have to shock my body so it will have to react faster. Just like when you lift weights, you can't use the same routine every time for your entire life, you need shocking methods to shock your body to extra growth. And now I have gotten to the point where I need this "shock" to increase my vertical. That's why I use plyometrics because my body is not as used to that type of jumping training, and will have to adapt faster.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[Tical]

How long does it take for creatine to go bad?

I broke the seal on the container about 8 months ago and just started taking it again recently.

The expiry date says 05/05 so I didn't see any problem.

But tommorow is my last loading day and I've actually lost some weight. (I'm currently cutting tho)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[Burton]

Yu said: [ QUOTE ]
.....Also, tell your coach or trainer not to use plyometrics, they are violating the specificity hypothesis and that will only detract from your basketball training. /forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

specificity hypothesis? I have not heard of this, and actually, I am not clear on what plyometrics are....I looked around but did not find what I was looking for. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Burton

[President Wilson]

Specificity is a concept in which the underlying attributes of a skill or task, are viewed as specific to that skill or task and not transferable( task-specific).

In this context an attribute is the underlying capacity within an individual which allows for the expression of skill ( these are presently viewed as genetically pre disposed, and typically uneffected by practice).

The hypothesis is simply that your greatest gains will come by practicing the criterion task. For example. If you want to work on balance on a beam, you need to work on balance on the beam by practicing balance on the beam. Practicing on a stabilometer, or some other form of device will yield non significant transference.

Specificity is essentially opposed to Generality, which views attributes such as balance as general and transferable.

The statistical evidence highly supports Henry's Specificity hypothesis.

And yes, a search in training will yield much on the subject

[Burton]

Thanks Yu and Pres. I guess I missed it the first time throught the thread. I think my eyes started to gloss over after reading all of Yu's refernces. /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Also, I'd like to say thanks to you guys (and all who contribute) for all your work in creating and maintaining this website. Without blowing too much smoke here, let me just say that it is outsanding! It has turn my understanding about BB upside-down! Thanks again,
Burton

[President Wilson]

Burton,

thank you as well friend /forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[zap]

I would also like to shout out a big thanks not only to the moderators, police force etc. but also just to the normal members... I am only just starting a cut on monday or tuesday (my first one) but if it were not for this website i would proabably still be sitting on the couch wondering why i have a fat where other people have muscle... I mean i don't have a six pack like other people Ive Got The Whole Keg!! /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

But really i just want to give every last person on this website a big thanks for everything from giving me articles to just answering my dumb questions (even when you know they have been answered before)up until now and for the future as i know i will be needing more help.

[arne]

Post deleted by arne

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[Ice9rg570]

Someone else in this thread asked this question, but there was no reply to it. I am 16 (almost 17) and i was wondering if I should not take it because i am still growing. It seems like it would be fine, but I want to make sure. Also it has been mentioned several times in this thread that you should drink even more water when on creatine, but how much? 1 gallon? 1 1/2? 2 gallons? Also what brand do you guys recommend? I read this question in this thread too, but I missed the answer. Lastly the original article said it would be good to take protein, creatine and eat sugar after you workout. Is that right? And how long after you workout? Right away?
Sorry if these were already answered, but I didn't see them. thanks guys for all the info and the article!

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[Adam Knowlden]

Hey bro as Joe said, we've covered all of those questions in this thread. The other questions can be found in this forum in the other sticky entitled nutrition FAQ.

[on_a_goal]

what kind of creatine is good to take

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[CoLDTuRKeY]

Haha Yu I can almost see you beating your sizeable head on your desk /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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[CheezitMan22]

Yu, how do i take creatine and what's the best brand and type? /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

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[Dan V]

Just thought I would make a suggestion about the maintainence phase: perhaps maintaining saturation has more to do with the frequency of the dosing rather than the actual size of the dose itself? For example, taking 3g twice a day could be more effective than taking 5g once a day, and equally as effective as taking 5g twice a day. I heard that some studies show that most of the creatine you ingest is just excreted because your body simply can't absorb much creatine at a time (although I haven't actually taken the time to read any of them). I know in the end it really doesn't make a difference - creatine is dirt cheap, but I'd like to hear Yu's thoughts on this.

[CheezitMan22]

Well if you only take 3-5 grams once or twice a day, you're not really loading, are you? Thats barely even maintainance. I'm sure 20-25 grams throughout 4-5 times a day is a rule for a reason.

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[Imy85]

I jus checked out what Men's Health Forums thought about creatine (purely for the humour value, I assure you) and ppl were sayin they felt angry and violent after it!?! What the hell are they on about?! Have any of you beasts felt the urge to push a wall down after takin i?

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[Adam Knowlden]

Its all in their head.

[President Wilson]

[ QUOTE ]
I jus checked out what Men's Health

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats the best disclaimer, and you know something hillarious will follow everytime

[MC-JayCore]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I jus checked out what Men's Health

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats the best disclaimer, and you know something hillarious will follow everytime

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahaha... nice one Prez.

[Adam Knowlden]

lol /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Imy85]

Someone once asked about tricep exercises in the Mens' Health forums and someone posted a link to this site. So thas how I found out about ABC. How ironic!

This site has helped me so much, seriously when I first came to this site I must have spent a good 2-3 hrs. It was really eye-opening stuff when you think the most technical term I had heard was tricep.

Jus wanna thank you guys for the site. You help loads of ppl around the world both with the information and your exmaple. We all have great respect for you and we look to you for inspiration. And that is about as much a$$ kissin I can do for one day.

[Kruton]

I have a concern I would like to get some opinions that everyone on this site would have a particular experience in. It is in regards to life so it does not belong in this thread but I do not have permission to post in the one it belongs in. The question is in regards to life, religion, and bodybuilding. So I take it I am just hosed until I can post 150 times. Come on now, I understand the respect one must gain before putting up a bunch of ludicrous mumbo jumbo on your forum. I don’t believe you are letting all your resources reach those that may need advice on whether or not to load creatine, let alone start the only relationship that matters in this life, the one with God.
Trent

I no longer count on my own goodness or my ability to obey God's law, but I trust Christ to save me.
Philippians 3:9a NLT

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[rznboi]

OK guys, I just started using creatine three days ago. I am in my loading phase right now but instead of retaining water, I seem to piss it all out.

I can almost count for every cup I drink, it all comes out half an hour later. I'm not sure if this is just my body getting used to the creatine or something else.

Did anyone else have this problem when starting?

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[Cool Abe]

Hi, I have an interesting question about creatine and weight gain:

If start consuming creatine (5 grs. per day) along with proper nutrition, training, and rest, then I stop consuming it when I have reached my desired weight increase, will I lose the gains in weight derived from consuming creatine even if I continue working out, eating well, and consuming protein?

Thank you.
Abraham Lopez

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[rznboi]

Jo Yu,

You say it is expected, meaning what? That it will go away in a couple days when my body gets used to it.

Or is that what taking creatine does for you? (makes you piss a lot so you have to drink a lot which is why they say you need to drink gallon plus a day) If so, then how does that make you retain water weight in any way

[Cool Abe]

[ QUOTE ]
You will lose water weight, but nothing more.

Please read this whole thread, this has been discussed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have read the thread on its entirety but I couldn't find it.

This is only my doubt - Will I lose all the weight I gained from creatine if I stop consuming it?

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[rznboi]

So you are saying that creatine makes you piss more eh.

It seems that for every glass of water i drink, an equal or greater portion comes out within half an hour. I am going about 10-12 times a day at least up from about 5-6. Are you sure that is normal??

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[rznboi]

well, i never!

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[CheezitMan22]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
well, i never!

[/ QUOTE ]

Excuse me?

[/ QUOTE ]

Great question, obviously it's never been answered before.

[ZachE84]

Nice post Yu. Its amazing how big of a role creatine plays in our body. I have seen countless studies which conlcude creatine and precursors help such diseases as ALS, MD, and many types of heart conditions. Its tempting me to stop cycling creatine and start taking 5g's a day, everyday.

[SonOfGonad]

The first time I cycled creatine I experienced a number of negative side effects. My bowel movements were more diarrea than normal stool, and I excreeted what can only be described as a slimy snot-like substance. Very gross but true! I experienced a higher incidence of erratic and missed heart beats while resting, as well. After a week or two, I stopped supplementing creatine on behalf of the side effects.

To what extent do you think the creatine caused these side effects? Stress could have played a major role in my conditions, since I was adapting to my first year in college, far away from home. I noticed right away that my conditions vanished after stopping creatine supplementation. I am considering adding creatine to my diet again in the next few months, but I would like your expert diagnosis/opinion regarding whether or not I should supplement creatine again. Thanks!


-Dave

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[SonOfGonad]

Thank you for the quick response!

I am positive that the conditions dropped from a high incidence rate to a low incidence rate after halting supplementation. I used ON's creatine, but I was also taking ON vanilla-flavored whey mixed with dextrose post-workout. I doubt any of these supplements would cause such an intestinal stir as I received. /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Perhaps a psychological association with the conditions? Doubtful, as I was not anxious about taking creatine.

Any ideas on what caused it?

Thanks!


-Dave


edit: Changed wording structure for clarity.

[Crombie]

My guess, creatine did not cause this directly, but likely in addition to stress you were probably severely dehydrated from not drinking enough water while taking the creatine. Without exact information it is really hard to say what occurred.

Exact information such as your precise diet during that time, how much different your diet was from home, how far away from home you were ie: was your diet regionally different from what you were used to, whether you drank alcohol at all (being the first year of college), how much water you drank, how often you ate, how often you drank water, etc. Creatine would not cause any of those symptoms, and if it did I imagine there would be many studies about said symptoms and it would be gone by now.

Now with the stress part I am just throwing out a wild guess here, but perhaps did you mention your symptoms to someone, tell them you were on creatine, and they flipped out saying it was ALL CREATINE'S FAULT!?!?

If that were the case, and your issue's were mainly stress caused then placing the blame on creatine may have helped the symptoms go away when you got rid of the "cause" of the problems. These are all just idea's, but really - there is no way to know what was going on then, and not only that there is no way anyone can really diagnose a past event over a message board. The best that can be offered are possible answers.

Edit: And I would add that I personally think it would be fine to supplement with creatine again, and when you do, drink lot's of water!

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[ZachE84]

Actually whey can cause such problems.

[regg]

Creatine is suppose to help hold water right? thats hard to believe when i piss like 1000 times a day!

[Crombie]

How fast are you drinking the water? I am pretty certain one of the articles, or in the past one of the mods, mentioned that if you drink water too fast it trigger's your need to urinate almost immediately. That same article, or message, also indicated to just slowly sip.

I truly tried to search this, but you really do not want to know what I found in google. There are also medical conditions that can cause you to frequently urinate such as diabetes.

[regg]

I drink water really fast, pretty much any liquid i have, i chug

[Crombie]

Change to a sip over a longer amount of time, and that could help with the pissing issue. Once you get to a certain amount of water, though, you will be going like every 20 minutes to a half hour.

[regg]

lets hope so... thanks alot

[CheezitMan22]

I did 2 cycles of creatine, about 4-6 weeks apart, and both times, i got nothing. Am i a non responder, or did it just not work the first couple times?

I used ON's creatine monohydrate, i loaded and maintained the ways you told me. Worth it to re-try this?

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[CheezitMan22]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I did 2 cycles of creatine, about 4-6 weeks apart, and both times, i got nothing. Am i a non responder, or did it just not work the first couple times?

I used ON's creatine monohydrate, i loaded and maintained the ways you told me. Worth it to re-try this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you sure you didn't notice anything? Try getting a different brand, load and be sure to maintain properly. After 4 weeks, rather than cycling off, reload for another 4-6 weeks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, im pretty sure i didnt. I gained some weight and some strength, just a bit, but when i came off, i never lost any strength or weight. Hrmm...
Thanks alot! /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif Any brands you reccomend besides ON? /forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Soulstones]

I heard that creatine is bad for your liver if you keep using it

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[Soulstones]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I heard that creatine is bad for your liver if you keep using it

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you read ANY of this thread?

Creatine is not damaging to the liver, in fact, it's PRODUCED by the liver. /forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


I said that I just heard that somewhere, and wanted to make sure.
I have a question also about loading/reloading...im up to 6 weeks on creatine; ive reached the point where Im deciding to either take a week off then reload or just "reload" (this i dont understand) ... I dont really want to off it now because its summer and I have the luxury of hitting the gym 6 days a week, that and I want to get as big as possible come September. The part I dont understand is if I plan on continuing my creatine 5-10g per day do I have 5 days where I take 20-25g per day?

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[Soulstones]

Alright thanks, I have ADD and I get bored with reading long posts, thus most ending paragraphs dont get read by me, o well

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[Imy85]

I've jus bought some MuscleTech creatine and have never used creatine yet, but am hoping to do so starting from tmrw (which I'm very excited about). Now the label on this suggests I should:

"mix two scoops (98.5g) of CELL-Tech with 375ml of water"

and this counts as 1 serving. The label states 10g of creatine in every serving and 2 servings to be taken a day. This obviously equals 20g of creatine a day. The label obviously believes this is sufficient.

However, I was told that this MuscleTech creatine is what is known as a delivery system. Could someone please explain to me what this is, and if this is worse than taking pure creatine monohydrate.

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[Imy85]

Thanks alot Yu. It's worrying how little workers in fitness shops know! I was gonna actually buy CreaPure but I was advised to get the Cell-Tech. Why oh why didn't I come here before buying it!

[Imy85]

If the Cell-Tech causes an insulin spike after taking it, why does it recommend I take it in the morning? Who are the these ppl who make it!!

I think Yu should start making his own range.

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[Steel Warrior]

I've been hearing alot of fuss about Creatine causing liver problems from my friends lately due to a stupid kid working at the supplment shop who takes some new supplement, Kre-Alkalyn I beleive is it. Supossidly he's telling them that Creatine has such a little ammount absorbed and a ton of it is excreted as creatinine and causing liver damage. This sounds pretty ignorant to me and I have heard this statement before by know it all nurses too... So I ask once and for all what is an undeniable, logical answer to dispell their myths instantly?

[Crombie]

Ask them this question: "What studies have shown that creatine causes liver damage? If you could let me know since I would really like to look into this."

Of course they will be unable to produce any such study, and if they start to quibble just take them down with, "So, really, you have no concrete information on what you are saying, and have nothing to base your beliefs on? Nice..."

Furthermore you can add to your little supplement shop kid from nice, "...so really what you are trying to do is sell me more supplements then by spreading a false rumor - well let's call it what it is a LIE - correct?"

[Imy85]

Lols I've jus started takin creatine a few days ago n my mum thought "powder therefore steroid!" Hahah, I was jus taking a dose a few hrs ago n I jus happened to be readin the article at the beginning of this post.

So I said, mum, check this out. N she read the article n is now convinced of how safe creatine is.

So ppl of the world, print the article out n show your parents to put their mind at ease!! It worked for me /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Steel Warrior]

most anabolic steroids are in liquid form anyway for injections (HGH, Steroids, Pro Hormones) said how people will acuse you of using an anabolic substance with no knowledge of it what so ever.

[migm]

Hey all -

Hope this gets foudn in the big stack of questions.. I just got creatine, the only problem is I didn't realize it was "strawberry blast" flavored, which is the equivelent of pixie stick on crack, so when i spooned a scoop into my mouth I just about gagged from tartness. is there *anything* i can do.. i don't know if i can handle 4 shots of this stuff to creatine load, my mouth might form into a permanent pucker haha

[Adam Knowlden]

I would just use standard creatine as we have discussed. What they are doing is adding sugar with the creatine to give you an insulin spike post workout, as to drive the creatine into your muscles. The problem is they do not consider factors such as Lean body mass in there ratios. Concerning carbs post workout, one size does not fit all.

[migm]

I thought post workout insulin spike was the only time an insulin spike was okay - and preferred?


edit: I don't think I can return it now that it's open.. and there's no way I can spend another 30-40 bucks on plain creatine at the moment.

Here are the ingredients (per serving size)

Creatine Citrate 5 g
D-Ribose 2g
Dimethylglycine 125mg
Potassium Phosphate 100 mg
Sodium Phosphate 100 mg

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[Italian78]

Ok I wish I would of read this info before.
I have used Muscle Tech Products, Cell-Tech, Nitrotech Etc.. Now I am trying this new stuff from Vitamin World Its called Pricision Enginered, Its fruit punch Cteatine I have been using it for over a week now and Let me tell this stuff is nasty tasting, I almost puke when I drink it then I think if gives me a little buzz? Wired right,has anyone ever had these effects before, I think I am going to return it and get regular Creatine, Thanks

[migm]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I thought post workout insulin spike was the only time an insulin spike was okay - and preferred?


[/ QUOTE ]

True, but the sugar has to be the right combination of dextrose and maltodextrin, which is certainly not the case in the pre-packaged sugar/creatine mix you purchased. Further, you cannot load on this kind of creatine without spiking insulin 4-5 times a day. This is hardly desireable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll try to return it, in case I can't - is it better to simply discontinue this creatine/sugar? Or will it still provide me with some benefits

[ryancostill]

i believe, yes, it would be much better to return/discontinue using this creatine product and get some pure monohydrate. i know that wont be the most financially beneficial solution but it will be the most beneficial solution in terms of build muscle.

[migm]

I went ahead and returned the creatine citrate for creatine monohydrate (just creatine monohydrate)

The problem is, there is no scoop, so I don't know how much I should be taking. I took 1 1/2 tsps of it PWO. Is this okay?

[ice799]

i feel like 656 sources isn't enough. maybe i can give my fingers a better workout if you post some more, that scroll wheel is feeling nice. =]

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[CoLDTuRKeY]

Haha, nice /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Okay I think I have a new question... I tried a search and didn't turn up anything. Right now I'm on a prescription antibiotic and I'm back on creatine after cycling. There isn't any chance of either of these two doing anything that would adversely affect the other, is there?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[CoLDTuRKeY]

It's called cephalexin. Would you know if that would have thermogenic effects? And if it does, basically I just have to up my water intake and I should be fine?

[NJI]

<font color="666666"> I'm not finding any thermogenic side effects for the antibiotic you named. It shouldn't have any. </font>

http://my.webmd.com/hw/drug_data/d00096a1?lastselectedguid={5fe84e90-bc77-4056-a91c-9531713ca348}

[CoLDTuRKeY]

Thanks there stranger! /forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

How are things going for ya lately seksi? The Air Force treating ya good?

[NJI]

<font color="666666"> There great, i'm in an apartment now and should be on ABC a lot more now. </font>

[sucramdw]

In the tabs under where to load again it says...
Q: Do I need to Cycle Creatine?

[ QUOTE ]
A: My recommendation is to load for 5 days, followed by a 5-10 gram maintenance dosage for 4-6 weeks. Following this, there are two particular strategies:

1. You can take one to two weeks off and then start the cycle over. Many athletes attest to receiving a better results this way.

2. However, several athletes will never come off of it. They will load it for 5 days, maintain for a few weeks and then reload again. This is increasingly becoming the more popular method of usage.

[/ QUOTE ]

My question is...
*Which is better and why...is it better to take 1-2 weeks off??and why??...or just to stay on and load again??

thanks.. <font color="black"> </font>

[sucramdw]

*Why is it better to take your first 5 servings in the morning rather then say a pre-workout shake an 1-2hours before??..

[sucramdw]

Post deleted by OldSchool

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[migm]

Hey - my question kind of got buried - my creatine didn't come with a scoop.. How many table spoons/teaspoons should i be taking? 1 tsp = 5 g?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[CoLDTuRKeY]

Typically a heaping teaspoon is right around 5 grams, but like Yu said make sure you check on the package.
And thanks for the advice guys. I'm probably going to be drinking a little extra water each day just to be on the safe side though /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[MuGeN]

i got a question about alcohol and creatine. I know its pretty bad to mix these 2 together.

Should i take creatine on a day i know i am going to drink? first year college etc..

what are the effects and what can i do to minimize the damage

thx

[CoLDTuRKeY]

Do a search on this. There's a locked topic that can't be a page back on this. It has been covered again and again and again. I don't want to come off sounding like a jerk on this but it has seriously been exhausted.

[CoLDTuRKeY]

Here's one...


http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=942246&amp;page=1&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=7&amp;fpart=1


Just type in "alcohol" in the search bar and switch to "all active dates" for more.

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[migm]

Guys -

It claims to have a scoop inside the container, but it does not. Hence my question

[CoLDTuRKeY]

lol Those posts we made about searching weren't to you dude /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif Haha. Sometimes the scoop settles all the way to the bottom of the container. You'll probably find it when you get through with the container, which is really frustrating. You think they would figure out to tape the friggin thing to the lid already...

[Burton]

[ QUOTE ]
If the expiration date has yet to pass, and if the creatine has not formulated into clumps, then it should be fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, this is the first time this has been an issue for me. My creatine is clumping up in the container. The expiration date is still 4 months away......but it is clumping. /forum/images/graemlins/mad.gif The volume I have left is probably about 200 grams from the original 1kg. I assume I should probably pitch it, but i thought I would check in with my #1 resource first.

Thanks,
Burton

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[Burton]

10-4. Thanks for the prompt response. I can still order some more today! /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Imy85]

I had the same problem with my Reflex Creapure. The tiny scoop was buried riiight under the creatine. It was a nice feelin to see the scoop tho /forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[icehawk]

I got a bit of Cell-tech (I bought it like two years ago) left over but I don't have too much left. I don't see myself spending any more cash on any supps other than whey (I'm a student /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif) so would it be beneficial to skip the loading phase and just maintain with 5 grams of creatine?

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[icehawk]

[ QUOTE ]
It probably isn't even good any more. But if you still want to use it, only take it post workout. You won't much, if any results by skiping the loading phase with expired creatine though. Personally I think it isn't worth the hassle.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I just checked it... it's best buy 08/04 /forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif Darn..

[icehawk]

Hey, does Glutamine go bad? They haven't marked an expiry date on the tub...

[Crombie]

[ QUOTE ]
The clumping means that water particles got to the creatine. The clumps are useless and need to be thrown out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just curious I had thought that all creatine when there were clumps was bad. So are you saying we could say use a strainer to strain out the clumps, and the rest of the creatine should be okay to use?

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[Crombie]

That's awesome! For the longest time if I have found any clumps in my creatine I have just tossed it. This will certainly save me some money in the long run!
http://www.darkharbor.com/snoopydance/assets/images/01snoopy.gif

[Duke Juno]

Great post guys... Tons of useful info.

Now I have a question that I didn't see mention of in regards to creatine deposits under the skin. A few guys I work with said they got lumps under their skin when they were taking the creatine. I'm thinking this is most likely due to them not hydrating themselves enough, but I could be wrong, so any insight on this would be great. I guess I just don't want to be walking around looking like I'm smuggling raisins under my skin /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif Again, maybe this is just common, and I don't see it as a strong enough factor to keep me from trying out creatine, but I'd still like some clarification on this subject. Thanks in advance.

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[lyle]

It took a while, but after reading this thread I still have a few questions.

1 - I read somewhere that certain people may be creatine non-responders, and that this my be counteracted by using creatine with a delivery system (dextrose/maltodextrin). I know you dont recommend these types of creatine normally,but is there any truth to this?

2 - You say to put the creatine powder directly in your mouth and wash it down with water. Well I tried this, and breifly wished for my own death. I honestly dont think I could do this everyday. Can it be mixed and still be effective? If not in water, anything else?

3 - I actually feel a wave of nausesa immediately after taking creatine. Is this the creatine doing this?

Great site, may have saved me as I found it researching NO2, which I will now stay away from.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[lyle]

[ QUOTE ]
2 - You say to put the creatine powder directly in your mouth and wash it down with water. Well I tried this, and breifly wished for my own death. I honestly dont think I could do this everyday. Can it be mixed and still be effective? If not in water, anything else?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Bodybuilders don't eat for taste. You will learn to love it. It's the absolute best way to take it.

[/ QUOTE ]


Thanks for the reply.
This however leads me to one more question.

IF I put the creatine directly in my mouth and wash it down with water, what is the differance if I fill a glass with water, add the creatine, give it a quick stir and down it. The whole process will only take 5 seconds. Can this really mess up the creatine? What would the differance be?


Thanks again.

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[puMPed_GuNs]

My creatine says to consume 20 mins BEFORE training.. ??

[puMPed_GuNs]

Just found this on the internet also:

[ QUOTE ]

Should I do a loading phase?
Probably not. Everyone who sells creatine wants you to do a loading phase where you take 20 grams a day for the first 5 days. From their standpoint - the more you take - the more they sell. However, unless you are in a hurry to gain muscle mass loading is not necessary. Studies have shown that people who load have greater gains than people who take just 5 grams a day after the first 2 weeks. However, after 4 weeks both groups are at an equal level. So, all loading does is just get you to the same point 2 weeks faster. We don't think taking 100 grams in 1 week is worth it if all it does is shave 2 weeks off the process. In the end you are not going to have greater gains with loading.


[/ QUOTE ]

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[puMPed_GuNs]

Since I have been taking creatine my urine has become very yellow - does this just mean I need to consume even more water now?

Also, I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the fact Im taking creatine - but my face has been feeling really hot lately.

Any advice?

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[puMPed_GuNs]

Thanks Joe!

[Mark M]

Hi All. Just found this site last night, and after 4hrs of reading until 1am, had to drag myself away from the computer and go to bed. I can see many more such nights. Best site I've found so far.

I did a search on "Micronized" and found nothing. I know the rec. is pure creatine, but is micronized better? There is also a new creatine "brand shall remain nameless" that calls itself "nano". Supposed to be 1250 times smaller tham micronized. Any thoughts?

TIA.

[Mark M]

That's funny. Just searched again on "micronized" and found heaps. Must be a brain melt.

However, I could not find a definitive answer to my question.

Does micronized absorb better then standard? If so, is "nano" better?

[puMPed_GuNs]

How long after taking creatine should it be before you start noticing an effect, outside of the gym, eg. weight?

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[puMPed_GuNs]

Ive been taking it for about 2 weeks, and my weight has not changed.. /forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif
The only thing I have noticed is the pump in the gym!

[STEVEsteveSTEVE]

thanks for the advice! youve persuaded me to pick up some creatine this week /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Mr BJ]

Great Site !!! I have been on creatine for about 3 weeks now and am very pleased with the results so far. I think after 6 weeks I will reload and maintain for another 6 weeks. My questions are: What is the reason for reloading if I want to continuously maintain? and after the second 6 week maintenance period do you suggest reloading again or abstain for a couple of weeks?

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[Last_Three]

Wow yu thats a lot of references that im to lazy to look at, but i was wondering im 14 and would creatine be good for me and my gains? Iv just recently started bbing as my bro now uses the gym and has 2 grand of gym stuff in the basement. Would my body be able to handel it or should i wait a couple years? And i know uv said u bbed all your life but what age did you really get into it by sounds of it 7 lol?

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[Last_Three]

[ QUOTE ]
Creatine is fine at 14.

[/ QUOTE ]
You didn't answer my other question /forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif. I thought as much but wanted to double check and just would like to know about the gaisn of creatine. From what iv read the gains are equal to the amount of effort you put it. If you go half sissy you wont get maximum benefit of it but if you go hardcore you will get full reults. However, im sketchy on the % level of increase. Say i go hardcore supersetting strip setting the works what % of gaisn will come from creatine 10% more than with out it or somewhere there?

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[STEVEsteveSTEVE]

[ QUOTE ]
Side effects and adverse reactions to creatine supplementation
Short term (less than 2 weeks) exercise studies have not reported any adverse events associated with creatine supplementation. There have been no long term studies done to evaluate the safety of prolonged administration. This is unfortunate because increasingly more and more athletes are taking creatine supplements for longer periods. Anecdotal reports have begun to emerge and have noted increased muscle cramping (especially during exercise in the heat), nausea and other gastrointestinal disturbances, elevated liver transaminases, and acute renal injury.


Creatine supplementation, in the dosages commonly used, results in urinary concentrations that are 90 times greater than normal. The long term effects of this have not been investigated, but there is possibility for a variety of nephrotoxic, i.e., kidney damaging, events. There is potential for direct toxicity on renal tubules where urine is formed, and for acceleration of kidney stone formation. Recently, a baseball player for the Houston Astros was determined to have suffered from dehydration, kidney stones, and transient kidney damage as the result of creatine supplementation. Additionally, the deaths of 3 collegiate wrestlers this past year are being investigated to determine what role creatine supplementation may have played.

Impurities are present in virtually every manufactured product, and in some cases, even though the product may be considered harmless, the impurity is not. Such was the case in the late 1980's when an epidemic of cases of eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome, including over 30 deaths, were blamed on a contaminant present in L-tryptophan (9), an amino acid supplement widely taken as a sleep aid. Creatine, and other such supplements, are not regulated by the FDA. No published investigation has been conducted on creatine to determine what impurities might be present in creatine supplements, and what their long term effect might be.

The bottom line is that no one can confidently state that prolonged creatine supplementation is safe, and its use would best be avoided until more data can be compiled. Prolonged administration is, in essence, an uncontrolled toxicity study and one which might yield harmful results. Is it worth the risk? Remember, it's your body!


[/ QUOTE ]
this qoute taken from http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/sports/creatine.html

well i was going to pick up some creatine, but after reading this im a little discouraged. KIDNEY STONES? Id do anything not to have those! i can think of nothing worse!
/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Last_Three]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You didn't answer my other question

[/ QUOTE ]

I know. I answer most personal questions in my journal.

[ QUOTE ]
From what iv read the gains are equal to the amount of effort you put it

[/ QUOTE ]

As it should be.

[ QUOTE ]
If you go half sissy you wont get maximum benefit of it but if you go hardcore you will get full reults.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's an all or nothing lifestyle. You cannot "kinda" bodybuild. It is a total commitment.

[ QUOTE ]
Say i go hardcore supersetting strip setting the works what % of gaisn will come from creatine 10% more than with out it or somewhere there?

[/ QUOTE ]

Creatine will give you slightly more capacity to train harder. Creatine will give you the extra 1 or 2 reps you need. Over time, this will lead to muscle growth because YOU pushed yourself for those 2 extra reps. Creatine makes that possible by lending an inorganic phosphate to ADP, allowing the ADP to be recycled back into ATP to continue muscle contraction when you otherwise would not be able to.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you yu for that response. However, i just want to re asure myself on how creatine works. It doesn't give you a boost in muscle but in strength at the end of a workout. My name is Last_three because its the last three reps that build muscle and contribute most, and with creatine you can go beyond that by adding 1-2 reps in at the end of every exercise and thats were it counts the most. So it gives an increase in strength which in turn will continue to help build musle mass?

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[STEVEsteveSTEVE]

LOL, well thanks for clearing that up for me. Im not argueing with you, just wondering if any of that was true. I guess i shoulda looked closer at it before i got worried about kidney stones. hehehe

i bought creatine and am taking it, and even after 2 workouts i see the difference it makes. THis stuff is gold! No negative effects at all, no naseau, nothing but positive. Stupid people scaring nooby weighttrainers such as myself away from a great product...

Thanks for clearing that up for me YU. YOUR THE MAN!

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[Corn]

haha, Joe, i love how you tear those articles up piece by piece. always backing it up to. good stuff. THanks for all your great posts.

First thing i do when i come to the forum is search all the new Joe Yu King posts haha.

[ricky2]

Joe..i was just wondering if taking another spoonful of creatine during the middle of our workout would be beneficial if we know will be staying there a while?Thanks

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[sucramdw]

[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
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*Why is it better to take your first 5 servings in the morning rather then say a pre-workout shake an 1-2hours before??..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To maintain plasma creatine levels after a 8-hour fast (sleep).


[/ QUOTE ]
I Should have asked this before...but could you go further into this Yu??

[ZEN MASHEENE]

Didn't want to start a new thread about creatine so I'll post this in here.

I made a post a long time ago about whether or not caffeine and creatine should be used together, and every response I received was a definite no on that.

So my question is, ¿when or how does one integrate caffeine into the diet while using creatine?

I like the boost I receive from caffeine, but I also want to supplement with creatine. ¿Is there a way to do this? ¿Is extra hydration the answer?

EDIT: Jeez, I just found one result that kind of answered my questions after searching through the search results.

EDIT 2: But it didn't answer how to integrate caffeine and creatine into the diet, although the suggestion to drink more water was thrown out there, it was never confirmed.

[Paters]

Two football players on my team went to the hospital from kidney problems. They were taking 15-20 of creatine a day. A med. Dr. came and talked to the whole football team and told us this: "there is no such thing has loading. That the body can only 'absorb' a fraction of 5g. The rest is taken out throught the kidneys. Any more than the 5g and kidneys are working overtime.
The loading phase is a sales pitch to get you to take more. You can do that with non-fat soluble subtances, like Vitamin C. "
Where is the truth is this?

Chris

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[shodan]

Hi All,

Been checking this site for quite some time and finally got around to registering. Been working out for about 7 months and have read through many articles on this site as well as others and I must say this is by FAR the BEST and most thorough of all. I have 2 questions/requests for comments for anyone willing to add their input:

1) I read the below article back in Feb. (I'm referring to the Creatine related section within the link as it is a newsletter w/ 3 sections) and in it there is mention of a new study that was done where creatine is cycled on a weekly basis of 3 days usage followed by 2 days of non usage. There is also mention of some of the other forms of creatine and how one should probably stick w/ good old Creatine Monohydrate.

I personally agree with the knowledge of our forum moderators and the numerous studies posted to back them up and am just curious of whether anyone is familiar with this claim and what their thoughts are on it? If Joe could debunk it, I'd love to see your comments.

http://www.labrada.com/members/towarchive/week188.htm

Dr. Darren Burke from Francis Xavier University in Canada is the person quoted in the article.

2) Also, I have read in a few places on the net (I did a search in google for creatine cycling) that a good rule of thumb to figure out your daily maint. dose would be to multiply your body weight by .03. So for myself (170lbs. x .03 = 5.1g). This coincides with what I've read here except that on workout days I'm taking an addt'l 5g first thing when I wake up prior to eating breakfast and 5g post workout scooped into my mouth washed down w/ water (as I read here) which really does not taste that bad contrary to what others may think.

I've cycled creatine twice now, and I definitely notice more full, pumped up muscles in and out of the gym. I drink 1 to 1 1/2 gallons a day whether I'm on it or not and I must say that I like the cosmetic and physical results I get from using it. Some people don't like the puffyness that it gives their muscles and claim it makes them soft but I think it makes me look a bit bigger and I am able to lift a bit heavier and don't feel so sore the next day after an intense workout (which leads me to believe that the lactic acid buffering claims hold true). There are many benefits that I feel while using it. Just wanted to also include my personal results for anyone reading this thinking about using it for the first time. I would say to PLEASE read related articles before posting questions as there seems to be alot of information already answered, I mean the moderators already had to paste the entire creatine article in here 2x. READ for goodness sakes! /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif Take care all.

[mrintensit-matt]

hey I am 14 and I was wondering if I could take creatine. I have been lfting for about 1 year steady thanks matt

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[shodan]

Thanks for clearing that up, I will be sticking w/ the current regimen.

Not to go on a tangent, but I have searched the forum and found very little information on alpha lipoic acid and/or taurine other than mention when making your own version of cell tech. I have been using r ala (200mg) on workout days along w/ the creatine and am thinking about including some taurine in my pwo shake. I don't think it hurts to have a "delivery system" every bit of an edge counts for me, and the idea of an insulin "mimicker" looks good on paper. What real world results might one see?

Where do you stand on these two supplements? I've searched the net and have not found too much info other than from the people trying to sell ala and a short report at uc Berkeley basically stating to stay away until more research has been done ( http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/ds/dsAlphaLipoicAcid.php )

I also read somewhere (sorry for the lack of exact references) that one should take extra biotin (or at least make sure that you're ingesting your daily requirement) because the ala interferes with that somehow. Any words of wisdom you could share regarding the use of these two supplements? If I should open a new thread I will do so. Thanks.

[sucramdw]

I think my question was skipped over by accident(its about 6posts up)...i dont mean to be rude by posting it again.

Quote:
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*Why is it better to take your first 5 servings in the morning rather then say a pre-workout shake an 1-2hours before??..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"To maintain plasma creatine levels after a 8-hour fast (sleep)."-Yu
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I Should have asked this before...but could you go further into this Yu??

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[HKDave]

One question (did search, didn't find much relevant info)...

What happens when you STOP taking creatine? Not cycling off but stopping altogether (let's say 3-4 months down the road after NOT taking any creatine supplementation).

[Crombie]

The only thing that would happen is you would lose the water held within your muscles, and the benefits creatine convey during the workout. It's not a drug where if you go "cold turkey" you will have convulsions, and find yourself sneaking "just a bit" of creatine for your daily creatine "fix".

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[HKDave]

Gotcha

[STEVEsteveSTEVE]

i know you make some refrences to it in the article, but would you reccomend taking a month off every other month?
would it have any advantages?

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[STEVEsteveSTEVE]

cool, thanks

[muscle tension]

by the way im not a newbie!!!! i am kelvonator with 250 posts that lost his password!! make me a bit duhhh i know !!!
i think you lot should cool it down guys lol i think "joe yu king" has got bloody loads of research to back him up be hey dude ! no need to show off" i think you all have very good points, try researching yourselfs and see wihich one works better! be the scientice!!! ive always done the normal 5 day loading of 20-25grams a day then maintiance 5 to 10grams depending what diet im on !!! e.g ---me on cut 5grams maintaince, lighter weights more reps------me on bulk 10grams maintaince, heavy weights less reps????? i think its acorrding how heavy your lifting , how many rep reps are you on bulk, are u on cut..........? you could debate about all your life until you experiment your self .....(mind not overdosing) lol you could say my way is totally wrong but ive tryed many ways, and this way it works best for me.......if someone can show me *real* improvements by taking it another way i would sure try it.....we all want to progress ...........but chill guys we all could be right!!!!!!!!!!????????

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[tarkan]

i'm sorry if this has already been answered. i was wondering if it makes any difference to take creatine in powder form or as tabs?

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[pyrojeff]

I've been using creatine for about 3 weeks now. However, I got sick over the weekend, and didn't even take any creatine for 2-3 days. Should I have to load up for another week again or should my body still be saturated enough where I can just take servings to maintain the creatine?

[Duke Juno]

As far as water consumption goes, is it basically a safe bet to drink it until ones urine is clear? Even up to the point where you may be going to the bathroom numerous times within an hour? I just started a loading phase and have been pounding the water to me, basically trying to keep my urine perfectly clear but is this hard on ones bladder, handling such an amount? Last night at work I was going to the bathroom almost every 15 minutes, no word of a lie. I figured going this much would guarantee my urine to be clear, but the darn stuff was gaining a bit of 'yellowness' on me!! ...LOL.../forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif Am I going to extreme's drinking so much water, or is this something my body will adjust too? My my bladder will learn to hold more water??

Sorry for being so long winded, but this whole water consumption bit has been eating at me.

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[Scouras626]

Question about the stability of creatine:
If creatine is so volatile in water, how well does it hold up in ones stomach? Surely the strong acid of the stomach must be more catalytic than water...right? I'd be very interested to see how well creatine holds up in an acid of similar strength. Also, the body is made up of so much water, I don't know how it wouldn't all turn into creatinine before it reached the muscles. I'm not doubting the effectiveness of creatine...these are just things I think about.

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[Scouras626]

[ QUOTE ]
Right. Which is why we must not waste any time with it sitting in water before we injest it, because we know it will start to break down in the stomach as well.

Don't worry, this is a topic I discuss next month in JHR. /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent. I look forward to it. /forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[sucramdw]

[ QUOTE ]
.66 x bodyweight = the number of oz of water the average person should drink. I usually drink more.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok so i weigh 185 pounds...if i did the math right that comes out to be 3.82 liters a day...so about 4 liters. I drink about 3 liters just during my workout. and so about 7 liters a day...hopefully this is accurate-im doing my math off of that there is 1.89 liters in 2QTs.

so...am i drinking too much?

i guess this isn't a creatine question. /forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[jattfusion]

what are the brands of creatine u have taken and found problems ( stomach cramps)
and the ones u guys had no problems.
can you guys list some,

i tried pro lab monohydrate for 4 months .
had no problems but when i stopped for 2 weeks and went back to it, i started having sharp stomach cramps, havent touched creatine ever since. But , few weeks ago a friend of mine told me , he was having same problems with this creatine brandname, and it took him a while to find the right kind for him.

thats why i want to get first hand results from the bodybuilders who take creatine , here /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[sucramdw]

Creatine will not cause stomach cramps if used properly, that means not taking it if its gone bad and drink a sufficient amount of water. Get back on creatine asap, its a top of the line supp. Most any creatine monohydrate brand should be great. Try looking for a creapure logo on the container if your that worried.

[JoE DoN 216]

but seriously my family does question me about my oatmeal addiction.. i shred through about 3 boxes a week X_X