Obsessed with being lean?

I'll admit it, I'm guilty of this. I was reading on another BB board in the Women's Discussion Forum and I made a very important discovery about women, low body fat, and gaining muscle. These are posts by actual female (and one male) members.

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't seen the pics, but I will confirm that I also drop at least 30lbs to get competition lean. I don't gain a lot in strength/muscle size below ~15%bf, and I stay between 15-18% bf in the off season. Works really well for me even if i don't look 'hot' in the off season. Of course for me, a decent amount of that weight is water. 10lbs comes off pretty quickly.

5-7% above contest weight HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I put that on in 3 days with fluid retention alone and before I've gained an ounce of fat. The only thing that would allow me to add muscle whithout gaining a healthy amount of fat is adding AAS. Many women seem able to sit around 12%bf while gaining muscle if they are 'supplementing' properly. Without the supps, I've never seen a woman gain any permanent muscle if she tries (like so many do) to stay around 12%bf. It's a sad thing to see a woman after her first figure or fitness competition desperately trying to stay lean and sexy while gaining muscle for the next show, while refusing to take any AAS. This is destined to fail IMHO.

Yep...I agree.

I read somewhere that the "ideal" training weight is 5-7% above contest weight.

Too low imo.

Look at the most successful pros - most of them really look...well...****ty in the off season.....who looks the best offseason ...Shawn Ray and others...that is why their contest weight hasn't gone upin 10 years.......perhaps Shawn does not "supplement" to the same extent as the others, but there is a correlation between off season bulk and onstage beef.

Hi everyone! I have found it just impossble to stay in the 10-12% range and put on muscle,so I no longer try. As long as I'm within 20 lbs of contest weight I don't sweat it. The funny thing is that although I'm heavier than before I began my last contest prep the additional muscle put on has changed my body shape and I look better than ever. I also think that for the older women like myself staying ultra lean is very hard and not for the best. I know that now I feel solid and strong and am making nice gains in the gym. Also I think that we a break form the constant obsession with leanness as that can lead to eating disorders.<hr /></blockquote>

So margie, perhaps you were thinking along these lines when you asked me if I planned on maintaining my body fat between 12-15%? If so, I gottcha now! This is info that I did not know until now and having learned this, it has changed my way of thinking. I will now be prepared to have a higher body fat percentage from Oct - Feb when it'll be my goal to no longer cut, but to focus on gaining strength and muscle instead. I will probably just make an upper end limit for body fat and try to stay under that while on a program to gain muscle, as the guys call it, "bulking". So now I know for sure this bodybuilding, cutting &amp; bulking, is with me for LIFE now! And I also plan on staying with Beverly, taking their supplements and letting them write my diets. It's so much easier just having someone telling me exactly what to eat. I fooled around writing my own diets for about 9 months, enough of that. So here's me, bodybuilder for life, hehe.

This just goes to show you how important Women's Discussion Forums are! Only other women would know (and probably the men who train them) that they can't gain muscle under 15% body fat without "cheating".

Oh, and I also saw pics of a girl both competition shape and in the off season when she is in a bulking (adding muscle) phase. She has NO abs while bulking but is totally ripped for contest, so I now have faith that I can do the same!

Any comments ladies?

[The Azn Oak]

*lurking* ....do dee doo ....

[MissMargaret]

<font color="blue"> What an interesting topic. I just had a small discussion with a few of my cyber pals about this. I have no idea what my lbm or my bf% is right now. I think I'm between 16 and 18% and I feel great. I love the way my upper body is progressing and since I started the big leg workout from this board have made some strides there. I've been in a kind of cutting phase since the middle of May simply because it is bikini season and well, no one wants to look bad in their bathing suit. I had decided in the late winter that I would cut for the Spring and then move to a bulking phase in September. But I was not sure where I should set my weight or my bf% to achieve that. Now I have a better idea of it. Thanks for this. It's been very helpful.

Miss M </font color>

[Philia2]

I think that the hardest thing to do when I was desperately trying to loose weight before my first competition was to keep on eating...... I mean it's soooooo easy just to stop eating and then get as skinny as you want (and that's unfortunately what so many women do) but if you want to keep your muscles and a great body, well then you just have to eat all those frequent small meals and this fat so necessairy for your health.
It's difficult to understand, that you need to eat all that before you'll be able to burn and get rid of the last fat....

We women will be women, and we got more fat on our bodies than men. It's a fact, now why are we so obsessed by losing it?

When I look at those tiny skinny models in TV or magazines I REALLY start to appreciate my body with it's nicely shaped curves, but then when I'm next to someone cute, nice and slim, well then I feel all big and buffy with my big thighs and wide shoulders (I must say that I'm taller than everybody here so I'll always be bigger.... /forum/images/icons/crazy.gif )

You see? I'm proud of myself and my body (and I can jump on stage wearing a G-string without even thinking) but then again never really satisfied. Always another thing to do, another inch to loose (or a biceps to grow!! lol)

I guess it's just stronger than us. Maybe it's just us women....

[Krukker]

Very good topic Krypto.

I think I'm very fortunate to have a healthy body image and not to strict on myself. I do have weight goals and BF% goals but they are not strict at all - I want to be healthy and feel good #1!!

It makes me sad to see people being so hard on themselves and losing the reason for why they started bodybuilding to begin with. You see it all the time!! I do this lifestyle, eat the way I do, measure my food, count my calories/macronutrients, lift, and all this becuase I ENJOY it and I feel incredible! I do have a larger body frame than most my height so usually weigh more - but I have to say I've never been in as good as shape as I am in now. Yes I do have a way to go to reach my goals but if it takes years, months, who cares??

The question is - when women realize they are too obsessed how do you get out of that thinking??

Kate

<blockquote><font class="small">posted by MissMargaret:</font><hr /> <font color="blue"> ... I had decided in the late winter that I would cut for the Spring and then move to a bulking phase in September. But I was not sure where I should set my weight or my bf% to achieve that. Now I have a better idea of it. Thanks for this. It's been very helpful.

Miss M </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Same here. I recently decided that I'll cut til Oct 1st then bulk thru the end of February. Then I'll go back to cutting March - Sep. That article really opened up my eyes as well. Now I have a better idea of what numbers to expect as far as body fat goes when bulking. So my goal is going to be to not go above 19% body fat and shoot for 7-9 lbs of lean muscle by the end of February. I'm thinking that sounds reasonable, 7-9 lbs in 5 months. Or if I'm close but not quite there by March, then I will extend the bulk til the end of March.

<blockquote><font class="small">posted by Philia2:</font><hr /> ... but then when I'm next to someone cute, nice and slim, well then I feel all big and buffy with my big thighs and wide shoulders ...You see? I'm proud of myself and my body (and I can jump on stage wearing a G-string without even thinking) but then again never really satisfied. Always another thing to do, another inch to loose (or a biceps to grow!! lol)

I guess it's just stronger than us. Maybe it's just us women.... <hr /></blockquote>

Geesh, I feel like we're doing a spock mind meld here! My thoughts EXACTLY! I recently did some bikini contests which stomped my self-esteem into the ground as I got eliminated right away next to the other thin, petite, with big hooters type girls and I look all big and buff standing next to them, WAY more muscular (and lean). I felt really bad but then at the same time when I see these other skinny girls here in the gym, I feel strong and proud and I love it! And I STILL am not afraid to jump on a stage wearing a thong cause I know that even though I'm not a thin, petite woman with big hooters, at the same time I have nothing to be ashamed about! But at the same time I know there is still more work to be done as I'm STILL not satisfied. So I'm totally with ya girl! http://www.plauder-smilies.de/happy/xyxthumbs.gif

<blockquote><font class="small">posted by Krukker:</font><hr /> ...I do this lifestyle, eat the way I do, measure my food, count my calories/macronutrients, lift, and all this becuase I ENJOY it and I feel incredible! ...Yes I do have a way to go to reach my goals but if it takes years, months, who cares??

The question is - when women realize they are too obsessed how do you get out of that thinking??

Kate <hr /></blockquote>

EXACTLY! I know most of my family doesn't really understand why I do that, measuring of food, not eating carbohydrates etc, they only see it as depriving myself but I see it as something I enjoy, this is my LIFE, they don't understand that yet. They think I am putting myself thru all this JUST to be leaner (which they don't even think I need to be), which yes, I am but I will always eat this way cause I know where it has gotten me and that is what I WANT. I'd RATHER look the way I do and feel the way I do INSTEAD of eating a bunch of carbohydrates and junk food! It is the choice I WANT to take, I CHOOSE to eat this way cause I happen to like it. And I will keep working on getting the perfect body for the rest of my life cause I ENJOY it! I will keep lifting and eating like a full fledged bodybuilder til I die and that's just the way I CHOOSE to live cause it's what makes ME happy. Maybe some day my family will understand that, athlo I doubt it, for now they just accept it cause they've always accepted me for who I am. /forum/images/icons/cool.gif

[AHM]

Ah, a very interesting and timely thread! (love the new forum, can I say that one more time?) My family is always on me too, and others and again, it's a sense of self perfection. But also wanting to be where I am not yet. How will I know what I want or where I am really going until I get there? Best keep trying to! Hm, are most women bb'ers type A personalities do you think? What an interesting sociological study that would be!

For me, the bf% question has been tough because my measurements say one thing and online calculators say another, so I really have no clue where I am! I am getting caliper tested tomorrow and am very excited. I know it isn't perfect either, but I hope it gives me a little bit better sense of where I am (and therefore where I want to go!) I just know I want more muscle and less fat right now.

Yeah, it seems that way. I am most definitely a Type A personality, I am a perfectionist and very high strung. Incidentally, off topic but most of the descriptions of my zodiac sign (Virgo) also fit me, almost to a "t".

[AHM]

lol! My mom's a Virgo (which I think is why I act like one!) and my sister's partner is also one. Hmmmm....

[Philia2]

Geesh, I feel like we're doing a spock mind meld here! My thoughts EXACTLY! I recently did some bikini contests which stomped my self-esteem into the ground as I got eliminated right away next to the other thin, petite, with big hooters type girls and I look all big and buff standing next to them, WAY more muscular (and lean). I felt really bad but then at the same time when I see these other skinny girls here in the gym, I feel strong and proud and I love it! And I STILL am not afraid to jump on a stage wearing a thong cause I know that even though I'm not a thin, petite woman with big hooters, at the same time I have nothing to be ashamed about! But at the same time I know there is still more work to be done as I'm STILL not satisfied. So I'm totally with ya girl!
------------

That one was great........

People always make fun of me the way that I eat and they say it must be sad and no fun at all to eat so many times and reeeaally no junk food, ice cream etc Well I tell them that I don't suffer at all and I actually like the way that I eat (yesterday I ate a chicken sandwich at 3pm and my hubby's grandmother was looking and telling me that it really wasn't time to eat and didn't I eat lunch?!!!
Grrrrr I was dead starving! lol)

Then people say okey, she (me!) can do it since she is slim and does all that sport! Geeez, those guys really doesn't understand much do they? Ah well, it's their problem after all, why should I feel ashamed or have to hide myself every time that I have to eat?!!!
Why are people so obsessed by food?

I had a client bringing his girl to the gym the other day. She is 9 years old. Anyway she did 10 mins on the stair master and then said proudly that she can NOW eat another croissant since she has been doing sport!!
Hmmmmm something is wrong here, people just don't understand how our bodies work and how to eat. But what scares me the most is that they don't really care.....

Ah well, just my two cents.

<blockquote><font class="small">posted by ***********:</font><hr /> Look at the most successful pros - most of them really look...well...****ty in the off season.....who looks the best offseason ...Shawn Ray and others...that is why their contest weight hasn't gone upin 10 years.......perhaps Shawn does not "supplement" to the same extent as the others, but there is a correlation between off season bulk and onstage beef.
<hr /></blockquote>

The reason Shawn Ray stayed at 215lbs is because it was a conciuos decision on the part of symmetry. He did not want to play the size game, beacuse, at 5ft 7" he new his best look was 210-215lbs. Had nothing to do with wanting to stay 'hot' off season.

<blockquote><font class="small">posted by Mr O:</font><hr /> <blockquote><font class="small">posted by ***********:</font><hr /> Look at the most successful pros - most of them really look...well...****ty in the off season.....who looks the best offseason ...Shawn Ray and others...that is why their contest weight hasn't gone upin 10 years.......perhaps Shawn does not "supplement" to the same extent as the others, but there is a correlation between off season bulk and onstage beef.
<hr /></blockquote>

The reason Shawn Ray stayed at 215lbs is because it was a conciuos decision on the part of symmetry. He did not want to play the size game, beacuse, at 5ft 7" he new his best look was 210-215lbs. Had nothing to do with wanting to stay 'hot' off season. <hr /></blockquote>

I didn't write that, heck I don't know squat about the male professional bodybuilders. I copied that off another board.

<blockquote><font class="small">posted by Philia2:</font><hr /> Then people say okey, she (me!) can do it since she is slim and does all that sport! Geeez, those guys really doesn't understand much do they? ...

Anyway she did 10 mins on the stair master and then said proudly that she can NOW eat another croissant since she has been doing sport!! <hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, I get the same thing. Even worse is that some of my family TRIES to get me to cheat telling me one little donut won't hurt and I can afford it cause I'm thin. So I'm thinking, well why do you think I AM this thin?! Like duh. And the other thing, they don't understand, one donut WILL hurt me cause with me it's NEVER just ONE! One turns into two, then three, then four! And before I know it, I'm feeling guilty as all heck because I scarfed down a whole bag or box of something! For me it's just better not to have that one. And I sure get sick of explaining that to people sometimes!

What's scary is that I'd eat junk food then figure, ah well, I'll just go burn it off skating or on my nordic track now. And then I wondered why in the heck I couldn't get "toned". http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/rolleyes1.gif OMG, I could tell you some stories, like about how I used to drink spoonfuls of Hershey's chocolate syrup cause I figured it was okay cause it's fat free and I could just burn off the calories skating or something, LMAO!

<blockquote><font class="small">posted by ***********:</font><hr /> <blockquote><font class="small">posted by Mr O:</font><hr /> <blockquote><font class="small">posted by ***********:</font><hr /> Look at the most successful pros - most of them really look...well...****ty in the off season.....who looks the best offseason ...Shawn Ray and others...that is why their contest weight hasn't gone upin 10 years.......perhaps Shawn does not "supplement" to the same extent as the others, but there is a correlation between off season bulk and onstage beef.
<hr /></blockquote>

The reason Shawn Ray stayed at 215lbs is because it was a conciuos decision on the part of symmetry. He did not want to play the size game, beacuse, at 5ft 7" he new his best look was 210-215lbs. Had nothing to do with wanting to stay 'hot' off season. <hr /></blockquote>

I didn't write that, heck I don't know squat about the male professional bodybuilders. I copied that off another board. <hr /></blockquote>

I know you didnt write it, I am sorry if I gave the impression that I thought you did. I just thought I would clarify a little....sorry.

[sicily1962]

Krypto~ Very good article!!
I've been out of the loop for about a week...putting in extra hours at work and training....can't forget the training!

I agree, it's very hard to maintain a "sleek" look after competition.
I myself went from 131.5 (10.5%BF in Mid April) the day i competed to 135lbs as week after the comp and 14.5%BF! In Mid July i had risen to 19% BF gaining 5lbs of new muscle.

You know i went to see my trainer a week ago and had lost 4% but had maintained my mass and still weighed in @ 140.
Although i look lean, i still feel very big in comparison to the girls i see every day in my gym.

I myself, feel that it is very difficult to maintain lower BF% in the off season...especially for most of us that have always been a little heavier..I don't know if it's the body's way of going back to that comfort level.
I had a doctor once that told me that my body knows what it's best weight is and once you reach that weight it will maintain it.
I'm not sure how much fact there is in that, but i can tell you that when i have hit plateau's in the past, i have held them for quite some time ~ even as much as a year w/o any drastic measures.
There would have been no way i could have gained any muscle w/o good supplements and of course my good ol' peanut butter. ( I literally ate a jar a week!) And even though i dropped that 4% recently, i still indulged in the stuff in place of my flax and olive oil.
I'm addicted, i'll admit it!! /forum/images/icons/shocked.gif
I constantly get comments from people about how i eat and why i eat this way.
My own father said to me at Xmas last year ~ /forum/images/icons/confused.gif
"Marg, you know, men don't like all that muscle on women..you shouldn't be lifting so much weight!!"
I thought i would just die! I politely told him:
"None of the men i know think that way, and if he doesn't respect or appreciate what i do, then he's not worth my time anyway"
I truly do become tired of feeling as though i have to justify my lifestyle.

I do know however, that when this comp. comes to a conclusion in October, i will relax and enjoy myself for a while. I may even gain a few pounds, but i will be comfortable and continue my workouts. If i gain a few pounds..so be it. I know how to eat for life and i definately train hard enough to maintain what i have.

Whatever i continue to do (i joined a cycling club...to train for a century ride next spring!! See, i've been busy girls! lol!) I know that i will always do what's right for my body and for me. I like how i look and who i am.
Ultimately, my opinion is the only one that really counts anyway. /forum/images/icons/wink.gif

Margie

<blockquote><font class="small">posted by Mr O:</font><hr /> I know you didnt write it, I am sorry if I gave the impression that I thought you did. I just thought I would clarify a little....sorry. <hr /></blockquote>

No problem. Clarify away. /forum/images/icons/grin.gif

<blockquote><font class="small">posted by sicily1962:</font><hr /> Krypto~ Very good article!!
<hr /></blockquote>

Thanks! /forum/images/icons/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
I myself went from 131.5 (10.5%BF in Mid April) the day i competed to 135lbs as week after the comp and 14.5%BF! In Mid July i had risen to 19% BF gaining 5lbs of new muscle.<hr /></blockquote>

I have a feeling come Oct - Feb when I am working to put on muscle, that my bodyfat will go up to about 19% as well as I've noticed that whenever I let up off my diet just a little for long enough, that is right where my body goes back to and seems to stay there.

[ QUOTE ]
Although i look lean, i still feel very big in comparison to the girls i see every day in my gym.<hr /></blockquote>

You and me both! And especially in certain mirrors, I see myself as looking like a muscle monster, lol!

[ QUOTE ]
I had a doctor once that told me that my body knows what it's best weight is and once you reach that weight it will maintain it.
I'm not sure how much fact there is in that, but i can tell you that when i have hit plateau's in the past, i have held them for quite some time ~ even as much as a year w/o any drastic measures.<hr /></blockquote>

I totally believe that. I believe the body has a comfort level set by your genetics. Reason I think that is because I ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, go right back up to 140 lbs if I am not sticking to that Beverly diet to a "t"! And thruout this whole year that I've been cutting and writing my own diets, my body has maintained at 140 lbs even though I went from 22% body fat to 16.6%. I went on the Beverly diet for the 3 weeks before Nationals and got down to 136 but after a week of eating carbs for speed skating Nationals, I went right back up to, you guessed it, 140 lbs! And for one month last year I actually tried to bulk and I couldn't really get past 142 lbs. I have determined that my body LIKES being 139-142 lbs. I also think it is most comfortable at around 18-19% body fat as that is the level I seem to stabilize at. So for me to stay 15% or leaner, it's a fight all the time.

[ QUOTE ]
"Marg, you know, men don't like all that muscle on women..you shouldn't be lifting so much weight!!"
I thought i would just die! I politely told him:
"None of the men i know think that way, and if he doesn't respect or appreciate what i do, then he's not worth my time anyway"
I truly do become tired of feeling as though i have to justify my lifestyle.<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, my family kinda freaked a bit when I told them I'm wanting to put on 7 lbs of muscle this winter. My aunt was like, "you're not gonna get all bulky looking like some of those women are you?" So I was thinking, so what if I do. But then I told her that I would most likely have to take steroids to get all bulky looking and no that's not the look I'm going for, more of the fitness competitor look (altho I am already bigger than most of them but I didn't tell her that, not like she'd understand "figure").

[ QUOTE ]
Ultimately, my opinion is the only one that really counts anyway. /forum/images/icons/wink.gif
Margie <hr /></blockquote>

Word. http://www.plauder-smilies.de/happy/xyxthumbs.gif

[sicily1962]

girl you are too much like for for sure!!

I wish you all the luck in gaining your 7lbs, you should be able to do it with no problem....
I'm telling you~ the secret is peanut butter!!! lol! /forum/images/icons/smirk.gif

I saw your pics they are great! You worry too much, you have a great physic and adding to all that will be absolutely no problem!

As far as maintaining that 140 and 18-19% ~ ARE WE RELATED??? /forum/images/icons/grin.gif
I think so....somewhere back there in the relatives..there's a connection for sure! lol!

Have you see this month's issue of Muscle n Fitness?
there's a woman in there ~ she's 41 and weighs 140, a firefighter...
She looks incredible, and she's one inch shorter than me.
Just goes to prove...muscle is where it's at!!

lol!
Have a great day Krypto !
I'll be back when i get home from work.
margie