k_koolman's neverending bulk journal

[k_koolman]

Well, this is my first attempt at a journal, so I'll do what I can. I've been bulking at about 3000+ cals for the last 4-6 weeks. I've worked my way up to 3500 cals, and today is my first day at 3500, and so it begins! I've started a new training program called Max-OT. I got it from the AST Sports Sciences website. Any opinions regarding Max-OT and AST-SS are welcome, as are any opinions regarding my training and nutrition programs.

Max-OT means Maximum intensity in minimal time. Workouts are to be not much longer than 40 minutes, no more than 6-9 sets per muscle group, and for reps.....The idea is to attempt 6 reps each time, and if you can't reach six, go for 4-6 reps...A forced rep is allowed for the last rep if needed. I've been filling my workout with supersets and 21's for the previous phase of my bulk, so I figured I'd get back to basics...And thus, Max-OT.

The following are my nutrition and training programs. Feel free to comment.

Max-OT training schedule
===================
MONDAY: Chest/Back
3 sets of Flat bench press
2 sets of Dumbell flys
3 sets of Incline Bench
3 sets of Deadlifts
3 sets of Lat pulldown
2 sets of behind the neck barbell press


TUESDAY: Abs
Leg raises
Crunches
Twisting crunches
Reverse crunches
Limb extentions


WEDNESDAY:Shoulders/Traps
3 sets of front push presses
3 sets of Upright rows
3 sets of side laterals
3 sets of Hang Cleans
3 sets of Shrugs


THURSDAY: Legs
3 sets of Squats
2 sets of Leg Extensions
2 sets of Leg Curls
Seated calve raises
Smith machine calve raises

FRIDAY: Triceps/Biceps/Forearms
3 sets of curls with EZ curl bar
2 sets of concentration curls
2 sets of hammer curls
Behind the back barbell wrist curls
3 sets of Skull crushers
3 sets of Tricep press downs
3 sets of Dips

Saturday:Abs and rest
Leg raises- 30 reps
Crunches- 30 reps
Twisting crunches
Reverse crunches
Limb extentions

Sunday: Rest day

====
So as you can see, I've got chest/back today. I'll make sure to update with how the workout/day went, etc. after it all happens.


NUTRITION
==================
BREAKFAST:
1 multivitamin
1 vitamin C tablet
1 calcium/vitamin D tablet
1 cup OATMEAL- 300 cals
1 TBSP PB- 190 cals
22 grams of whey- 110 cals
1 cup milk 1% milk- 100 cals
CALS- 620
PROTEIN- 47g
CARBS- 60g
FAT- 29g

====================

MEAL 2:

PB Sandwich- 500 cals
Apple- 100 cals
1 1/2 cups milk- 150 cals
CALS- 750 cals
PROTEIN- 32g
CARBS-28g
FAT-27g
====================

MEAL3:
Tuna sandwich- 360 cals
1 1/2 cups milk- 150 cals
CALS- 510 cals
PROTEIN- 56g
CARBS- 30g
FAT- 5g
====================

MEAL 4:
1 cup OATMEAL- 300 cals
1 cup milk- 100 cals
22 grams of whey- 110
CALS- 510
PROTEIN- 38g
CARBS- 50g
FAT- 3g
====================

Meal 5- PRE-WORKOUT:
1 scoop Whey-110 cals
1 1/2 cup skim milk- 135 cals
5g Creatine
CALS- 245
PROTEIN- 30g
CARBS- 13g
========================

MEAL 6: (post workout)
2 scoops Whey- 220 cals
1 1/2 cup skim milk- 135 cals
5g Creatine
CALS- 355
PROTEIN- 52g
CARBS- 1g
FAT- 1g
====================

MEAL 7:
I plan on getting a good P/C/F ratio, and about 600-700 cals here. It's dinner,
so when my parents make it, it's tough to eat right, but I will make it happen!
====================

MEAL 8:
1 scoop whey- 110 cals
Protein- 22g

======================================
GRAND TOTAL:
3550 CALS
PROTEIN- 277g+dinner
CARBS- 213g or so
FAT- 65g+dinner

It may look at little sketchy, but I feel pretty good about it, albeit the lack of lean protein such as meat, etc. But I make sure to load up on it at dinner, and tuna is often a replacement for some of the protein shakes.

Um, that's it for now, I'll keep you updated with pics etc. throughout the bulk!

Train hard, eat hard, and get huge! Good luck to everyone else with their journals!

See ya.

[rianevans]

Hey dude, you are heading in the right direction with the training and whoever got you into Max-OT must be a pretty cool and smart dude /forum/images/icons/wink.gif , but you really have too many sets going on. Remember, you need to follow all the Max-OT guidelines. One of those guidelines is at least 2 minutes of rest between work sets. Another is keeping workouts under 40 minutes. See how you number of sets could/will be a problem? Also, flyes really don't allow for much overload, no isolation exercise does, so get rid of 'em! /forum/images/icons/smile.gif

[k_koolman]

Yeah, the guy who got me into Max-OT is a total monster! But yeah, I figured I had too many sets, but you know how it is, just thinking it's not enough, etc. The workout did go pretty long, but I'm sore as hell today. I'll probly change it next time around.

As for dumbell flys, different things work for different people, and I feel they've worked for me. It's a great exercise that packs mass on quickly to the pectorals. The focus is almost entirely on the stretching portion of the exercise, which expands the fasciae and allows for a greater muscular growth. (Good ol' ABC)

ANYWAY, I wasn't able to post yesterday, but I just thought I'd update, letting everyone know how my workout went. I did chest and back, and below is what I did.

MONDAY: Chest/Back
3 sets of Flat bench press
2 sets of Dumbell flys
3 sets of Incline Bench
3 sets of Deadlifts
3 sets of Lat pulldown
2 sets of behind the neck barbell press

I followed my meal plan flawlessly, and hopefully today will be just as good, in both nutrition and training.

Until next time!

Later everyone!

[Adam Knowlden]

Looks great so far!!

[k_koolman]

<blockquote><font class="small">posted by OldSchool:</font><hr /> Looks great so far!! <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks a lot Oldschool!

Time for an update! I went a bit below 3500 cals yesterday, but no biggy I guess /forum/images/icons/smile.gif. Today's workout is Shoulders and Traps. And I can't freakin' wait. I have a feeling this is gonna become one of my favorite workouts!

WEDNESDAY:Shoulders/Traps
3 sets of front push presses
3 sets of Upright rows
3 sets of side laterals
3 sets of Hang Cleans
3 sets of Shrugs

I'm looking to toadally PUNISH my Traps, and get some massive growth out of them in the next few weeks. My two favorite muscles are traps and tris by the way. I may change the number of sets before the workout, 'cause I can already tell it's gonna be too many. But we'll see what happens.

Yesterdays's (July 2nd, 2002's) ab workout went pretty well. The workout lasted about 25 mins, and I got two good sets of each exercise in. The workout is below.

TUESDAY: Abs
Leg raises
Weighted twisting crunches
Reverse crunches
Limb extentions

I had a nice six pack coming in a month or so ago, but having not worked the ol' abs for about that long, they seem to have diminished. So I'm starting the same way I originally got results, with weighted twisting crunches. Any size I ever got in my abs, I feel I owe it to those. Whether or not they actually contributed to it is anyone's guess though hehe.

I might go up to three sets next week, but I figured I'd go easy and get great form this time around, having not worked my abs for a while.

That's all for now, I'll let you know how today's workout went when I'm done!

Oh yeah, and one more thing, I'm still sore as hell from Monday's workout, and I love it!

All for now.

[rianevans]

Well, if you insist on doing the flys, which is cool if you feel they have worked for you, just do them as your last exercise so they don't attribute any fatigue and allow for less overload. I just stopped doing the flyes recently. They always got me hella sore, which was a nice feeling, but I feel I am better off just doing tons of bench press. I don't like isolation exercises, I go for compound whenever I can. I feel that isolation movements aren't very efficient for maximum muscle stimulation and limit the amount of overload one can use. Like you said though, different things work for different people, and that's very true. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. (I've seen this guys pecs in-person, good stuff!) Keep up the hard work!

[rianevans]

Oh, one more quick thing about the flys; get a good stretch on 'em, as it sounds like you are doing, but exaggerate the stretch because that places a lot of stress on your shoulder joints and could lead to injury. /forum/images/icons/frown.gif

[k_koolman]

Just a quick update. Yesterday's workout looked something like this:

WEDNESDAY:Shoulders/Traps
3 sets of front push presses
3 sets of Upright rows
3 sets of side laterals
3 sets of Hang Cleans
3 sets of Shrugs

The traps are sore today, so I'm obviously lovin' it hehe. The shoulder portion of the workout was ok, but I might look into some new shoulder exercises to put in there. I was impressed with my front push presses (standing, barbell), as I was able to up the weight. The same goes for hang cleans and shrugs. Only thing with shrugs is my freakin' grip giving out before my traps do! /forum/images/icons/smile.gif You all know what I'm talkin' about!

Anyway, today was GOING to be legs, but the weight room isn't open today....Hey, it IS the fourth of July, I guess I'll just try to have some fun, and stick with the meal plan today. Tomorrow we've got arms! And I'm ready as always to destroy 'em.

Later.

[k_koolman]

I just got done with a Bi/Tri/Forearm workout. It went pretty well I felt. I was completely drained after the workout. So much so, I seriously had trouble PULLING DOWN the seatbelt in my car. /forum/images/icons/smile.gif

FRIDAY: Triceps/Biceps/Forearms
3 sets of curls with EZ curl bar
2 sets of concentration curls
2 sets of hammer curls
Behind the back barbell wrist curls
2 sets of Skull crushers
4 sets of Tricep press downs
3 sets of Dips

The workout actually didn't last that long, so I was still within the Max-OT training guidelines I guess.

I'm planning on removing concentration curls from my Bicep workout. I don't know what it is, but they just don't really do it for me. Oh well.

Eating went well today.

I guess that sums it up for today. Later.

[rianevans]

<blockquote><font class="small">posted by k_koolman:</font><hr />
The workout actually didn't last that long, so I was still within the Max-OT training guidelines I guess. <hr /></blockquote>

Don't forget the rest 2-3 (2-5 during leg workouts) minutes between sets guideline.

[rianevans]

This journal is sadly defunct now, but I've been meaning to reply to this statement:

<blockquote><font class="small">posted by k_koolman:</font><hr />
As for dumbell flys, different things work for different people, and I feel they've worked for me. It's a great exercise that packs mass on quickly to the pectorals. The focus is almost entirely on the stretching portion of the exercise, which expands the fasciae and allows for a greater muscular growth. (Good ol' ABC)
<hr /></blockquote>

Alright, I've been trying to think of a response to this and after asking around and doing some reading I am absolutely sure that flys are one of the most worthless exercises around. Ready? Okay...

Fascia is connective tissue, it holds the bundles of muscle fibers (also known as striations) together and also holds the skin to the muscle. If you want to see fascia up close, take a look at the membrane that covers a chicken breast. That is the fascia, it is very, very thin and stretchy.

Fascia is a lot like skin, it grows to accommodate the growing underlying fibers. It isn't the other way around, muscle doesn't accommodate the fascia, so "stretching" the fascia would not accelerate muscle growth or make room for more muscle. Fascia is basically the "skin" of your muscles. Now, have you ever had to stretch your skin to accomodate more fat or muscle? No. It just happens on its own. There is need to try to stretch the fascia and no muscle building benefits to be gotten from it.

As for flys being a great exercise to pack on mass, flys are basically the same as bench press but the elbow movement and tricep involvement are eliminated. What does that translate to? Less overload, which means less muscle growth as a result. Try doing nothing but a variety of flys and pec deck for several weeks and see how much mass you pack onto your chest. /forum/images/icons/crazy.gif

Of course, I didn't come up with all, or really any of this, by myself. My good ol' bud and hero Eric Satterwhite passed this info onto me.

[k_koolman]

<blockquote><font class="small">posted by rianevans:</font><hr />Alright, I've been trying to think of a response to this and after asking around and doing some reading I am absolutely sure that flys are one of the most worthless exercises around. Ready? Okay...

Fascia is connective tissue, it holds the bundles of muscle fibers (also known as striations) together and also holds the skin to the muscle. If you want to see fascia up close, take a look at the membrane that covers a chicken breast. That is the fascia, it is very, very thin and stretchy.

Fascia is a lot like skin, it grows to accommodate the growing underlying fibers. It isn't the other way around, muscle doesn't accommodate the fascia, so "stretching" the fascia would not accelerate muscle growth or make room for more muscle. Fascia is basically the "skin" of your muscles. Now, have you ever had to stretch your skin to accomodate more fat or muscle? No. It just happens on its own. There is need to try to stretch the fascia and no muscle building benefits to be gotten from it.

As for flys being a great exercise to pack on mass, flys are basically the same as bench press but the elbow movement and tricep involvement are eliminated. What does that translate to? Less overload, which means less muscle growth as a result. Try doing nothing but a variety of flys and pec deck for several weeks and see how much mass you pack onto your chest. /forum/images/icons/crazy.gif <hr /></blockquote>

This all goes back to Old School VS. New School theories, but no one can argue with the muscular results of those who have been known to utilize fascial stretching to the fullest. Those like Tom Platz, and the Austrian Oak himself! These were some of the pioneers of fascial stretching, and who's to say their muscles' impressive size, SEPARATION, and overall looks weren't some of the most impressive in BB-ing's history?

"Every muscle is made up of 1000s of muscle fibers. These muscle fibers are all individually wrapped with a connective tissue wrapping, or a sheathe. This is called the endomysium. These individual muscle fibers are then organized in bundles( called fascicles ) which are covered by another connective tissue sheathe called the perimysium. These bundles or fascicles are then placed together in an orderly arrangement( which determines the shape and functionality of the muscle ) and held in place by a layer of connective tissue known as the epimysium. Finally each of these layers is held together by the deep fascia( a courser material ). The connective tissue of every muscle fiber acts like a girdle of sorts. Which means that it binds a muscle group together, and to its neighboring muscle in many cases. It also protects, organizes and allows the force of contraction generated by the thousands of muscle fibers in a particular group, to be harnessed with great efficiency!"


"Fascial stretching allows for a greater capacity for growth, a fuller muscle, and greater separation between body parts!"

"The important thing to understand is this: Connective tissue is not only a tuff material, but also hugs tight to its surrounding area, almost constricting it! What does this have to do with muscle growth you say? Think about it for a moment. In order for a muscle to hypertrophy( grow ), what needs to take place if it is restricted by this tight binding girdle? The tissue must stretch and become more pliable right?! If this did not occur, then muscle growth would be hindered( you cannot grow unless there is enough room to do so)!"

Now, of course, the connective tissue already does this naturally, otherwise we wouldn't be able to grow AT ALL. But fascial stretching (as already said) can provide greater room for growth, and less constriction of your muscles' growth. More importantly, it enhances separation between muscles.

With fascial stretching, "You were no longer fighting the restrictions of tight, unpliable fascia, but rather a more elastic and pre-expanded connective tissue! Essentially all bets are off, due to the amount of room you have to grow! More room to grow enables more mass to be accumulated!"

The same also goes for Muscle Memory, but that's a whole nother deal, unless I explained a scenario, which is ALREADY found in Jacob Wilson's great article on Fascial Stretching, along with EVERY other quote I've used in this post.

As I said, this is just a case of Old School theories VS. New School Theories, and the philosophies of one experienced bodybuilder's to those of ANOTHER experienced bodybuilder, so no one can really be proven wrong. I just though I'd share some thoughts though....And I couldn't help but take some quotes from Mr. Wilson's article, seeing as how I was reading it when I came upon this post! /forum/images/icons/smile.gif

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/magazine/fascialstretching.htm

A GREAT article that I had been anxiously awaiting the arrival of...And whaddya know, it had already been finished.

I was gonna add some more about the separation of muscles idea, but one might as well read the article, so I don't go posting the whole **** thing on here! /forum/images/icons/smile.gif

I guess that's it...

[rianevans]

Well, new school vs. old school, in this case anyway, IS about right vs. wrong. Now, I don't know who's right or wrong yet, but we are talking science here and with science there is right and wrong.

As far as the great BBers using these techniques, these guys weren't using steriods by any chance, were they? Steroids change A LOT of things. Now, I don't know if steroids do anything as far as fascia goes, but for the sake of the argument let's apply what we say here to natural bodybuilders only, guys like you and me. I really have nothing against steroids (not the point), but steroids overide and change so many things factors, the pros can do a lot of things that we'd never be able to do.

Let's not get into seperation, not yet anyway. Let's stick to fascia and how it affects (or doesn't affect) muscle growth.

You've given me a lot to work with my friend. It may take a day or two, but I will be back! MUHAHAHA!

Looks like I'll have to do some more reading and asking around. Boy, learning is fun! /forum/images/icons/tongue.gif

[LAM]

Regarding your diet...

I would cut down on the milk consumption. Despite popular belief it is not easily digested by human adults due to the destruction of many necessary enzymes in the pasteurization process. It can hamper the absorption of other proteins digested in the meal as the undigested milk proteins putrefies in the human digestive tract, clogging the intestines.

you would do more better adding some complex carbs like soy beans, red lentils and chickpeas. they take longer to digest and do not cause blood sugar or insulin to rise as milk does.

your macros while bulking should be close to 30/50/20 - protein/carbs/fats

good luck !

[Dave.]

For your back day, now this is just me, but I would suggest putting in some bent over rows. Just to get a good mass builder in there.

[k_koolman]

Well, unfortunately, I've quit this journal, and changed most of my workouts and stuff. My meal plan still looks basically the same, with maybe a few little tweaks.

Hey, thanks for checking and sharing your comments though! I've been wondering whether or not I SHOULD incorporate some upright rows into my routine.

As for this whole pectoral debate...

"One of the greatest scientists the sport of bodybuilding has ever known is D.J. Millward. He has made some of the most incredible break throughs in hypertrophy training and like John Parillo and many other experts uses a technique similar to fascia stretching. Only D J Millward calls this revolutionary technique the bag expansion theory. You see, the connective tissue surrounding a muscle is often referred to as a bag, hence the title of the theory."

Well, there's the SCIENCE for ya lol. I'm really not concerned enough with the debate to get much more info, because you can simply read Jacob Wilson's article. BUT, if I get around to it, I may look for some more stuff on these scientists' (see above) studies. Who knows?

Laterz..

[k_koolman]

Um, I found this:

http://www.musclemedia.com/training/abcde/v59_abc2.asp

Just do a "find" when you get there, under the name D.J. Millward.

If you begin reading from that paragraph, there's some very interesting info on Millward and Parillo's studies.

I'd like to point this out, though...Although it's basically taking a shot at myself, it pertains to this discussion.

"Parillo's theory is that you stretch the fascia around the muscle which, according to him, is limiting muscle growth. However, research supports the idea that the endomysium and perimysium are involved in this limitation of growth--not necessarily the fascia."

Now, he says not NECESSARILY the fascia. But each of those tissue are layered anyway, so we're still pretty much talking the same thing here.

Anyway, there's so much good stuff in that article, I didn't wanna quote the whole **** thing, so everyone'll just have to check it out for themselves.

All for now.

[rianevans]

<blockquote><font class="small">posted by k_koolman:</font><hr /> Um, I found this:

http://www.musclemedia.com/training/abcde/v59_abc2.asp
<hr /></blockquote>

Oh c'mon man...referring me to Muscle Media! You've got to be kidding me, right? What's next, MuscleTech ads for Cell-Tech and Hydroxycut as a source? Muscle Media is probably the number one source of pseudo-science in all of the world. I don't really consider Wilson to be an authority on the subject either, though I suppose he could be when you consider it is more of a non-subject.

Alright now, back to our discussion/debate about fascial stretching...

[ QUOTE ]
"These bundles or fascicles are then placed together in an orderly arrangement (which determines the shape and functionality of the muscle )"<hr /></blockquote>

Actually, the overall shape of the muscle is determined by the point of origin and insertion. Each muscle has a classification as to the arrangement of the individual fibers and that determines how it can place an action on a bone. So yes, the fascicle orientation has an affect on the specific direction of a muscle group. i.e., the bicep vs the "feather like" muscle of the quads.

Secondly, this type of connective tissue has nothing to do with its contractile properties. Z-lines, h zone, sarcomeres, actin, myosin, tryptosin, Ca+ channels, etc. (this isn't something we want to get into), but the orientations of the fibers affect how it acts on a bone and that's it.

[ QUOTE ]
"Fascial stretching allows for a greater capacity for growth, a fuller muscle, and greater separation between body parts" <hr /></blockquote>

As I said before, it is stretchy. It is not a fibrous connective tissue at all. By now we should all know that separation of muscles and muscle fibers is a matter of lower body fat. Think for a second, how do stretching a tissue make muscles separate? Fascia is not restrictive, its connective.

[ QUOTE ]
"The important thing to understand is this: Connective tissue is not only a tuff material, but also hugs tight to its surrounding area, almost constricting it!"<hr /></blockquote>

This is so far off the ball. There are literary dozens of classifications of connective tissue and they all range in how "hard" they are. It goes from Bone to blood. Yes blood is a connective tissue and you can imagine how many types are in between that range. It has to do with the amount of collagen in the particular tissue.

[ QUOTE ]
"With fascial stretching, "You were no longer fighting the restrictions of tight, unpliable fascia, but rather a more elastic and pre-expanded connective tissue! Essentially all bets are off, due to the amount of room you have to grow! More room to grow enables more mass to be accumulated!"<hr /></blockquote>

Again, fascia is elastic in nature, and if you were some how able to over stretch it, your muscle would come apart at the seams. If this theory is really true, anyone could be a 400 lb. monster in no time.

[ QUOTE ]
"More importantly, it enhances separation between muscles." <hr /></blockquote>

Could you explain how a membrane a couple nanometers thick would affect muscle separation more than the skin or the multiple layers of adipose (fat) cells on top of all of that muscle?

[ QUOTE ]
"Think about it for a moment. In order for a muscle to hypertrophy( grow ), what needs to take place if it is restricted by this tight binding girdle?" <hr /></blockquote>

Tell that to someone with a pituitary tumor. Whoever is writing this garbage seem to think that all connective tissue is hard and constrictive, and simply put, it's not.

This is a load of crap in the crock pot and it is stewin' big time! Sure you don't want to try only isolation exercises and fascial stretching for 12 weeks and watch your chest explode with newfound gains!?

[k_koolman]

If you took the time to read Jacob Wilson's article, you'd have noticed that the results of fascial stretching (among other techniques) have been PROVEN to work. And I'm sure Mr. Wilson himself would be insulted at the fact that someone sees his work was a bunch of poppy****. The time, the money, and all the energy he's put into ABCbodybuilding.com far more than proves the man knows what he's talking about.

And the fact that I MYSELF, among others have seen results from having flys in my routine has got to me something....Hasn't it? Or maybe the truth is that NO exercises work! Maybe training hard, and eating right has NOTHING to do with muscle growth! /forum/images/icons/wink.gif

Unfortunately this post has turned into a discussion about fascial stretching, and questioning the validity of shocking techniques and Jacob Wilson's philosophies, rather than keeping with the original topic of the benefits of performing dumbell flys. OBVIOUSLY dumbell flys aren't as beneficial as say bench press...BUT saying that an exercise just doesn't work? THAT's poppy****. We could sit around and bench all day, we could sit around and do barbell curls all day. But is that going to be as beneficial for the chest, and for our biceps as adding dumbell flys, and hammer curls to the routine? Of course not. It's just smart training to hit muscles from every possible angle. And there are different exercises that do it....Dumbell flys is just one of those exercises.

Jacob Wilson says one thing....Eric Satterwhite says another. Who's to say who's right? Neither one is going to give up, and the same goes here. I hope I've settled the Old School/New School thing in both posts it's involved in....'Cause the truth is, for all we know, NO ONE IS RIGHT. Dumbell flys have worked for me and others, it's been proven through scientific electromiography, and MRI scans...AS has fascial stretching..Thus, deeming them both beneficial, AND scientifically possible.

"Can a person with 12 inch arms get 16 inch arms without stretching the connective tissue? Exactly, it is not only possible, but again a fact."

A guy once told me "All techniques that have had success, have merrit"...So I'll stop attacking new school philosophies.....At this point, I think I've successfully MIXED UP my thoughts on this post with my thoughts on the "Stirring Things Up" post...So I'm done. No more posts on here for me.

I'm also tired of looking stuff up!! /forum/images/icons/smile.gif

Later.

[rianevans]

Agree to disagree, I guess. And no, I don't take most of what Jacob Wilson writes to be worth a thing. Nothing personal, so please don't kick me off ABC Jake! /forum/images/icons/shocked.gif I love these forums too much.

I guess the views really are two different to really be discussed. I mean, I guess we are both kind of extreme in our "beliefs" and extremists aren't really ever going to see eye to eye or even attempt to see the other side.

For the record, and I guess this is obvious, I don't believe one bit of this fascial stretching stuff. I think it is nothing but pseudo-science that sounds impressive to joe weightlifter. However, you and I are both way out of league here, so for now I guess we can let the big boys argue it and get back to this when we ARE the big boys. /forum/images/icons/smile.gif

As for flys, I never said they didn't work, I just think they have no place in the routine of a person who's goal is maximal muscle gain. Once again, it is old school vs new. I read about all these "shocking techniques", super-sets, drop-sets, etc., etc., and I just think it is utter crap. I don't believe we need to awkward exercise to hit the muscles at awkward angles to produce growth, we need maximal fiber recruitment. Flys have their place in sport specific training and rehab, but I don't see the point in doing a set of flys when you could put a set of bench press in their place. Of course, that is just ME and my new school guns.

Thanks for the good debate. I wonder if anybody else read this stuff besides for you and me. /forum/images/icons/confused.gif

You should start the journal up again, just with whatever routine you are using now. Mine is gonna start up soon, I figure it will be easier to update then the Geocities one (it take soooooooo long to load on my comp).

Alright, have a good one bud.

[k_koolman]

Trueness... It woulda been nice, and hell, maybe helpful if some other people had read this. Oh well! /forum/images/icons/wink.gif

Anyway, Yeah, I think I'm gonna start a whole new journal, since this one's filled with...Well...Not journal stuff.

'Cause it DOES make things a lot easier, and keeps me on track better as well.