Scientific Lunacy

[CoLDTuRKeY]

Don't know if this has been posted on here or not but this is just insane...

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/fe-scidi.htm

Is this dip serious or so you think he is just trying to attract attention?

[Failure is Success]

"Not the Bible but Johnson's own common sense allowed him to see through the globe myth while he was still in grade school. He contends that sensible people all over the world, not just Bible believers, realize that the earth really is flat."

What an idiot. I doubt it was common sense that showed him anything.

[Coz]

So if this moron is right...all the vessels that sail through the pacific Ocean should have fallen off the face of the Earth. What an idiot.

[crosswalkryan]

"Wherever you find people with a great reservoir of common sense," he says, "they don't believe idiotic things such as the earth spinning around the sun. Reasonable, intelligent people have always recognized that the earth is flat."


So, I guess einstein, stephen hawking, and heck hundreds of thousands of astronomers are all idiots or in a conspiracy together?

[Adam Knowlden]

I think these people are serious. I've heard of the flat earth society. Very funny actually.

But let me tell you the bible does not teach a flat earth.

Let me put in reference how illogical these assumptions that these folks claim the bible says the earth is flat:

My weather man is a flat-earther. He said I can see the sun set on the horizon. I'm never listening to that flat-earther again.

After all how can the sun "set"?

Flat earther! Horizon? The earth is not horizontal. Flat earther!

What he is done is described the earth's rotations from the vantiage point of an earth bound observer. He is not lying or tricking.

What does the bible really say:


<font color="red"> 21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?

22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
</font>

<font color="blue"> 7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

8 He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them.

</font>

1. The earth is a sphere.
2. It hangs upon nothing(gravity)

These people whom claim the bible says "flat earth" have errord in their logic.

The bible is clear when they are referring to an earth-bound observation point.

It is also clear when it is referring to astronomical anomolies.

In modern terms what we would refer to as "sun set" and "sun rise", when we all know the sun doesn't set or rise.

The bible will call "the four corners of the earth". This does not mean the earth "has four corners". It is a representation of North, south, east, and west.

These people need to learn some basic biblical laws and these misinterpertations would be avoided. But people insist on doing exactly what the bible forbids:

<font color="brown">20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
</font>

Do not take the Word of God into your own hands. The bible always interperts the bible! Everytime. This has caused all kinds of mistakes in the churh's history.

[ QUOTE ]
According to the New Testament, Jesus ascended up into heaven.


[/ QUOTE ]

Again, more misinterpertation. I can take words out of context in anything.

I can take the forum rules and do so:

[ QUOTE ]
There are thousands of posts made here every week

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The boards are not for that.


[/ QUOTE ]

I can switch things around to make it say what I want. This is exactly what these guys do on a continual basis.

So did Jesus ascend into heaven?

First where did he go?

[ QUOTE ]
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:


[/ QUOTE ]

To the right hand of God.

What heaven did he go to?

<font color="red"> 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven .

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
</font>

After Paul was stoned at Lystra. He declares he was caught up into the third heaven. Third heaven? Yes there are what the bible calls three heavens!

The first is the sky. The second is space, or anything above the earth's atmosphere. And the third as Paul makes clear is the heaven Jesus ascended too. The heaven where God lives!

Jesus ascended into the third heaven.

<font color="red"> 51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
</font>

<font color="green">19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
</font>


[ QUOTE ]
Moses was a flat-earther," he reveals.

[/ QUOTE ]

Give me a break. You are. Moses grew up an Egyptian prince. He was well versed in astronomy. He never claimed a flat earth.

[ QUOTE ]
Why declare the world flat? Johnson responds that a prophesied condition for world government (Isaiah 60:20) is that the "sun shall no more go down." This could be fulfilled by admitting that sunrise and sunset are optical illusions.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is totally rediculous. This is exaclty what I'm talking about with the forum rules example.

Now, let's look at THE CONTEXT of the verse, insted of picking 5 words we want to fit our idea out.

<font color="brown"> 19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
</font>

God is speaking of a future time. When there will be no need of a sun or moon. The first thing you have to understand about Isaiah is that it is a book of prophecy. We have to take it in context.

What is God referring to here?

<font color="red"> 20 Your sun will never set again,
and your moon will wane no more;
the LORD will be your everlasting light,
and your days of sorrow will end.
</font>

We see it revealed in Revelation 22:

<font color="red"> 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

</font>

This guy has pulled the flat earth scenario out of his mental fantasies. The verse says nothing indicating a flat earh. That is rediculous.

And I might add that's not a smart move.

<font color="red"> If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

</font>

In the same chapter God says don't add things to revelation.

This guy can say what he wants. But the bible does not teach a flat earth. Anywhere. Whatsoever.

[Adam Knowlden]

There is a few other things I wanted to add to this.

As I said earlier some unskilled bible readers have claimed that Revelation 7:1 assumes a flat earth since the verse refers to angels standing at the "four corners" of the earth.

As I said the reference is to the cardinal directions: north, south, east, and west.

Perhaps no phrase in Scripture has been so controversial as the phrase, "the four corners of the earth." The word translated "corners," as in the phrase above, is the Hebrew word, KANAPH. Kanaph is translated in a variety of ways. However, it generally means extremity.

It is translated "borders" in Numbers 15:38. In Ezekiel 7:2 it is translated "four corners" and again in Isaiah 11:12 "four corners." Job 37:3 and 38:13 as "ends."

The Greek equivalent in Revelation 7:1 is gonia. The Greek meaning is perhaps more closely related to our modern divisions known as quadrants. Gonia literally means angles, or divisions. It is customary to divide a map into quadrants as shown by the four dirctions.

Some have tried to ridicule the bible to say that it teaches that the earth is square. /forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif The Scripture makes it quite clear that the earth is a sphere (Isaiah 40:22).

Some have tried to say there are four knobs, or peaks on a round earth. Regardless of the various ways kanaph is translated, it makes reference to EXTREMITIES.

There are many ways in which God the Holy Spirit could have said corner. Any of the following Hebrew words could have been used:

Pinoh is used in reference to the cornerstone.
Paioh means "a geometric corner"
Ziovyoh means "right angle" or "corner"
Krnouth refers to a projecting corner.
Paamouth - If the Lord wanted to convey the idea of a square, four-cornered earth, the Hebrew word paamouth could have been used. Paamouth means square.

Instead, the Holy Spirit selected the word kanaph, conveying the idea of extremity.

It is doubtful that any religious Jew would ever misunderstand the true meaning of kanaph. For nearly 2,000 years, religious Jews have faced the city of Jerusalem three times daily and chanted the following prayer:

"Sound the great trumpet for our freedom,
Raise the banner for gathering our exiles,
And gather us together from THE FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH
into our own land."

The Book of Isaiah describes how the mesiah, the root of Jesse, will regather his people from the four corners of the earth. They shall come from every extremity to be gathered into Israel.

<font color="red"> "And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse,
Who shall stand as a banner to the people;
For the Gentiles shall seek Him,
And His resting place shall be glorious."
It shall come to pass in that day
That the LORD shall set His hand again the second time
To recover the remnant of His people who are left,
From Assyria and Egypt,
From Pathros and Cush,
From Elam and Shinar,
From Hamath and the islands of the sea.
He will set up a banner for the nations,
And will assemble the outcasts of Israel,
And gather together the dispersed of Judah
From THE FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. </font>
(Isaiah 11:10-12)

Similar terminology is often used today when we speak of the sun's rising and setting, even though the earth, not the sun, is doing the moving.

Bible writers used the "language of appearance," just as people always have. Without it, the intended message would be awkward at best and probably not understood clearly.

In the Old Testament, Job 26:7 explains that the earth is suspended in space, the obvious comparison being with the spherical sun and moon.

A literal translation of Job 26:10 is "He described a circle upon the face of the waters, until the day and night come to an end."

I also pointed out that the spherical earth is described in Isaiah 40:21-22 -"the circle of the earth."

Proverbs 8:27 also suggests a round earth by use of the word circle.

If you are overlooking the ocean, the horizon appears as a circle. This circle on the horizon is described in Job 26:10.

The circle on the face of the waters is one of the proofs that the Greeks used for a spherical earth. Yet here it is recorded in Job, ages before the Greeks discovered it. Job 26:10 indicates that where light terminates, darkness begins. This suggests day and night on a spherical globe.

<font color="red"> 10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
</font>

The Hebrew record is the oldest. Historians generally credit the Greeks with being the first to suggest a spherical earth. In the sixth century B.C., Pythagoras suggested a spherical earth.

"Eratosthenes of Alexandria (circa 276 to 194 or 192 B.C.) calcuated the circumference of the earth "within 50 miles of the present estimate."

The Greeks also drew meridians and parallels. They identified such areas as the poles, equator, and tropics. This spherical earth concept did not prevail; the Romans drew the earth as a flat disk with oceans around it.

The round shape of our planet was a conclusion easily drawn by watching ships disappear over the horizon and also by observing eclipse shadows, and we can assume that such information was well known to New Testament writers.

Earth's spherical shape was, of course, also understood by Christopher Columbus.

The implication of a round earth is seen in the book of Luke, where Jesus described his return, Luke 17:31. Jesus said, "In that day," then in verse 34, "In that night." This is an allusion to light on one side of the globe and darkness on the other simultaneously.

The conclusion is obvious. The notion of a spherical earth was common knowldege

But let's see some history.

Yet, it was only a handful of so-called intellectual scholars throughout the centuries, claiming to represent the Church, who held to a flat Earth. Most of these were ignored by the Church, yet somehow their writings made it into early history books as being the 'official Christian viewpoint'.

<font color="red"> Lactantius

The earliest of these flat-Earth promoters was the African Lactantius (AD 245&amp;#8211;325), a professional rhetorician who converted to Christianity mid-life.
</font>

He rejected all the Greek philosophers, and in doing so also rejected a spherical Earth. His views were considered heresy by the Church Fathers and his work was ignored until the Renaissance (at which time some humanists revived his writings as a model of good Latin, and of course, his flat Earth view also was revived).

Cosmas Indicopleustes and Church Fathers

<font color="blue"> Next was sixth century Eastern Greek Christian, Cosmas Indicopleustes, who claimed the Earth was flat and lay beneath the heavens (consisting of a rectangular vaulted arch). His work also was soundly rejected by the Church Fathers, but liberal historians have usually claimed his view as typical of that of the Church Fathers.

</font>

US Library of Congress head, Daniel Boorstin (quoted above), like historians before him, simply followed the pattern of others without checking the facts. In fact, most of the Church Fathers did not address the issue of the shape of the Earth, and those who did regarded it as "round" or spherical.

In 1828, American writer Washington Irving (author of Rip Van Winkle) published a book entitled The Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus. It was a mixture of fact and fiction, with Irving himself admitting he was "apt to indulge in the imagination."

Its theme was the victory of a lone believer in a spherical Earth over a united front of Bible-quoting, superstitious ignoramuses, convinced the Earth was flat. In fact, the well-known argument and the Council of Salamanca was about the dubious distance between Europe and Japan which Columbus presented--it had nothing to do with the shape of the Earth.

In 1834, the anti-Christian Letronne falsely claimed that most of the Church Fathers, including Augustine, Ambrose and Basil, held to a flat Earth. His work has been repeatedly cited as "reputable" ever since.

In the late nineteenth century, the writings of John William Draper and Andrew Dickson White were responsible for promoting the myth that the church taught a flat Earth. Both had Christian backgrounds, but rejected these early in life.

Englishman Draper convinced himself that with the downfall of the Roman Empire the "affairs of men fell into the hands of ignorant and infuriated ecclesiastics, parasites, eunuchs and slaves" &amp;#8212; these were the "Dark Ages". Draper's work, History of the Conflict between Religion and Science (1874), was directed particularly against the Roman Church, and was a best seller.

Meanwhile White (who founded Cornell University as the first explicitly secular university in the United States), published the two-volume scholarly work History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom, in 1896.

Both men incorrectly portrayed a continuing battle through the Christian era between the defenders of ignorance and the enlightened rationalists. In fact, not only did the church not promote the flat Earth, it is clear from such passages as Isaiah 40:22 that the Bible implies it is spherical.

[konaforever]

I'm curious. Do you believe that the bible is infalible? The catholic church did once believe that the Sun revolved around the earth, and persecuted Galileo because of it.


[ QUOTE ]
OldSchool said:
I think these people are serious. I've heard of the flat earth society. Very funny actually.

But let me tell you the bible does not teach a flat earth.



[/ QUOTE ]

[Adam Knowlden]

Hey bro.

Read my above post.

Also I addressed this a few pages back in a post called extraterrestrial.

Yes I believe it is infallable. The church has not always been right, but the bible has. And not everyone agreed with this idea. Galileo was just the first to oppose it.